Steve Slatin on mon 16 aug 04
Paul --
See http://www.google.com/webmasters/4.html for info on this. Google
doesn't give away all the secrets, but there's enough there to get the
gist of it.
Google interprets a link on your page to page X as a 'vote' for page X.
it does nothing for your page's standing. Also, not all votes are equal.
Google doesn't say how it weights the votes, but does say it "uses
the collective intelligence of the web" to create the weights. My guess
is it has something to do with hit count on the page providing the 'vote'
link to your page.
There's a running battle between Google and advertisers over the
methodology. Google continues to spot anomalies and improve its
methods. For a while some companies claimed they could boost
your standing on Google and what they did was provide "link farms",
enormous compendia of pages full of links to your pages. Google
has somehow managed to remove at least some of these thumbs
from the sausage-scales of justice.
Best wishes -- Steve S.
Paul Lewing wrote:
Just out of curiosity, I was trying to see where my web site comes up on
Google, if I type in various keywords. I was really disappointed at how far
down the list it is. It varies with what keyword you use, but for instance,
with "tile murals", it comes up about #150. Some web sites come up 4 or 5
times before mine comes up once.
So why is that? And what can I do to make it come up sooner?
Steve Slatin -- Entry-level potter, journeyman loafer, master obfuscator
Sequim, Washington, USA
48.0937°N, 123.1465°W or thereabouts
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
Paul Lewing on mon 16 aug 04
Just out of curiosity, I was trying to see where my web site comes up on
Google, if I type in various keywords. I was really disappointed at how far
down the list it is. It varies with what keyword you use, but for instance,
with "tile murals", it comes up about #150. Some web sites come up 4 or 5
times before mine comes up once.
So why is that? And what can I do to make it come up sooner? I've heard
that the oftener it's changed, the higher up the list it is. I've also
heard that the more links you have, the higher it comes up. Are those
things true? If it's links, does it matter whether they're links to my site
or from my site?
I've got every phrase I can think of listed as a metatag. Does that
matter? Does the text on the web site matter?
I'm not very computer-savvy, so simple things would be best. Or is this the
kind of thing you hire someone to do, or buy software to do?
Thanks, Paul Lewing, Seattle
www.paullewingtile.com
Kathy Forer on tue 17 aug 04
On Aug 16, 2004, at 11:27 PM, Paul Lewing wrote:
> So why is that? And what can I do to make it come up sooner? I've
> heard
> that the oftener it's changed, the higher up the list it is. I've also
> heard that the more links you have, the higher it comes up. Are those
> things true? If it's links, does it matter whether they're links to
> my site
> or from my site?
You're correct about incoming links, but the same is true for outgoing,
to a lesser degree.
Frequency of change doesn't make much difference that I know, though
having text content on your pages is very important.
> I've got every phrase I can think of listed as a metatag. Does that
> matter? Does the text on the web site matter?
I looked at the source for five files and didn't see any meta-tags
except on the main frameset page. But the robot crawlers need to know
what's on each page. You need to put tags on your frameset itself, also
the opening frames and any interior pages. You could also consider
using a site map page as a freestanding or non-frame alternative, in
the <![CDATA[ tag, that the crawlers would read to get your content.
<BR>
<BR>Search engines are traditionally not that friendly with framed sites.
<BR>It used to be they couldn't see past the first page, but now, though
<BR>they can, there are still problems with frames.
<BR><http://www.anubazaar.com/Top_10_mistakes.htm> has some good
<BR>suggestions.
<BR>
<BR>Search engines like to read a page structurally. Crawlers look at the
<BR>Title, meta description, H1, H2...H6, <b> and <i> tags.
<BR><http://www.seo-guy.com/tutorial.html> (site is perhaps a bit too
<BR>techy, but good to skim) They also look for image "alt" tags which you
<BR>don't have, but should. i.e. Instead of <img src="images/turtlea.gif"
<BR>width="123" height="45">, have <img src="images/turtlea.gif"
<BR>alt="turtle tile mural" width="123" height="45">
<BR>
<BR>> I'm not very computer-savvy, so simple things would be best. Or is
<BR>> this the
<BR>> kind of thing you hire someone to do, or buy software to do?
<BR>
<BR>A couple links that might be the best places to start:
<BR>Webmonkey's Search Engine Optimization
<BR><http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/01/23/index1a.html>
<BR>How to Create and Submit Websites to Search Engines like Google | Free
<BR>Site Submission | Search Engine List | Website Ranking
<BR>http://www.selfpromotion.com>
<BR>Do a search on SEO in google and you should get even more useful
<BR>information.
<BR>
<BR>As one of the experts on a tech list noted (and I hope I'm quoting
<BR>sparely, with fair use in mind):
<BR>> Most crawlers will find your site within a few months if you just get
<BR>> some good incoming links. As for getting a GOOD listing, that's
<BR>> another
<BR>> story... and a whole 'nother post on SEO (Search Engine Optimization).
<BR>
<BR>SEO isn't such a big thing, unless one considers the very fine points.
<BR>It's pretty straightforward to submit a site to be crawled, which can
<BR>help:
<BR>Yahoo! http://submit.search.yahoo.com/free/request
<BR>Google http://www.google.com/addurl.html
<BR>Lycos
<BR>http://r.lycos.com/r/ss_insitepro_signup/http://insite.lycos.com/
<BR>lite_step1.asp
<BR>DMOZ http://www.dmoz.org/add.html
<BR>
<BR>Kathy Forer
<BR>www.foreverink.com
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
<H3>Gail Phillips on tue 17 aug 04</H3>
<blockquote>
<BR>Paul -
<BR>
<BR>It might help if you added another meta tag that has the format of description - go to this page to see what I am referring to - http://www.lissaexplains.com/basics3.shtml. It is an instruction site for kids, so please forgive me for suggesting it. It seemed so straightforward, though! There are other suggestions, there, too, like how to submit your site.
<BR>
<BR>Good luck!
<BR>
<BR>- Gail Phillips, Praying Mantis Pottery
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
<H3>pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 17 aug 04</H3>
<blockquote>
<BR>Hi Paul,
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>One experiment as may prove interesting, is, when you have
<BR>nothing else to do, while viewing your site, click on
<BR>'refresh' a few thousand times, then, initiate your search
<BR>again, and see how far 'up' your site has progressed.
<BR>
<BR>If your site has a counter, each refresh would be
<BR>interpreted as a new visit or visitor...
<BR>
<BR>I am not certain, but I think that may affect the order it
<BR>appears in a search, that is, how often it is viewed...
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Phil
<BR>el ve
<BR>
<BR>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "Paul Lewing"
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
<H3>Roly Beevor on tue 17 aug 04</H3>
<blockquote>
<BR>Paul Lewing wrote: I was trying to see where my web site comes up on
<BR>Google, if I type in various keywords. I was really disappointed ...
<BR>
<BR>Paul,
<BR>
<BR>I think you need to put some content in the 'no frames' section of your home
<BR>page, so that the search engines have something to spider. (see
<BR>http://www.submit-it.com/subopt.htm?tipq=1.1&subans=1)
<BR>
<BR>Because your site uses frames they can't find anything, so give it a low
<BR>rating.
<BR>
<BR>As to the keywords, look at the top ranking sites and see what they use. You
<BR>just open the site and go to View, Source, in Internet Explorer.
<BR>
<BR>Good luck
<BR>Roly
<BR>
<BR>Back from hols in Jersey (the old one). Their pottery is like the island as
<BR>a whole, perfectly presented, beautifully packaged for the tourists, a
<BR>wonderful holiday but I wouldn't want to live there.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.jerseypottery.com/
<BR>
<BR>http://www.agateware.co.uk/index.html
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
<H3>Gary Elfring on wed 18 aug 04</H3>
<blockquote>
<BR>SS> Just out of curiosity, I was trying to see where my web site comes up on
<BR>SS> Google, if I type in various keywords. I was really disappointed at how far
<BR>SS> down the list it is. It varies with what keyword you use, but for instance,
<BR>SS> with "tile murals", it comes up about #150. Some web sites come up 4 or 5
<BR>SS> times before mine comes up once.
<BR>SS> So why is that? And what can I do to make it come up sooner?
<BR>
<BR>Google uses a complex system to rate the importance of various web
<BR>pages. No one knows exactly how it works, but some clever folks have
<BR>analyzed what it appears to be doing. This system also changes on a
<BR>regular basis. So the following advice works now, but things will
<BR>change in the future.
<BR>
<BR>Part of the ranking depends on the number (and page rank) of sites
<BR>that link to your web site. If you install the Google toolbar in
<BR>Internet Explorer you can see the page rank of your site and any other
<BR>site you visit. You want links to your site from other web sites with
<BR>page ranks of at least 5. (The text they use in the link is also
<BR>important.) So one thing to do to get higher in Google's listings is
<BR>to get many links from other pottery web sites (with high page ranks)
<BR>to yours. (This is the hardest thing to change.)
<BR>
<BR>The other part of Google's ranking that you can easily effect is the
<BR>text and layout of your web site. Google uses a "spider" to look at
<BR>web pages and find data to index. This is a piece of software that is
<BR>fairly "dumb". The spider sees *only* text and some html commands. It
<BR>will not look at anything in java script. You can also think of it as
<BR>a program that gets bored easily. If you have too much junk before
<BR>something that it considers interesting is found, it discounts your
<BR>site.
<BR>
<BR>To improve your ranking in Google you have to pick, at most, 2 or 3
<BR>phrases or keywords you want to optimize your site for. The Google
<BR>spider wants to see those keywords in your <title> tag (located in the
<BR><header> section at the beginning of your web page). Google pays no
<BR>attention to meta tags (a few sites still use that information, but
<BR>most don't.) Google also wants to see your keywords in a headline
<BR>(<H1> tag) and in actual text on your page. You need a minimum of 200
<BR>words of text on a page and your keywords need to repeat at least 3
<BR>times within that text. Finally, the headline and text must be found
<BR>within 2000 - 3000 characters from the start of your web page. (If you
<BR>have a lot of java script at the start of your web page, get rid of
<BR>it- store it in a separate file and use an include.)
<BR>
<BR>You can use the following link to get a feel for how your web page
<BR>looks to a spider:
<BR>
<BR>http://www.spidertest.com
<BR>
<BR>All this may be fairly difficult to do if you don't understand basic
<BR>html programming/mark up.
<BR>
<BR>--
<BR>Best regards,
<BR>Gary
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
<H3>Gary Harvey on sat 21 aug 04</H3>
<blockquote>
<BR>I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the number of times a website is
<BR>listed on other sites can determine the picking order. My suggestion is
<BR>that everyone have a page of links to other sites that will list yours. It
<BR>won't hurt to try it. Gary Harvey, Palestine TX
<BR>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "Paul Lewing" <PJLewing@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
<BR>To: <CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG>
<BR>Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:27 PM
<BR>Subject: Getting web site seen by search engines
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>> Just out of curiosity, I was trying to see where my web site comes up on
<BR>> Google, if I type in various keywords. I was really disappointed at how
<BR>far
<BR>> down the list it is. It varies with what keyword you use, but for
<BR>instance,
<BR>> with "tile murals", it comes up about #150. Some web sites come up 4 or 5
<BR>> times before mine comes up once.
<BR>> So why is that? And what can I do to make it come up sooner? I've heard
<BR>> that the oftener it's changed, the higher up the list it is. I've also
<BR>> heard that the more links you have, the higher it comes up. Are those
<BR>> things true? If it's links, does it matter whether they're links to my
<BR>site
<BR>> or from my site?
<BR>> I've got every phrase I can think of listed as a metatag. Does that
<BR>> matter? Does the text on the web site matter?
<BR>> I'm not very computer-savvy, so simple things would be best. Or is this
<BR>the
<BR>> kind of thing you hire someone to do, or buy software to do?
<BR>> Thanks, Paul Lewing, Seattle
<BR>> www.paullewingtile.com
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>____________________________________________________________________________
<BR>__
<BR>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
<BR>>
<BR>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
<BR>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
<BR>>
<BR>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
<BR>melpots@pclink.com.
<BR>
</blockquote>
<BR>
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