Jeanette Harris on wed 18 aug 04
>Hi All,
>
>I can't remember who had the post about the halogen work lights from
>Lowe's but they sounded good (and they're only $20 each) so I bought
>4 instead of installing flourescents or having an electrician
>install permanent fixtures.
>
>I put them in several key areas around the studio (wheel, wedging
>and handbuilding, glaze and not too near the kiln) and am amazed at
>the fine quality of the light! I can see! Not only that but I
>don't have to see everything, I can turn on only the ones I need.
>
>They were very easy to put up with hooks and chains and the cords
>are nice and long.
>
>Whoever you were, thank you so much!
>
>Paula in Ft. Collins, CO where the rain's been pouring down for over 2 hours!
You're welcome there, Ma'm. I love mine too. Good to hear they are
available in other places.
--
Jeanette Harris
in Poulsbo WA
Paula Mann on wed 18 aug 04
Rod,
Aaargh! Thanks for the info. I'll keep the halogens off as much as
possible and try to share energy increase info with the list.
The worst of it is that I'm just starting up with a new old kiln so it will
be difficult to judge where the increase is worse.
Oh well, the important thing is that I can finally throw, glaze, and fire,
all in the happiness of my own home so unless the cost really hurts the
budget, I say it's worth it!!
I'll keep you posted (so to speak).
Paula in Ft. Fun, CO
Paula Mann on wed 18 aug 04
Hi All,
I can't remember who had the post about the halogen work lights from =
Lowe's but they sounded good (and they're only $20 each) so I bought 4 =
instead of installing flourescents or having an electrician install =
permanent fixtures.
I put them in several key areas around the studio (wheel, wedging and =
handbuilding, glaze and not too near the kiln) and am amazed at the fine =
quality of the light! I can see! Not only that but I don't have to see =
everything, I can turn on only the ones I need.
They were very easy to put up with hooks and chains and the cords are =
nice and long.
Whoever you were, thank you so much!
Paula in Ft. Collins, CO where the rain's been pouring down for over 2 =
hours!
Rod Wuetherick on wed 18 aug 04
Paula not sure who suggested the Halogens but you may not be thanking them
when you get your electrical bill.
For example a common Halogen light fixture is 500W which is about 12 8' long
40W tubes. Also Halogens although they are bright are not efficient as far
as lumens per watt. To verify this just stand close to them and feel that
heat. Much of the energy you will be using is being turned into heat and not
light.
I think the cheapest in energy and cost of bulb replacement would have been
T8 bulbs with Electronic ballasts. You may think you are saving money on the
onset with the Halogen lights but the cost in the long run will be many many
times more in energy costs. Also because halogens are so hot they do in fact
represent a fire hazard, however small that is the fact remains that
halogens are damn hot.
Cheers,
Rod
Hi All,
I can't remember who had the post about the halogen work lights from Lowe's
but they sounded good (and they're only $20 each) so I bought 4 instead of
installing flourescents or having an electrician install permanent fixtures.
I put them in several key areas around the studio (wheel, wedging and
handbuilding, glaze and not too near the kiln) and am amazed at the fine
quality of the light! I can see! Not only that but I don't have to see
everything, I can turn on only the ones I need.
They were very easy to put up with hooks and chains and the cords are nice
and long.
Whoever you were, thank you so much!
Paula in Ft. Collins, CO where the rain's been pouring down for over 2
hours!
Rod Wuetherick on thu 19 aug 04
Kathi,
I'm looking at lighting not from the perspective of a subjective functional
purpose suited to a particular application - I'm looking at lighting from
the basis of science.
You point out that all halogen lighting fixtures are not 500W that is very
true and I certainly would not argue that. I use low voltage halogen lights
to light my display cases for shows. When I first decided on using these
puck lights for use in shows I had this amazing idea or so I thought - I
could use Velcro to attach the lights in whatever configuration that I set
my display up for that particular show. Experience has shown me that it was
a foolish idea as even 10W halogen lights generated so much heat that it
actually caused the glue in the Velcro strips to melt.
That being said I did continue to use these 10W lights for display because
they are an excellent light for being able to directionally apply the light
to where I wanted it. I obviously devised a much better method to move my
lights around.
However I also have a foolish hobby which I cannot afford and that is I have
salt and fresh water fish tanks. With salt hard coral need allot of light -
so much that we normally use sodium halide to produce the light. These
lights are also fairly inefficient for lumens per watt but that is what we
are stuck with. In freshwater tanks we need an average of 4 watts per gallon
of light to grow freshwater plants as well as CO2 supplementation. Obviously
I won't go into that here as it doesn't matter to the point I was trying to
make.
The reason why I brought up this discussion is if you ever want to know
about lighting talk to hard core aquarium enthusiasts - they have done their
home work. When I mentioned the Halogen lights I'm not talking out of the
side of my mouth. I know these things fairly well granted not as well as
some of the people I know in the aquarium industry. This is the same reason
photographers use flashes for lighting when photographing people or other
organisms that might wither under the intense heat of halogen pot lights.
The point I was trying to make is the simple fact that halogen lights are
notoriously inefficient for lumens per watt. This is not something that can
be debated and I'm not going to get into the numbers here it is all out on
the internet. If you are looking for lots of light, long bulb life, and
economy the best bang for the buck is T8 bulbs with electronic ballasts.
Furthermore Kathi your letter was somewhat inflammatory in the sense of the
statement of, "who have taken to patrolling fairs for fire hazards, would be
shutting us all down." This was unnecessary and somewhat shooting from the
hip for no good reason. I'm certainly not participating on this list to be
right all the time and most of the time many of us are offering subjective
opinions on subjects. Though here I take offence as scientific and
functional statistics speak for themselves. Halogen lights are hot and when
you buy them they will tell you to mount them in specific ways as to
minimize the chances of fire, etc. A 500W shop light if knocked over close
to combustibles can easily cause a fire. I would propose that from
experience even a 10W light could cause a fire if improperly installed. A
10W halogen light produces as much heat as a 120W incandescent easily. I
know this from experience as per melting Velcro never mind the fact that I
have over $6000.00 invested in lighting for my salt and freshwater tanks.
Halogens are hot and inefficient as per lumens per watt. That is simply not
open for debate. Go to GE or any other source on the internet and find that
out for your self. If I was building another studio I would do the same
today as I did before. T8 bulbs with electronics ballasts. Bulb life and
lumen drop off is extraordinary and the operating costs low.
Why do they sell halogens for your kitchen? They look pretty and have a
narrow spectrum that is useful for highlighting. In my studio I want light
everywhere I'm not looking to highlight my countertop or that special pot
that I just unloaded at a show.
I'm not ashamed to admit that sometimes when I offer an opinion on clay art
that could be taken wrong or could be erroneous I to a search on the net to
ensure myself that I know what I'm talking about. I would suggest others do
the same before they fire back statements based on what they think they
might know. There is often a large difference between what we think we know
and what is fact. Before you disagree with someone take the time do 5
minutes of research to ensure that what we believe we know is fact - truly
is.
Cheers,
Rod
I'm not sure where you get halogen fixtures that have 500W bulbs. I use
track lighting for my booth. All of the bulbs are 50W. All of the track
lighting that I've seen at places like HOme Depot have 50W bulbs. I use
about 10 bulbs to light my booth. Some heat is generated, but if it was
as bad as you imply then no one would come into the booth and the fire
marshalls, who have taken to patrolling fairs for fire hazards, would be
shutting us all down.
Kathi LeSueur on thu 19 aug 04
rod@REDIRONSTUDIOS.CA wrote:
>Paula not sure who suggested the Halogens but you may not be thanking them
>when you get your electrical bill.
>
>For example a common Halogen light fixture is 500W which is about 12 8' long
>40W tubes.>>>>
>
I'm not sure where you get halogen fixtures that have 500W bulbs. I use
track lighting for my booth. All of the bulbs are 50W. All of the track
lighting that I've seen at places like HOme Depot have 50W bulbs. I use
about 10 bulbs to light my booth. Some heat is generated, but if it was
as bad as you imply then no one would come into the booth and the fire
marshalls, who have taken to patrolling fairs for fire hazards, would be
shutting us all down.
Additionally, the lighting of choice in new and remodeled kitchens is
halogen. Again I don't think the inspectors woud allow it if the hazards
were as you imply.
But........ I could be wrong.
Kathi
Kathi LeSueur on fri 20 aug 04
rod@REDIRONSTUDIOS.CA wrote:
>Kathi,
>
>I'm looking at lighting not from the perspective of a subjective functional
>purpose suited to a particular application - I'm looking at lighting from
>the basis of science........
>
>......I use low voltage halogen lights to light my display cases for shows. When I first decided on using these puck lights for use in shows I had this amazing idea or so I thought - I
>could use Velcro to attach the lights in whatever configuration that I set
>my display up for that particular show. Experience has shown me that it was
>a foolish idea as even 10W halogen lights generated so much heat that it
>actually caused the glue in the Velcro strips to melt.>>>>
>
I've used Velcro to hang my lights for years. Never had this experience.
I don't know why.
>Furthermore Kathi your letter was somewhat inflammatory in the sense of the
>statement of, "who have taken to patrolling fairs for fire hazards, would be
>shutting us all down." This was unnecessary and somewhat shooting from the
>hip for no good reason.>>>>
>
Well, I'm definitely not trying to be inflammatory, and really can't
understand why you took my statements in that way, but I live in a
community that will let you do just about anything....as long as you do
it their way. Which meant that my remodeler for my studio had to jump
through hoops to satisfy the building departments requirements. They
made him do things that no other communities required. I doubt hurricane
Charley could take down my studio. So, if they allow or disallow
something in a certain application, my opinion is that they have the
knowledge to make that decision. If they felt halogens were not right
for a certain application, or that they posed a hazard, they would have
disallowed it. And, at the very least they would have advised me that,
while my choice may not be forbidden, it wasn't wise.
Any lighting source, for that matter, any electical source can start a
fire if used improperly or irresponsibly. A Klennex on a light bulb will
catch fire. Too high a wattage bulb in a lamp will burn the shade. And,
a jacket draped over a motor can burn down a studio. Halogen lights
provide good lighting for certain tasks and are safe if used properly
used. As are all light sources.
Kathi
Janet Kaiser on fri 20 aug 04
Here is another environmental and economic "take" or two on
halogen...
You can put in an independent low voltage system and run the
lighting off solar cells, water or wind power fed from batteries.
Even in a country like the UK not famous for sunshine hours
through the year, solar power is a viable alternative. And in
cooler climates, the heat factor of halogen is actually a plus
factor, especially in ceramic studios not known for the little
luxury of warmth, let alone high temperatures!
I personally much prefer halogen, not least because it is easy to
change the bulb from a maximum wide angle to a 10 degree spot and
vice verse with a couple of other options in between. Also the
type of light from bright white to "daylight" depending on need,
is just the change of a bulb away. As many low-voltage halogen
lighting systems are pretty versatile, positioning and changing
set-up is also easy and quickly achieved.
Halogen is never going to be a cheaper alternative because the
bulbs cost much more than fluorescent tubes or conventional
bulbs, even if the electricity is from a renewable source and
"free". But sometimes versatility and effective lighting has to
be the payoff for adding to global warming. We use energy
efficient light bulbs where and whenever they are sufficient at
home and in the Chapel, but good lighting is something that we do
not stint on.
And like any good tool, the best is good enough for the job at
hand! Both for us and our clients. It may cost a little more, but
we would rather save on other areas of energy use and/or wastage,
like temperature control. Turning the thermostat DOWN just one
degree on the heating (or rather UP one when cooling / air
conditioning!) will "pay" for all the lighting you will ever need
to use through the year!
Strip off clothes and pot in the nude if you must in the high
summer and stitch yourself into thermals for the winter, but give
yourself the best lighting system you can, whatever the cost to
both your pocket and the planet! Eyesight is irreplaceable, so it
is worth evaluating your needs and the best way to make sure you
have the best for your own set-up and situation. Like everything
in this life, there is no one single sure fire solution or quick
fix and what suits one person would drive the next nuts!
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser -- Procrastinating as always... But the very thought
of even starting on the 329 unanswered emails in my in box makes
me weak at the knees! I simply cannot sit here more than half and
hour at a time, so will have to continue to "owe" mail... Ho! Hum!
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