Ben Shelton on thu 22 jul 04
I have been pondering making a small high fire reduction kiln and
would like to explore the use of waste veggie oil as the fuel.
Is there anyone out there that is currenly doing this?
What are your experiences?
Thanks, Ben
Scott Paulding on thu 22 jul 04
Hi Ben,
I've never heard of frenchfry oil used for kiln fuel, but you may ger some info
here on post-processing of the oil:
http://www.biodiesel.org/
This site is mostly related to cars though.
The closest this I could find was heating your home with biodiesel
http://www.biodiesel.org/markets/hom/default.asp
and some general info:
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/
Is this what you are looking for?
-scott
--- Ben Shelton wrote:
> I have been pondering making a small high fire reduction kiln and
> would like to explore the use of waste veggie oil as the fuel.
>
> Is there anyone out there that is currenly doing this?
> What are your experiences?
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
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Darnie Sizemore on thu 22 jul 04
Ben,
You might want to see if the NCECA site has any info on this. I know there was a speaker this year that spoke on that very topic. I think her name was Kira.
Darnie
Ben Shelton wrote:
I have been pondering making a small high fire reduction kiln and
would like to explore the use of waste veggie oil as the fuel.
Is there anyone out there that is currenly doing this?
What are your experiences?
Thanks, Ben
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Bandy on thu 22 jul 04
Hi,
I just took a class on kiln building and according to my professor, you can
use any oil product to increase the temperature of the kiln. He did not say
you can use it exclusively though. He used an oil drip in his a wood fired
kiln with great sucess.
One student planed to use french fry oil to increase the temperature of her
updraft kiln.
Sincerely, Cherie Bandy
Nevada City, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Shelton"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: french fry oil as kiln fuel
> I have been pondering making a small high fire reduction kiln and
> would like to explore the use of waste veggie oil as the fuel.
>
> Is there anyone out there that is currenly doing this?
> What are your experiences?
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
william schran on thu 22 jul 04
Ben wrote:>I have been pondering making a small high fire reduction kiln and
would like to explore the use of waste veggie oil as the fuel.<
I have a vague recollection of an article, perhaps in CM, a while ago
about somebody doing just this. I would imagine one could set up a
drip feed burner as is done with fuel oil.
Ha - found it! - here's the link:
http://www.ceramicsmonthly.org/richcontent.asp
Scroll down the page to: Firing with Vegetable Oil by John Britt
You'll need to log in to read the article.
I also discovered this site for those interested in
conservation/alternative fuel uses:
http://www.geocities.com/wastewatts/
Bill
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 22 jul 04
Try a google search such as "waste oil heater plans"
Many sites, references and so on...
Phil
el ve
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 23 jul 04
Dear Ben Shelton,
How this waste oil from any source is used depends on the burner
system you choose to employ. This choice may be governed by the
temperature at which the oil sets solid.
If you can give more information about your intentions and the state
of the oil you may get better information.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ben Shelton on fri 23 jul 04
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:29:34 +0930, Ivor and Olive Lewis
wrote:
>Dear Ben Shelton,
>How this waste oil from any source is used depends on the burner
>system you choose to employ. This choice may be governed by the
>temperature at which the oil sets solid.
>If you can give more information about your intentions and the state
>of the oil you may get better information.
>Best regards,
>Ivor Lewis.
>Redhill,
>S. Australia.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ivor,
I was hoping to use the canola oils from the fryers of local restaurants in
a forced air, electric spark ignition system like a home furnace running on
fuel oil.
The advantage is of course the cost of the fry oil (FREE almost).
Anyway, I had hoped that I would find someone who was using this fuel
source to learn from.
Thanks
Ben
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 24 jul 04
Dear Ben Shelton,
Providing your oil is sufficiently fluid so that it becomes well
atomised then I foresee no reason why you should no proceed with your
intentions. There might be a problem in very cold weather. Some
cooking oils polymerise when used for prolonged periods at their
working temperatures. So they set in cold or frosty weather.
For some years I ran a kiln on light fuel oil but used blocks of
ceramic fibre soaked in kero as igniters, a ploy which worked well.
Good luck with this venture.
Best regards,
> I was hoping to use the canola oils from the fryers of local
restaurants in
> a forced air, electric spark ignition system like a home furnace
running on
> fuel oil.
> The advantage is of course the cost of the fry oil (FREE almost).
> Anyway, I had hoped that I would find someone who was using this
fuel
> source to learn from.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ben
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ben on sun 25 jul 04
Hi All,
I haven't followed all these posts so hopefully this isn't redundant. =
Aside from the issues of filtering and fluidity there is another =
significant difference between vegetable/animal oils and petroleum oil. =
That is that it contains a substantial fraction of water. Now this may =
or may not be a hindrance to high temperature firings. It might even =
have some interesting potentential in view of recent post on "water =
cracking" (which I only had time to skim).=20
There are two schools in the whole biodeisel realm
One: There is a process of removing the water fraction which utilises =
caustic soda and methanol and produces glycerin (the water fraction) as =
a valuable by product. While it is possible to set this up on a small =
scale I wouldn't personally want to handle these caustics on a regular =
basis. This is the direction of the commercials endeavors and produces =
an oil in every way synonymous with "deisel"
Two: Use it raw. The disadvantage of using the unrefined oil in =
deisel engines is that by it self, it gums up the injectors. This may =
apply to you oil gun. The way around it for trucks etc. is to have a =
secondary tank with commercial diesel which is used until the motor is =
hot and then switch over to unrefined fryer oil and again back to =
refined fuel for five minutes before shutting off. This eliminates any =
problems in an engine. I tend to think it might also involve a higher =
flash point for the fuel because of the water fraction. But this is a =
very effective method which also might apply to your oil gun. You =
might try talking to the folks at www.greasel.com in southern Missouri. =
There experience in mostly automotive applications but I bet they could =
give you a pretty clear sense on the mechanical issues of running it =
through an oil gun. I'd be surprised if they haven't done it a some =
point. But the ceramic application - that water in the fuels a high =
temp... I hope somebody on the list will comment on that.
Peace,
Ben
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 26 jul 04
Hi Ben,
Nice mentions...
I am not up-to-speed on all this, as I am waiting to move to
do the crash-course on it.
My own thoughts ( for a Heating system and for a Kiln) had
been to utilize a blend of disused Cooking Oils and disused
Crankcase Oils and to add some thinner of some kind such as
maybe 10 percent Kerosene. This mix being also allowed to
settle after an initial filtering...and to be subject to a
second filtering as would defer to the diameter of the
orifices of the respective burners. Do a hundred or two
hundred Gallons at a time or
something...
I would want to experiment to see how these would behave as
far as sitting-settleing for some period of time...would
they seperate into layers and specific gravities? Or...?
And if so, would I syphon off down to a certain area?
Would I syphon off down to the last, or bottom-most area,
and
not use that bottom-most layer? - or just stirr the stuff in
some automatic way
to keep it from settleing into layers...
Anyway..I will find out I suppose...
Seems a worthy avenue to learn about and explore...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben"
Hi All,
I haven't followed all these posts so hopefully this isn't
redundant. Aside from the issues of filtering and fluidity
there is another significant difference between
vegetable/animal oils and petroleum oil. That is that it
contains a substantial fraction of water. Now this may or
may not be a hindrance to high temperature firings. It
might even have some interesting potentential in view of
recent post on "water cracking" (which I only had time to
skim).
There are two schools in the whole biodeisel realm
One: There is a process of removing the water fraction
which utilises caustic soda and methanol and produces
glycerin (the water fraction) as a valuable by product.
While it is possible to set this up on a small scale I
wouldn't personally want to handle these caustics on a
regular basis. This is the direction of the commercials
endeavors and produces an oil in every way synonymous with
"deisel"
Two: Use it raw. The disadvantage of using the
unrefined oil in deisel engines is that by it self, it gums
up the injectors. This may apply to you oil gun. The way
around it for trucks etc. is to have a secondary tank with
commercial diesel which is used until the motor is hot and
then switch over to unrefined fryer oil and again back to
refined fuel for five minutes before shutting off. This
eliminates any problems in an engine. I tend to think it
might also involve a higher flash point for the fuel because
of the water fraction. But this is a very effective method
which also might apply to your oil gun. You might try
talking to the folks at www.greasel.com in southern
Missouri. There experience in mostly automotive
applications but I bet they could give you a pretty clear
sense on the mechanical issues of running it through an oil
gun. I'd be surprised if they haven't done it a some point.
But the ceramic application - that water in the fuels a high
temp... I hope somebody on the list will comment on that.
Peace,
Ben
Ben Shelton on tue 27 jul 04
I did see a mention about a really cool settling method.
In a LARGE tank you can use a supply of air bubble to settle out sediment.
The set up was like this.
At the end of an air hose the site author used a bench grinder wheel (with
the center hole plugged) built into a small housing. This wheel/housing was
hooked up to a compressed air line and the air was forced through the
porous wheel into the bottom of the oil container. The result is a million
tiny bubbles. These bubbles take away part of the bouyancy of the oil and
allow the sediment to settle out faster. Cool huh?
I also saw that you can mix water in with your oil, agitate well, settle,
then decant the oil (it will separate out into a layer, you know, oil and
water dont mix). If you mix with water and add the bubbleator is should
really speed up the whole settling process.
Food for thought.
I don't have any good info on filters. I assume that a large paper cone
would work if the paper is the right type.
Great discussion, Ben
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