Bacia Edelman on fri 13 aug 04
That was a question asked me during a 45 minute drive home from
the coldest August night at an outdoor Shakespeare performance
of Cymbeline ever. (American Players Theater in Spring Green, Wisc.)
It was 45 deg.F. by the time I got home at midnight.
I was in a car with three retirees, one a former professor, one
a nurse, one a highschool French teacher. I was not bragging, honest!
I said I could not take on some new adventure because I was part
of a team who had a commission for our new Overture (performing and
general art center) and needed to work and besides, am going to
the woodfire conference in a month in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
So they asked the unanswerable question about how I became a potter,
an artist, or whatever they asked and how I knew I was talented.
I never indicated that I was or am, honest.
What a question? I answered obliquely about having an aunt who
introduced me to clay as a child but privately thought, how do I know that
I am, and I hate that word: talent, anyway.
Since two nights ago, I thought of all silliness answers such as: the minute
my mother awoke from the ether and saw the red-faced baby girl, she
said: Wow, she is going to be an artist like my father! My grandfather,
dead long before I was born, was an immigrant, but in Austria-Hungary
he was a scribe, lettered cards in Old German script, drew stuff
for women to embroider for trousseaus or whatever and was also
left-handed. But I didn't tell them that. I muttered what I first wrote.
Mainly I am always using excuses of my work or having too much on
my plate and avoid commitments. Not all commitments however. Just most.
Cymbeline, by the way, was magnificently performed. I wore
a lot of layers and a heavy wool coat, had a big towel as a blanket
for knees and think it made my asthma much worse. What crazy August
weather and then I see poor David Hendley boiling in the August Texas
heat and firing his kiln an extra three hrs. because it got tired too.
I wish you could have been watching the play with me, David.
Best to all.
Bacia
Bacia Edelman
Madison, Wisconsin
http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts/bacia.htm
http://www.silverhawk.com/artisan/clay/edelman/index.html
Vince Pitelka on mon 16 aug 04
I'd guess that most people who you might think are talented in a particular
area really aren't any more talented than anyone else. Instead, they are
just experienced and confident. If you do almost anything with confidence,
people are more lilkely to see it as exceptional. "He's so sure of
himself - it must be good."
I think that people who pursue something with diligence, and give themselves
credit for their accomplishments will be seen as having talent. Yes, there
are certainly people who have more of a knack for two-dimensional or
three-dimensional manipulation of art materials, but it drives me crazy when
I hear people say "Oh, I couldn't do that. I have no talent in that area."
Well, if that's what they think, then there isn't much chance of them
getting into that area. I hate to see anyone held back by a lack of
confidence or an unwillingness to take a chance.
Best wishes -
- Vince
At Paul Herman's place, north of Reno, and I can hardly believe I have to be
at a departmental meeting in Tennessee a week from today. I am looking
forward to the semester, but why can't it just begin with classes? Why
meetings? Blah.
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Cat Jarosz on mon 16 aug 04
Soo sorry to use all of Vinces email but I couldnt figure out any wasted
wordage and it is all so 100 % right on the money in my experience also... I
hear ohhhhhhhhhh your sooo talented blah blah blah and all the things Vince
points out that is said.. whoaaaaaaa hold your horses... I worked my buns
off for all that so called talent.. it was not easy, it was not cheap, it
was not without sacrifices and pain!!!!! Do not belittle my skills with
calling it TALENT and think that gets you off the hook !!!! Besides I
aint done yet and hope I never am...
I like to tell people that say those things that NO I was not born
talented at all but if talent included having enough interest to perservere
with " a subject " long enough to get good at it then yeah call me talented
!!! I believe anyone anywhere ( ok anyone with no physical disablility )
could become the best potter they can ever be if they stick with it long
enough to gain the skills needed and the more they seek the more they gain...
there is never any stoppage till they themselves stop...
I am very passionate about this subject and I like to think I am setting
people up for success and positive reinforcement when I speak in this manner
to them after they complain about themself not having the talent... I try
and do it all in a positive light and encourage people that yeah they can do
it too and I laugh at my humble beginnings and how wonderful it all was and
how I thought I was gonna set the world on fire after my first successful
lid !!! wooooo hooooo look out world... I hear it on a few voices here on
clay art.. ie Taylor from wacko is one woo hooo look out world kinda potter
and I imagine him moving on to greatness one of these days.. he has the
heart and the drive and the woo hooo world here I am kinda attitude that is
needed..Fearless !!!
Man 2 emails to clay art in one day !!! I really need to be in studio
LOL.... cat jarosz
In a message dated 8/16/2004 2:02:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET writes:
I'd guess that most people who you might think are talented in a particular
area really aren't any more talented than anyone else. Instead, they are
just experienced and confident. If you do almost anything with confidence,
people are more lilkely to see it as exceptional. "He's so sure of
himself - it must be good."
I think that people who pursue something with diligence, and give themselves
credit for their accomplishments will be seen as having talent. Yes, there
are certainly people who have more of a knack for two-dimensional or
three-dimensional manipulation of art materials, but it drives me crazy when
I hear people say "Oh, I couldn't do that. I have no talent in that area."
Well, if that's what they think, then there isn't much chance of them
getting into that area. I hate to see anyone held back by a lack of
confidence or an unwillingness to take a chance.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Christy Pines on mon 16 aug 04
And then again, I believe there is such a thing as talent, or giftedness
which when combined with hard work, practice, determination, heart and
persistence, will take you far. I can sing, but never had a voice like
my friend Sue who's an opera singer. From as early as 6th grade, it
wasn't hard work and practice that made that voice. It was obvious. Hard
work and practice made her an international opera singer, but the same
hard work and practice would never have gotten me there.
I too don't like it when someone assumes that what I can do just came
naturally to me, that it required no effort to produce, but I like to
look at those comments from the other side. They are admiring what you
do, believing that they do not have what it takes to do it - maybe
they're not thinking of the talent side of it. Maybe they are imagining
how hard it would be to become as good as you, and knowing that they
themselves don't have that same determination - and recognizing that you
have created art, feel that their ability to create art is no where near
close to yours, no matter how hard they tried. I like to think it's a
comment based on admiration and appreciation, not a slight in regard to
what it took to become you.
And too, I think you sell yourself short by believing that anyone could
do what you do, if only they applied themselves. Give yourself credit
for all that makes you good - gifts, talents and all the determination
to put them to use in the name of your art. Nothing wrong with that. You
don't put other people down by acknowledging what you can do. I tell my
16-year-old nephew that when someone is impressed with something he can
do, the right response is a little humble, as in "thank you. it took a
long time and a lot of hard work to get here". That's all. Things come
easier to him than to others. Why? Because of innate talent and the
willingness to harness it.
christy in connecticut where the pots won't dry for all the rain but
there's no trees down so i'm not complaining
cpines at ix.netcom.com
Cat Jarosz wrote:
>I
>hear ohhhhhhhhhh your sooo talented blah blah blah and all the things Vince
>points out that is said.. whoaaaaaaa hold your horses... I worked my buns
>off for all that so called talent.. it was not easy, it was not cheap, it
>was not without sacrifices and pain!!!!! Do not belittle my skills with
>calling it TALENT and think that gets you off the hook !!!! Besides I
>aint done yet and hope I never am...
>
> I like to tell people that say those things that NO I was not born
>talented at all but if talent included having enough interest to perservere
>with " a subject " long enough to get good at it then yeah call me talented
>!!! I believe anyone anywhere ( ok anyone with no physical disablility )
>could become the best potter they can ever be if they stick with it long
>enough to gain the skills needed and the more they seek the more they gain...
>there is never any stoppage till they themselves stop...
>
>
elca branman on mon 16 aug 04
I never knew I was talented..I just knew that I was creative, and saw
many different possibilities, each one leading to a new one.
I used to worry as a very young person that I would run out of creativity
.
Ha!
Little did I know that I will probably run out of time first.
Elca Branman
http://www.elcabranman.com
________________________________________________________________
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Snail Scott on mon 16 aug 04
At 11:55 AM 8/16/2004 -0600, Vince wrote:
>it drives me crazy when
>I hear people say "Oh, I couldn't do that. I have no talent in that area."
Yep. A whole lot of people (artists included) think
that some magical thing called 'talent' is the
secret, and you've either got it or you don't.
'Talent', I think, is just a sort of potential.
Well, some people do catch on to certain skills
quicker than others - maybe their brains are
just wired up with a predisposition to think in
those terms, so they start out a jump ahead. But
that only gets you so far. I've known a lot of
'talented' folks who never amounted to much as
artists because they relied of this thing called
'talent' that everybody told them they had, and
never worked much to develop the art that this
'talent' led them to make. It's the source of a
lot of half-baked, not-ready-for-prime-time art.
A lot of other folks have to work like crazy to
develop the skills to make what they want to make.
Some of them never quite get there, in spite of
trying, and that's the source of a lot of art
that manages a basic workmanlike competency, but
never really soars.
But sometimes, with just enough knack, and plenty
of effort, and a whole lot of persistence, it all
comes together and some doofus says "Wow, they
sure have a lot of talent!" It makes the artist
out to be some sort of idiot-savant vehicle for
this 'talent' thing, as though effort and thought
have no part in the process.
Wanting it isn't enough, and sometimes neither
is working, but 'talent' alone won't cut it either.
-Snail Scott
Joyce LEE on mon 16 aug 04
Never did. Never was. Never will be. That's okay.
Not totally true. Like each of us, I have talents, gifts but
they have little to do with art. Can't sing. Practice doesn't
help. Can't art either. Ditto practice. I don't believe that
any of you... even the most talented..... can say "think I'll
art today," and have it happen based solely on=20
determination. You luck out day after day simply because
You are You and are very gifted.
I have a few such areas also...... like you with your
art, though I
appreciate what gifts I have, I tend to take them=20
for granted and
believe that "anybody can do blank," despite all
evidence to the contrary.
I have too few good, creative ideas about clay.... ideas that
simply spring from my creative imagination. I can.... thank
God for that..... be inspired by others and take it from there,
perhaps beyond what they might have hoped to do
themselves. I say "perhaps," don't want to sound too
grandiose, but it has happened.
However, I can be a good craftsman. That's what I want;
what I work for daily; what I think is coming about.......
through hard work (really hard work), perseverance and
love for what I do ........ not to mention attention to
details. Craft to me .... when it
happens.... is pure joy ... total satisfaction..... lifts me
beyond my daily self.
Art? Craft? To me, doesn't matter a drat. Some who
are truly artistic waste their precious gift ..... often to
the point of creating sloppy, ugly, pointless work. AND
I know very well that one man's "ugly" is the epitome of
achievement to another...... and ... to me.... ugly
beats hell out of cute or (gulp) even pretty. I do
Ugly; I do Cute; I do Pretty........ but I shoot for
Beautiful, Elegant, Striking, Outstanding, Different...
Weird....... Genuine Unusual sparks my heart.
What I'd really like is Touching, Moving, Inspiring ...
may not happen with so little talent..... but it might.....
it just might..... When one is in one's Youth of Old
Age...... could happen.
Joyce
In the Mojave desert of California where we have an
increasing number of baby lizards AND the roadrunner
passes by daily ..... that's against nature...
what's going on here? Had two beauteous hawks in
the olive tree yesterday.... lizards, hawks, rr's... must
be the humidity.... drives us all batty.
Todd....... I love my new roadrunner stamps, signature
stamp and the one that says Roadrunner Studio. =20
Exactly what I wanted.
Kathy Forer on mon 16 aug 04
On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:28 PM, elca branman wrote:
> I used to worry as a very young person that I would run out of
> creativity
I used to question whether I had anything to say; how could someone so
young possibly have valid experiences I wondered.
It took a long time, but I got used to the idea that I had something to
say, no matter how small or insignificant, and I grew out of the
pitfall that my work was mediocre owing to unsure confidence in my
perceptions or ininspired ideas and execution. And eventually that none
of that really mattered. At a student show of what I thought was purely
personal work, other students observed universal themes and practices
at work, and I understood finally and acknowledged them. Understanding
this general within the specific allowed me to pursue my own vision and
soon my confidence grew and so, too, my ideas, expression and passion
(at least to some minimal extent).
My third grade music teacher asked me to "mouth" the words when the
parents came and I knew that though I loved to sing, very loudly, I
just couldn't hold a tune and probably never would without great pain.
But I was often picked on for my talent in art, crafts, math and
gymnastics and I grew to resent being singled out, made to show off or
demonstrate. Knowing the answers in math was fine, math answers were
either right or wrong, so it wasn't personal, but doing all that
wonderful stuff these kids are doing at the Olympics today grew to be
humiliating as what I did was easy for me and I knew there was so much
more and no one was there to challenge me. I could challenge myself as
far as form or pushing levels was concerned, but after a classmate
stopped competing, I was too isolated at a pretty young age.
But somehow art singling didn't bother me as I knew how to work at and
develop was I was doing and knew there was a whole world of it out
there. So doing something was also a way of challenging my fellow
students who weren't singled out. (Though I'm told now, some were made
to feel inadequate, so maybe it was just me showing off.) My dad was
more naturally talented with drawing and could look at whatever I had
made and point usually to the one thing that didn't work and ask me
what was going on there. He didn't do it at all to harm, but because he
was interested and because he saw. As a consequence, though, I learned
that it's often the thing that doesn't work that makes the rest work.
If too many things don't work, that's no good, but there can be central
omissions or commissions that are enabling and directing.
So, talent is something we all have to degree. If we don't develop it,
it goes nowhere. "This little light of mine ...I'm going to let it
shine."
Kathy Forer
www.kforer.com
Lee Love on tue 17 aug 04
Joyce LEE wrote:
>I have a few such areas also...... like you with your
>art, though I
>appreciate what gifts I have, I tend to take them
>for granted and
>believe that "anybody can do blank," despite all
>evidence to the contrary.
>
>
The best line in the movie Troy came out of an argument Achilles was
having with Odysseus. Achilles (the worlds best fighter) chided
Odysseus for not being good at fighting. He said that Odysseus was
only good at tricks. Odysseus replied, "I am no fighter. We have
to use the talents that the Gods gave us."
This is the secret to happiness, discovering your talents
and then exercising them. There have been studies that prove this
is true. It is more important for happiness, to exercise your
talents, rather than meeting society's material measure of what is
successful.
If you got here : http://authentichappiness.org/ There are
some tests that are good at helping you figure out what your strengths
are. And when you are working from your strengths, you are less likely
to be troubled by what other folks are doing.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Dorie Mickelson on tue 17 aug 04
I love this topic! I have always held the belief that anyone who is
really passionate and enthusiastic about something as well as being
somewhat driven, ambitious, willing to learn and work hard, is
persistent, dedicated, able to persevere in the face of obstacles,
rejection, or other seeming "failures", etc., etc., etc., can be
successful. Sure, some natural "talent" or capabilities in a given area
are helpful, and some folks learn some things faster/easier than others,
but without the hard work, passion, commitment, and perseverance, still
amounts to very little.
The things I have accomplished and been most "successful" at in life so
far have been things that I have both loved and worked hard for -- a
little "talent" combined with a lot of enthusiasm and hard work goes a
long way! And of course, when you love something, the work is not the
drudgery that work you do not love can be -- it is a reward in and of
itself -- something that energizes you instead of depletes you --
something you look forward to doing instead of dreading -- something
that brings joy into your day/heart/spirit/life. That is how clay and
the creative process are for me...
Dorie in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where the sun is shining, the sky is blue,
the kiln is firing, and my wheel and clay happily await me!
www.FreeSpiritCreations.com
**********************************
From: Vince Pitelka
Subject: Re: how did you know you are talented?
I think that people who pursue something with diligence, and give
themselves credit for their accomplishments will be seen as having
talent. Yes, there are certainly people who have more of a knack for
two-dimensional or three-dimensional manipulation of art materials, but
it drives me crazy when I hear people say "Oh, I couldn't do that. I
have no talent in that area." Well, if that's what they think, then
there isn't much chance of them getting into that area. I hate to see
anyone held back by a lack of confidence or an unwillingness to take a
chance. Best wishes -
Cindy Eve on tue 17 aug 04
I came across a short article in the Sunday paper a few years back and have
had it posted on my studio wall ever since:
"What Happens in the brain of an Einstein in the throes of creation?
That remains for now an impossibly complex mystery-though it's likely to
involve more than just brain circuitry.
It may tap into something as ineffable as passion itself.
Recently, a Dutch psychologist tried to figure out what separated chess
maters and grand masters. He subjected groups of each to a battery of
tests-IQ, memory, spatial reasoning. He found no testing difference
between them.
The only difference: Grand masters simply loved chess more. They had more
passion and commitment to it. Passion may be the key to creativity."
I firmly believe that the passion we have for out work is the strongest
driving force we have. This passion is what feeds me and keeps me going.
Cindy
Eve Pottery
In Great Falls, Montana where the sun is shining and the sky is blue-a
perfect day for making pots!
Bonnie Staffel on tue 17 aug 04
Elca, wish I had said that. I don't know when that door will shut on me,
but I will fight like heck to keep going as long as I am able to use my
head. And then I will figure out a way to be involved in the arts even if
it is only on the computer or passing on the experience I have gained
throughout my career.
I do believe that talent runs in a family, but my daughter, 2 granddaughters
and two great granddaughters use theirs in different ways to find their own
success in the arts. My mother who wrote poetry, always told me I had
"talent" and my father, a musician, made sure I had an art education at the
Toledo Museum Saturday classes for youngsters. However, talent only goes so
far. Success comes from 90 percent hard work with maybe 10 percent talent.
I was raised to work at anything I did and it did not come easy. But it was
a wonderful trip. Perhaps it is an interest as a youngster that the family
recognizes and nurtures.
I showed at the local Charlevoix Waterfront Art Fair Saturday where I just
sat and hugged my old friends and customers who stopped by to see me.
Luckily, a friend put up the canopy, my family took care of setting up and
handled the sales and the take down. Beyond that, I worked my tail off the
past two months making pots to the point of exhaustion. But it was all
worth it. One of the highlights of the fair was when the young college man
we hired to mix our clay back in the 70's stopped by to say hello with his
family. We shared a lot of memories of those early days. I was also
honored by being the "artist of the day" with lots of publicity. What a
day!!!
Warm regards and a salute to hard work,
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel
http://www.vasefinder.com/
Potters Council member
Millie Carpenter on tue 17 aug 04
> I'd guess that most people who you might think are talented in a
> particular
> area really aren't any more talented than anyone else. Instead, they
> are
> just experienced and confident. If you do almost anything with
> confidence,
> people are more lilkely to see it as exceptional. "He's so sure of
> himself - it must be good."
>
I try to stay out of these things. B u t ...way back in the day, when
I was young and skinny, I was a dancer. my teacher would always tell
us to smile and look confident. there was one girl in the Jazz trio
with me who always smiled and looked so confident that the rest of us
looked like we were the ones off the beat, not her.
there are many people out there who have the native ability, or the
trainability , And I do think that the training is about 90% of it.
that is the discipline of making those 200 vessels just to get the
shape right , and pulling handles every day until it looks
effortless. Its that other 10% that is the inner spirit, the soul,
that thing that animates the art form. that 10% is what makes the
pots racers, for potters it is easy to see the ones that have it,
they are the ones that we ache to hold, talented people seem to have
more of these successes.
Now on talent. I have always known that I am somewhat talented,
(notice the modesty here) I cannot remember a time that I wasn't
making something. it was more or less expected because there were
several artists in both my parents families, and my Dad was a
commercial/graphic artist for a living and a set designer for the local
theater because it was fun . And I had free access to a lot of art and
sewing supplies and lessons. and I was able to do some things easily
from the start. But no matter what I produce (I also work in fibers)
or how well it sells, I am never sure that its not a fluke, Can I
keep doing it? will the next one be as good or better? And besides no
matter how many lessons I had and how hard I practices, I still don't
play the guitar well enough to play for anyone. So many of us don't
have that sense of confidence in ourselves and we are constantly
looking for reassurance of one sort or another. And to me that is
really a talent, to believe in ones own self.
Millie in Md. Glad that my in-laws in NC didn't float away, glad
that my daughter who was in Fla. visiting, was safely out of the path.
and so glad that the Chesapeake bay area was spared. we still have
people who are trying to recover from Isabel last year.
David Heard on wed 18 aug 04
de-lurking to set my neck on the block. I don't know that I am talented. I
know I love clay - its zen and a poem waiting to happen with every spin of
the wheel for me. I know there is nothing I'd rather do with my life.
My opinion - maybe I approach it differently, but I don't think schooling
makes the artist, nor apprenticeship, instruction, etc - I think an artist
is defined by the visible intent of the work. Not all potters who make
wonderful pots are artists. A functional bowl for example is still just a
bowl as wonderfully formed and as light/heavy as it maybe. I think these
folks are masters of their craft which is something I aspire to. A Master
who blends the glazes just so, fires just this way, uses the pot as a
canvas, the list is endless ... now that to me is art because there is
intent. Knowing the chemical compounds of a glaze or being able to spout off
a firing schedule for any cone, or what your fave clay recipe is doesn't
make you an artist or a potter it makes you knowledgable about pottery which
although it helps is altogether different thing.
Peace,
-Dave in Virginia
_________________________________________________________________
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Kate Johnson on wed 18 aug 04
Lee, thank you. You are one of the reasons I re-subscribed to the list...I
remember your calm, loving, wise attitude.
Odysseus replied, "I am no fighter. We have
> to use the talents that the Gods gave us."
>
> This is the secret to happiness, discovering your talents
> and then exercising them. There have been studies that prove this
> is true. It is more important for happiness, to exercise your
> talents, rather than meeting society's material measure of what is
> successful.
I have found this to be true as well--I've been self-employed for many years
now--almost all my working life--and am very grateful not to have had to
life a life of quiet desperation, as Thoreau put it. I am far from rich,
but I live a good life, doing what I know how to do, using the gifts God
gave me.
Am I an artist? Yes, when I make art. When I build a cabin, I am a
journeyman carpenter. When I make a pot, I am a potter. When I garden,
when I weave, when I cook...it's the same. Can someone else define those
things for me? For themselves, yes...but not for me. (I loved Frederic
Franck's concept of this, and am mangling it, here, I know.) I'm not saying
I am professional at any of these things but making art, but for the time I
am doing these things reasonably competently, then that is what I am.
Thank you again...
Best--
Kate Johnson
Graphics/Fine Arts
http://www.cathyjohnson.info/
http://www.epsi.net/graphic/
Jeanette Harris on wed 18 aug 04
I got a clue when on Christmas when I was 5 years old, everyone in my
family gave me a watercolor paint set--something like 8 paint sets!
I know from teaching that some students have an ability, but unless
they develop it, nothing will come of it.
I know that art is a never-ending search for excellence and
I know that I make art because it gives me delight and tickles my soul.
--
Jeanette Harris
in Poulsbo WA
Wood Jeanne on thu 19 aug 04
Talking about your own talent is difficult without
seeming to be arrogant. Especially on a list like this
where.. probably, everyone is talented, and you feel
like...probably 3/4 are more talented than you. If we
could be lined up that way. ("OK Jeanne you are #1971
;-))
I remember very specifically, 6th grade, watercolor of
a magpie, no one had to tell me it was good, I knew
it. And I think that's what talent may be, no one has
to tell you your work is good or bad, you know its
worth. Maybe not the most astounding artist around,
but still, sometimes a work will be enough to make you
feel *really* good.
Occasionally with my behaviorally challenged high
school students I'll see a spark of something, and
work with them one-on-one. And the child will realize
for the first time in his/her life that they are
talented.
This is often a real surprise to the kid because of
their various problems they hadn't spent their
childhood drawing and being praised as most "talented"
kids have done. Then as they continue their art they
become frustrated because they can't draw/paint/pot as
well as they think they should be doing, because they
haven't gone through the practice and thus the steps.
IMHO Talent helps the artist skip a few steps, the
more "talented" the more steps can be skipped. Or
maybe there is more than one kind of talent and one of
them is the thing that enables a person to practice
endlessly and still enjoy it.
Cheers,
Jeanne W.
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Steve Slatin on thu 19 aug 04
Let me ask a (possibly foolish) question. Do you have to
be talented to be a potter? I can't draw a straight line
with a ruler and have no particularly well-known artistic
tendencies or training, but I took pottery classes for
years and learned how to do quite a few things --
maybe with the craft side of pottery you don't need
talent as much as you need the simple willingness to
sit at the wheel and throw a few dozen pots in a day,
and cut them up and wedge them back into a nice
lump and do it all over.
I learned to play tennis from a guy who told me that
anyone can learn to hit the ball well, all you have to
do is practice each stroke (forhand, topspin forehand,
backhand, topspin backhand, backhand slice,
overhead, first serve, second serve, squared-up
at the net) 5,000 times. Maybe pottery is like that;
something that can be learned by anyone if they
have the diligence and love of the medium.
Perhaps this is 'only' the craft part of ceramics,
and not the art.
Steve Slatin
Steve Slatin -- Entry-level potter, journeyman loafer, master obfuscator
Sequim, Washington, USA
48.0937°N, 123.1465°W or thereabouts
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Vince Pitelka on fri 20 aug 04
> Some level of craftskill can be learned by most people.
Dear Lee -
Could we settle on something a little less elitist? How about "A high level
of craft skill can be learned by almost anyone willing to commit the time
for extensive long-term study and practice." I say "almost" because I do
realize that there are some people who are such klutzes when it comes to
manual skill that they would have no hope of becoming skilled craftspeople.
Fortunately, those people usually excel in other areas.
I agree that artistic genius is much more likely to appear when the artist
is firmly grounded in materials, process, and technique. I think it is
further likely if the artist has inate design sense, but even with those in
place, artistic genius requires inspiration based on life experience and
observation. As i see it, that's what supplies the real spark of genius.
Ultimately, there are so many different avenues to artistic genius,
dependent on the vagaries of individual life experience, personality, and
inclination.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on fri 20 aug 04
> I do believe that talent runs in a family
Bonnie -
I sometimes wonder. There are always the cases where musicians breed
musicians breed musicians etc., but how much of that is hereditary and how
much is environment? I suppose we could go around and around forever on
this, but when someone grows up in a family of artists, it often sets the
precedent and gives them confidence to make art.
I just watched a segment about Robert Rauchenberg from last week's CBS
Sunday Morning. Early in life in the oilfields of Texas, he found great
enjoyment in art, but got no encouragement at all from family and friends,
and thus pursued another career direction. Later on, in the Navy of all
places, he finally received encouragement for his artistic skills, and
decided to pursue art as a profession. So in that case it wasn't heredity
or environment. Often, real "talent" appears from nowhere. But I still
think that most of the people we see as having "talent" simply have
confidence in their abilities, and the willingness to pursue something
difficult.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on fri 20 aug 04
Steve Slatin wrote:
>Let me ask a (possibly foolish) question. Do you have to
>be talented to be a potter?
>
Some level of craftskill can be learned by most people.
Creative genius/talent is more difficult to develop, if it isn't already
there. Related to what we were talking about previously, it is good
to understand what we are strong at. When you know your strengths,
you can build on them. The great majority of potters here in Mashiko
are not creatively inspired, but they do have technical skill. They
would do their best work either by copying the best originals, or under
the direction of an inspired artist.
>I learned to play tennis from a guy who told me that
>anyone can learn to hit the ball well, all you have to
>do is practice each stroke (forhand, topspin forehand,
>backhand, topspin backhand, backhand slice,
>overhead, first serve, second serve, squared-up
>at the net) 5,000 times.
>
>
This is a personal example in my own life. I am not a
"natural" athlete. In my small rural H.S. (graduating class of 64
people), the tennis team was established during my freshman year.
Was going to join as a sophomore, but had an accident and some bad burns
on my legs. Couldn't start until my junior year. Everyone else
on the team had been playing for 1 or 2 years. The coach started me
at number 13, out of 13 people. But I practiced hard, 2 hours pf
service practice in the morning before school and then from 4pm until
11pm or midnight after school every evening. I won every challenge
match I played (challenged someone new every week), until I became #2 on
the team, beating the previous #2 on the last day of the season.
My best friend Chuck, the best "natural" athlete at my school, was the
person I practiced with when everyone else on the team went home. I
worked as hard as Chuck and challenged him often during my senior year,
but could never do better than 6-0, 6-1 or 6-2 against him. He and
I went to the same college and I practiced with him on our university
tennis team (couldn't join, because I had to work, even though the coach
offered me a scholarship.) But all the finesse I could muster could
not defeat his combination of hard work and natural talent. We were
dealt different cards from the deck of life. But it didn't in any way,
lessen my joy on the tennis court.
>Perhaps this is 'only' the craft part of ceramics,
>and not the art.
>
Yes. But it doesn't matter. We are lucky to have many
ways to approach our craft/art.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Lee Love on sat 21 aug 04
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> Some level of craftskill can be learned by most people.
>>
>>
>Could we settle on something a little less elitist?
>
It is not elitist to realize that we all have different gifts and
abilities . I am realistic about my craft abilities. I could
never be a shokunin. Hamada once said about himself, "Every potter
in Mashiko is more skill than me."
>Ultimately, there are so many different avenues to artistic genius,
>dependent on the vagaries of individual life experience, personality, and
>inclination.
>
>
Approaching creativity is a lot like finding ones
"perfect mate." I believe that every one has a perfect match of a
person in the world, ,maybe several, but we usually settle for the first
person that comes along, and that keeps them from find a more perfect
match for ourselves. I believe that everyone can find the right
creative expression for themselves, if they don't settle for second
best and stop searching prematurely.
A friend of mine who lived at the Northern Warehouse
Artists Cooperative when I did, once told me at an art crawl, when I
came upstairs to admire her paintings she was hanging, "You know, I
started out as a potter. Paul Soldner was my teacher. One day,
during a critique Soldner told me, `You know Judy (not her real
name). You aren't a potter. You are a painter.' " She added,
" He was right. And I thank him for helping me find my medium."
Now, if he was more interested in filling his own class space than
pointing her in the direction she belong, he might have never told
her the truth.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Ron Roy on sun 22 aug 04
Hi Steve,
We all have different levels of talent - I would find it hard to believe
that of all the tasks needed for making pots - we would not be talented in
at least some of them.
I do know that how you think about pots has a great influence on how well
you do in the long run. Understanding about containers, inside space and
function - while you are making certainly gives you an edge.
In other words - the right thoughts in mind is more important in the long
run than pure talent in this game.
RR
>Let me ask a (possibly foolish) question. Do you have to
>be talented to be a potter? I can't draw a straight line
>with a ruler and have no particularly well-known artistic
>tendencies or training, but I took pottery classes for
>years and learned how to do quite a few things --
>maybe with the craft side of pottery you don't need
>talent as much as you need the simple willingness to
>sit at the wheel and throw a few dozen pots in a day,
>and cut them up and wedge them back into a nice
>lump and do it all over.
>
>I learned to play tennis from a guy who told me that
>anyone can learn to hit the ball well, all you have to
>do is practice each stroke (forhand, topspin forehand,
>backhand, topspin backhand, backhand slice,
>overhead, first serve, second serve, squared-up
>at the net) 5,000 times. Maybe pottery is like that;
>something that can be learned by anyone if they
>have the diligence and love of the medium.
>
>Perhaps this is 'only' the craft part of ceramics,
>and not the art.
>
>Steve Slatin
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
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