pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 26 jul 04
Hi Ivor,
Hmmmm...oweing to the presence of the dreaded P.C.B.s...? -
I 'spose your right...
What may we imagine to be their disposition in settling
out? - or, in settleing, to occupy a general layer in
sympathy with their specific gravity? Or is there something
as may precipitate them ? - allowing for a handy removal and
donation maybe, to one's favorite political party or
something?
...any ideas?
The residual Lithium would be fine with me for whatever
effects I may like in my Glazes...so that part is
allrighty...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
> Dear Phil,
> Dilution with a virgin light oil seems to be the way to
go.
> Discarded Lube oil from IC engines is a health hazard.
Check the
> literature.
> The Lithium soap content makes for a wonderful
unanticipated glaze on
> bag wall kiln bricks.
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis.
> Redhill,
> S. Australia.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 27 jul 04
Hi Ivor,
Thank you...
Below and amid...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
> Dear Phil,
> I think the way to go is to either set up your own
fractional
> distillation plant and analytical lab or use very thick
gloves and a
> perfect respirator at all times.
Oh...sounds way too complicated and too expensive, and too
bulky
and so on just to run my Stove and Kiln and maybe
some Furnace for smelting.
I prefer instead, some low-tech fun-n-friendly thing I can
do, something sensible and not too fussy...which is
kinda-like the whole point of my being interested at all,
too...!
...when earlier you'd said...
>ps.Do you know how to test your recycled crank case lube
oil for "Dioxins".
I thought that infered you DID know, and would tell me, or,
that you were going
to recommend
some method...
Do you know? Have you a method to recommend?
> I chose to forget about using this stuff even though our
Council had
> several 50 gal drums on their storage lot. Used it once
before I
> learned about the hazards. Once was enough to learn about
its
> behaviour.
What 'hazards'?
Hazards in what context?
What 'behaviour'?
Behavoiur in what context?
...did it act like liquid 'Helium' or something?
...'Behaviour', meaning...?
Please be specific so I may understand...
> On the other hand, using the old fashioned Two Drum
Sand/Clay filter
> might help to get rid of the resinous stuff.
Well...so would letting it 'sit' a while...
I remember fellows in the 1950s and '60s, as used to save
used Crankcase Oil and let it settle in glass gallon
jugs...in a few months, it was all 'clear' and pale-amber
but for the lowest layers as were maybe 1/8 inch thick at
most. Now,
I do not recall them resorting to 'Barrels of Sand' or
other,
to do this...so...
> But then you are left
> with the problem of getting rid of the contaminated sand.
I do not think I should resort to barrels of 'sand' or
other, but, instead, to allow Gravity to settle matters
gently and uncomplicatedly enough...and to decant...
I will dispose of the lowermost 'sludge' in an appropriate
manner, you may be sure...
I shall also refrain from getting either the 'sludge' or the
subsequently
'pale-amber' Oil on myself, which, as an able Cook, and
House Painter, and sometimes Roof Tar applicant,
and so on, I have allways seemed able to do...so here as
well, with 'this', I shall abide as ever...not to 'wear'
it...
> Might make
> the aftermath of Thanks Giving at Alice's Restaurant seem
like a
> Sunday school tea part !
Well...this shall not be a consideration for me...nor shall
I
imbibe Hash-Brownies or Mary-Jane Brownines when working on
this...
In fact, I never liked Arlo Guthrie all that much anyway,
and 'Alice
B. Toklas' if you ever saw her, was enough to scare one
well away from any desire to accidently associate her visage
with ANY
kind of possible 'drug' (OR culinary) experience. I am
getting
queasy just thinking about it now...oh hell, where's that
old bottle of Drammimine now that I need it???
...dammit, now you got me thinking about Gertrude Stein as
well...I will be HAUNTED!!! Eeeeeek! The three of 'em, faces
floating kalidescopically in the ether and so
on...'Brownies' in their outstretched wiggley
hands...gesturing at me...eeeeeesh...maybe I should burn
some 'Sage' or something? Any Wikens here? Help me out
please!!!!
> Stick with the discarded Cafe oil.
Or anyway, I
shall be very 'c-a-r-e-f-u-l' about the from whooooooom I do
get
my 'Oil'...uhhh-huh...
Now I am getting scared, where the 'dioxins' and so on did
not worry me near as bad...( don't they have that nice sort
of
'nutty' flavor anyway? Kind of like 'hypo' on one's
succulent finger tips when one used to
do Black-n-White prints?)
But anyway...
I do want to learn to do this you know, and to do so,
as I set out TO do it, meaning in a low-tech and straight
forward way..
After all, I am interested TO do this to stay 'warm' should
I be in a colder clime, and, or, to fire my Kiln or other
purpose-furnaces in an affordable way.
Maybe I shall find out how...maybe not...and...either
way...I will have had fun. I will experiment and ask
questions and see what I can find out...
If the 'dioxins' and the "P.C.B.s" should turn out through
some way of influenceing them, or on their own, to occupy
certain layers of specific gravity of the soup, then I
should find it easy enough to remove them and discard them
in some kind and considered way...
Otherwise, or as well, I shall see what I may learn about
how to get them to oblige...or, I shall decide that the
amount OF them, being maybe not much more than say what is
in 'Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" (or Michigan "Milk" ) and the
hell with worrying
about them at all...
Afterall, I am not eating this, I am
burning it with compressed air atomizers and at very high
heat...and with a nice long Chimney too...whilst all the
diesel busses and trucks and many non-diesel cars with worn
'rings' and valve-seats, 'burn' oil all day
long, do they not? - And all them jetplanes in their way...
They do 'here'...and all them 'powercompanies' burning soft
coal and so on...
..sigh...
> Best regards,
> Ivor.
Likewise!
Phil
el ve
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 27 jul 04
Dear Phil,
I think the way to go is to either set up your own fractional
distillation plant and analytical lab or use very thick gloves and a
perfect respirator at all times.
I chose to forget about using this stuff even though our Council had
several 50 gal drums on their storage lot. Used it once before I
learned about the hazards. Once was enough to learn about its
behaviour.
On the other hand, using the old fashioned Two Drum Sand/Clay filter
might help to get rid of the resinous stuff. But then you are left
with the problem of getting rid of the contaminated sand. Might make
the aftermath of Thanks Giving at Alice's Restaurant seem like a
Sunday school tea part !
Stick with the discarded Cafe oil.
Best regards,
Ivor.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 27 July 2004 11:39
Subject: Re: french fry fuel as kiln oil - Ivor's mention...
> Hi Ivor,
>
>
> Hmmmm...oweing to the presence of the dreaded P.C.B.s...? -
> I 'spose your right...
>
> What may we imagine to be their disposition in settling
> out? - or, in settleing, to occupy a general layer in
> sympathy with their specific gravity? Or is there something
> as may precipitate them ? - allowing for a handy removal and
> donation maybe, to one's favorite political party or
> something?
>
> ...any ideas?
>
> The residual Lithium would be fine with me for whatever
> effects I may like in my Glazes...so that part is
> allrighty...
>
>
>
> Phil
> el ve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
>
> > Dear Phil,
> > Dilution with a virgin light oil seems to be the way to
> go.
> > Discarded Lube oil from IC engines is a health hazard.
> Check the
> > literature.
> > The Lithium soap content makes for a wonderful
> unanticipated glaze on
> > bag wall kiln bricks.
> > Best regards,
> > Ivor Lewis.
> > Redhill,
> > S. Australia.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ben on wed 28 jul 04
Some thoughts on fuels and sustainability:
>Stick with the discarded Cafe oil.<
All the way. Just don't eat the french fries.
Waste oil is full of all kinds of nasty stuff.=20
But Canola's not much better (at least not to eat). They used to call =
it rapeseed oil but everyone knew it was inedible so in the forties or =
fifties somebody came up with a great marketing ploy and renamed it =
Canola- for Canada oil as it's grown extensively up there. It's better =
for industrial lube, polymer base or - fuel. Was it George Washington =
Carver who came up with 140something uses for peanut oil? Most of them =
were essentially homegrown plastics. But Fuel : most of the inhabitable =
earth revcieves an average of 300W per square meter during full =
sunlight. 400w peak in the summer. per square meter!!!!!!!! I dont =
think man has touched a solar collector/converter that's more efficient =
than a plant. (the wood firers are just waiting for us to catch on.) =
Even that petrol's just stored sunlight... anyway
If you dig into it the Germans have an optimum blend of biofuel oil. =
Certain percentage each of Safflower, Canola, Sunflower etc. The =
Italians have done extensive research on oil crop as far as gallons per =
acre and input costs. I think they concluded sunflower was the best and =
canola was an enviromental hazard based on a high nitrogen requirement =
(i.e. hosing the fields down with ammonia every year. oh dear this is =
starting to sound like Science)=20
Actually Rudolph Deisel designed the engine named after him so the =
farmer could grow his own fuel. They really teched this out. They even =
have a blend for lubrication. But.. this'll grab you.. Rudolph Deisel =
was a German Nationalist. His motive: to free the fatherland from =
dependence on foreign oil and unstable mid east(read:global) politics. =
Sound familiar? So after WWII everthing stalled out because.... =
unstable, or rather semi stabilised, mid east(read:global) politics.
So guess who' investing in biodeisel now? besides Ford & Co.? Monsanto. =
They'd really like to expand their market for tofu, oops I mean gmo soy =
oil. But it's not a political issue, it's not corporate conspiracy. =
It's the colllective expression of all our wants, desires, choices and =
actions.
Pull up at the pump swipe your card lot's of happy hippies in their =
veggie volkswagens.
Totally oblivious.
Today we make choices. Today we do actions.
Respectfully,
An Ode to Phil=20
(who is extremely perceptive of the nature of the beast)
(and Science)
Ben
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 29 jul 04
Dear Phil,
It is more than fifty years since I did any Organic Analysis so I do
not know what is done in that field today. I recall it was exciting.
Mixing flammable fluids with raw sodium metal then heating over a
Bunsen flame.
Behaviour..... of contaminated oil. Does not flow well, Does not like
to ignite. Potential cancer hazard.
Hazards.......There seems to be no clear evidence that Dioxins and
PCB's are destroyed by incineration. Why put your health at risk ! !
Settling gets rid of solids. You may also get liquid phase separation
based on density. But you intend dealing with oils which are solvents,
so there can still be potentially toxic organic chemicals in solution.
Nothing more I can offer on this topic.
Best regards,
Ivor.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2004 3:37
Subject: Re: french fry fuel as kiln oil - Ivor's mention...
> Hi Ivor,
Thank you...
>
> Below and amid...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
>
> > Dear Phil,
> > I think the way to go is to either set up your own
> fractional
> > distillation plant and analytical lab or use very thick
> gloves and a
> > perfect respirator at all times.
>
>
> Oh...sounds way too complicated and too expensive, and too
> bulky and so on just to run my Stove and Kiln and maybe
> some Furnace for smelting.
>
> I prefer instead, some low-tech fun-n-friendly thing I can
> do, something sensible and not too fussy...which is
> kinda-like the whole point of my being interested at all,
> too...!
>
>
> ...when earlier you'd said...
>
> >ps.Do you know how to test your recycled crank case lube
> oil for "Dioxins".
>
>
> I thought that infered you DID know, and would tell me, or,
> that you were going
> to recommend
> some method...
>
>
> Do you know? Have you a method to recommend?
>
>
>
> > I chose to forget about using this stuff even though our
> Council had
> > several 50 gal drums on their storage lot. Used it once
> before I
> > learned about the hazards. Once was enough to learn about
> its
> > behaviour.
>
>
> What 'hazards'?
>
> Hazards in what context?
>
> What 'behaviour'?
>
> Behavoiur in what context?
>
> ...did it act like liquid 'Helium' or something?
>
> ...'Behaviour', meaning...?
>
>
> Please be specific so I may understand...
>
>
> > On the other hand, using the old fashioned Two Drum
> Sand/Clay filter
> > might help to get rid of the resinous stuff.
>
>
> Well...so would letting it 'sit' a while...
>
> I remember fellows in the 1950s and '60s, as used to save
> used Crankcase Oil and let it settle in glass gallon
> jugs...in a few months, it was all 'clear' and pale-amber
> but for the lowest layers as were maybe 1/8 inch thick at
> most. Now,
> I do not recall them resorting to 'Barrels of Sand' or
> other,
> to do this...so...
>
>
> > But then you are left
> > with the problem of getting rid of the contaminated sand.
>
>
> I do not think I should resort to barrels of 'sand' or
> other, but, instead, to allow Gravity to settle matters
> gently and uncomplicatedly enough...and to decant...
>
> I will dispose of the lowermost 'sludge' in an appropriate
> manner, you may be sure...
>
> I shall also refrain from getting either the 'sludge' or the
> subsequently
> 'pale-amber' Oil on myself, which, as an able Cook, and
> House Painter, and sometimes Roof Tar applicant,
> and so on, I have allways seemed able to do...so here as
> well, with 'this', I shall abide as ever...not to 'wear'
> it...
>
>
> > Might make
> > the aftermath of Thanks Giving at Alice's Restaurant seem
> like a
> > Sunday school tea part !
>
>
> Well...this shall not be a consideration for me...nor shall
> I
> imbibe Hash-Brownies or Mary-Jane Brownines when working on
> this...
>
> In fact, I never liked Arlo Guthrie all that much anyway,
> and 'Alice
> B. Toklas' if you ever saw her, was enough to scare one
> well away from any desire to accidently associate her visage
> with ANY
> kind of possible 'drug' (OR culinary) experience. I am
> getting
> queasy just thinking about it now...oh hell, where's that
> old bottle of Drammimine now that I need it???
>
> ...dammit, now you got me thinking about Gertrude Stein as
> well...I will be HAUNTED!!! Eeeeeek! The three of 'em, faces
> floating kalidescopically in the ether and so
> on...'Brownies' in their outstretched wiggley
> hands...gesturing at me...eeeeeesh...maybe I should burn
> some 'Sage' or something? Any Wikens here? Help me out
> please!!!!
>
>
> > Stick with the discarded Cafe oil.
>
> Or anyway, I
> shall be very 'c-a-r-e-f-u-l' about the from whooooooom I do
> get
> my 'Oil'...uhhh-huh...
>
> Now I am getting scared, where the 'dioxins' and so on did
> not worry me near as bad...( don't they have that nice sort
> of
> 'nutty' flavor anyway? Kind of like 'hypo' on one's
> succulent finger tips when one used to
> do Black-n-White prints?)
>
> But anyway...
>
>
>
> I do want to learn to do this you know, and to do so,
> as I set out TO do it, meaning in a low-tech and straight
> forward way..
>
> After all, I am interested TO do this to stay 'warm' should
> I be in a colder clime, and, or, to fire my Kiln or other
> purpose-furnaces in an affordable way.
>
>
> Maybe I shall find out how...maybe not...and...either
> way...I will have had fun. I will experiment and ask
> questions and see what I can find out...
>
> If the 'dioxins' and the "P.C.B.s" should turn out through
> some way of influenceing them, or on their own, to occupy
> certain layers of specific gravity of the soup, then I
> should find it easy enough to remove them and discard them
> in some kind and considered way...
>
> Otherwise, or as well, I shall see what I may learn about
> how to get them to oblige...or, I shall decide that the
> amount OF them, being maybe not much more than say what is
> in 'Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" (or Michigan "Milk" ) and the
> hell with worrying
> about them at all...
>
> Afterall, I am not eating this, I am
> burning it with compressed air atomizers and at very high
> heat...and with a nice long Chimney too...whilst all the
> diesel busses and trucks and many non-diesel cars with worn
> 'rings' and valve-seats, 'burn' oil all day
> long, do they not? - And all them jetplanes in their way...
>
> They do 'here'...and all them 'powercompanies' burning soft
> coal and so on...
>
> ..sigh...
>
>
> > Best regards,
> > Ivor.
>
>
> Likewise!
>
>
> Phil
> el ve
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> =01=01=01
MarjB on thu 29 jul 04
Morning Ben : your message and especially the negative comments about
Canola Oil concerned me. I did a "google" and suggest that you check out
the urban myths about this product and then check out the rebuttals and
further information about the processing and testing of this product. After
my reading this morning I do not feel I have to throw out my Canola Oil.
One study that I found very interesting was the ill effects of "hot woking"
getting the oil (most cooking oils) far too hot and that causing ill effects
for people. That might be worth considering when contemplating using any of
the cooking oils for kiln firings. Your contact would not be similar to
someone stir frying but another factor in the decision to use. MarjB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: french fry fuel as kiln oil - Ivor's mention...
Ben on tue 3 aug 04
Morning Marj,
Not trying to cause a stir about Canola. I probably have some in the =
pantry myself. But, I generally avoid it, personally. But I generally =
avoid peanut and cottonseed oil too, personally. My choice. I also eat =
lots of organic vegetables, whole grains, some meat and fish, olive oil =
and honey. And so do my children. I think what Mel said about systems =
applies to many areas. It's hard to isolate one element of a system and =
make a sole judgment. It's harder still to reproduce a system whether =
it's pottery or nutrition that passed long ago. But I think, in some =
aspects, it's worth the effort.
I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the fried oil aspect. =
You might try a google on EFA's (essential fatty acids) GLA (gamma =
linolenic acid) and ALA (alpha linolenic acid) as well as trans-fatty =
acids, saturated, unsaturated, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats =
for some well rounded information on the relative nutritional values of =
fats. Seems like most in the industrialized nations are shy on EFA's. =
Quite a bit of ill health is attributed to this, even by medical =
professionals.. Anyway, sorry to get a bit off topic. =20
Respectfully,
Ben
SubjectDate: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:59:48 -0400
From: MarjB
Subject: Re: french fry fuel as kiln oil - Ivor's mention...
Morning Ben : your message and especially the negative comments about
Canola Oil concerned me. I did a "google" and suggest that you check =
out
the urban myths about this product and then check out the rebuttals and
further information about the processing and testing of this product. =
After
my reading this morning I do not feel I have to throw out my Canola Oil.
One study that I found very interesting was the ill effects of "hot =
woking"
getting the oil (most cooking oils) far too hot and that causing ill =
effects
for people. That might be worth considering when contemplating using =
any of
the cooking oils for kiln firings. Your contact would not be similar to
someone stir frying but another factor in the decision to use. MarjB
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