Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 4 sep 04
Dear Lela Martens,
Just a couple of points.
Educate a girl and you (may) educate a family, including the husband
if you are a bit old fashioned about these things.
And to <answers.>> So many teachers can only deal with questions where there
is already a known answer (Usually in the appendix of the book if it
is Maths).
With everything else, even including with Clay and Glaze, it is
knowing how to ask questions that is important when it comes to
getting an "Education".
Enjoy your weekend.
Best regards,
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 4 sep 04
Hi Lela, Ivor, all...
Almost everyone I ever heard from about these matters,
reflects on how their 'math' traumas remain in some way, to
this day.
Or some acquired mental blocks in grammar or spelling or
penmanship or athletics or other
areas instead, or in addition, or combination.
But really, the true
curriculum was never the ostensible 'subjects'..but
rather, was something almost no one saw as going on, even
the teachers. And 'that'
is what was learned, most of all...
It seemed obvious to me then, as a kid in grammar school,
that the emotional atmosphere or mood in which one is either
trying to learn something, or wishing to be open to that
something to learn it, or think about it, was important, and
would be intermixed in one's experience of that something.
It certainly seems obvious now as well, in retrospect.
I tried talking to my parents about that then, and they did
not understand what I was trying to talk about, or I was
punished for trying to talk with them about that since they
felt I were offering 'excuses'...and then punished me all
the more for the grades as were not good enough for their
satisfactions, because they thought I was making excuses
about why my grades were falling.
Where, I as me, had no place in the matter -
the matter instead, was one in which I was a non-entity, a
medium
through which good grades were to ensue, as an entitlement
of theirs...and they had become too anxious about the grades
and interfereing when I was trying to study, or were
demeaning in the anxiousness and condescending inquireies
they made about
how-my-day-at-school had been...
Or they became resentful that I was somehow cheating them
out of their
entitlement in their view, with grades as were falling (
from me feeling exhasperated) and if they did not get what
was
'theirs' it was proof of my cheating them out of it...none
of it had anything to do with me, then...as well as me being
additionally wrong to so cheat them, so the only way any of
it did have anything to do with me, was in my being wrong to
cheat them...plus, in that, there was something additionally
wrong with me
for being so ungrateful for all they did for me and so on,
by not getting good grades.
And the irony was, that untill then, untill early third
grade, I had been effortlessly all A+s in everything and had
scored in the top national one percent on some protracted
battery of 'tests' that
had been administered.
This in itself, this anxious interference and resentment and
entitlements and
punishments, was so exhasperating, that around that time,
which was early third grade, I just withdrew quite deeply. I
never did anything in school again and never did any
homework
ever again ( or with the rarest exception and then only very
cursory) but sit there or
sometimes 'answer' if I were called upon, but usually I just
day dreamed and never was paying attention to what I might
be called upon about ayway...
My grades remained pretty much some few Cs and mostly
Ds...and I was often marked absent for having learned to
become so quiet, withdrawn and in effect, somehow
'invisible'...even when I was there. Then I would be
punished for not being there, when I was there...and all in
all, I just went away...into me...to places they could never
find.
Fourth and fifth grades I was placed in classes for the
retarded, where I remained those years, then, was back in
with the regular kids in 6th grade but I never did anything
anyway but day dream or feel unhappy.
What concerns me, are not only those areas in which we
have cogent memories or appraisals of consequence in
ostensible curricula such as 'math', but even moreso, those
areas as themselves, have become even to us, 'invisible'...
It is hard to acess, what we do not remember having lost,
or, what was hidden from 'them' so well, that it ended up
being hidden (even) from ourselves...
Like that...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "lela martens"
> Hi Ivor, Kelly, Phil, and all,
>
> I just can`t keep my nose out of this subject. It may be
a case of
> enjoying agreement on an important subject.
>
>
> >>
> >Or as Jules Henry pointed out in the 1950s...if not in
these
> >words exactly...that, essentially,
> >
> >The most enduring and actual product of our educational
> >system, has been substitution for conscience, of an
> >internalized guidence of emotional trauma and humiliation
of
> >public rejection acquired in classrooms, which assumes
the
> >disguise of fear of
> >failure, or of percieved failure.
>
> >
> >Phil
> >el ve
>
> This so reminds me of my own school experiences.
Science and math in
> particular. Couldn`t see why, instead of X4B + 39 = ?...
just ask me the
> stupid question! or..make clear a formula, or ..anything..
> A study was done not long ago to find why girls did more
poorly in science
> than the boys. They filmed classes in action. Found the
boys often pushed
> girls out of the way in doing lab experiments. Teachers
were more responsive
> to the kids that knew the answers..as well as the
loudest.. the boys.
> Attention towards the kids that knew it already. The
playing field is being
> leveled and the girls are surging ahead.
> Certainly the case in math as well, for me anyway. A
reason for the return
> of girl only private schools becoming popular again, but I
don`t know how
> that is working out yet.
> So I struggle now with oxides and what glaze ingredients
are and do. The
> hours spent doodleing during high school science class
weren`t completely
> wasted..have my carved desighn in clay down to a fine
art..
> Daughter, on the other hand, has quit her geophysics
position in large oil
> company..ethical conflicts.. to get her masters in
neurobiology. That will
> take 2 years, and on to medical school.
> Frustrated at being held back with her first grade class
and admonishing me
> with ` I thought you said they were going to teach me to
read there!`we
> sorted that out with reading to each other evenings for
two weeks. Then.. at
> parent -teacher meeting I was blasted with `Do you know
that THAT GIRL has
> jumped ahead and knows how to read? I just sat there with
a blank look
> waiting for the ending of the tirade of how this was
spoiling her lesson
> plans....
> Nor do I blame the teachers. They are very restricted as
well..so many of
> the truly enthused quitting out of frustration to the
system.
lela martens on sat 4 sep 04
Hi Ivor, Kelly, Phil, and all,
I just can`t keep my nose out of this subject. It may be a case of
enjoying agreement on an important subject.
>>
>Or as Jules Henry pointed out in the 1950s...if not in these
>words exactly...that, essentially,
>
>The most enduring and actual product of our educational
>system, has been substitution for conscience, of an
>internalized guidence of emotional trauma and humiliation of
>public rejection acquired in classrooms, which assumes the
>disguise of fear of
>failure, or of percieved failure.
>
>Phil
>el ve
This so reminds me of my own school experiences. Science and math in
particular. Couldn`t see why, instead of X4B + 39 = ?... just ask me the
stupid question! or..make clear a formula, or ..anything..
A study was done not long ago to find why girls did more poorly in science
than the boys. They filmed classes in action. Found the boys often pushed
girls out of the way in doing lab experiments. Teachers were more responsive
to the kids that knew the answers..as well as the loudest.. the boys.
Attention towards the kids that knew it already. The playing field is being
leveled and the girls are surging ahead.
Certainly the case in math as well, for me anyway. A reason for the return
of girl only private schools becoming popular again, but I don`t know how
that is working out yet.
So I struggle now with oxides and what glaze ingredients are and do. The
hours spent doodleing during high school science class weren`t completely
wasted..have my carved desighn in clay down to a fine art..
Daughter, on the other hand, has quit her geophysics position in large oil
company..ethical conflicts.. to get her masters in neurobiology. That will
take 2 years, and on to medical school.
Frustrated at being held back with her first grade class and admonishing me
with ` I thought you said they were going to teach me to read there!`we
sorted that out with reading to each other evenings for two weeks. Then.. at
parent -teacher meeting I was blasted with `Do you know that THAT GIRL has
jumped ahead and knows how to read? I just sat there with a blank look
waiting for the ending of the tirade of how this was spoiling her lesson
plans....
Nor do I blame the teachers. They are very restricted as well..so many of
the truly enthused quitting out of frustration to the system.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
>
> > Thanks for your thoughts Kelly.
> > Since you are a teacher you are aware, as many are not, of
>the
> > following generalisations;
> > That the framework of our current general school
>curriculum was
> > invented almost 2000 years ago !.
> >cut..> > That any and every topic can be used equally well to teach
>Maths,
In my mother`s school days, all were taught to read with a copy of one
book..from the first year to the last of high school. A combination of
science and philosophy, by some high level intellect of the day. Phonics,
essay subjects,structure, etc.
> > When state public and private school systems were invented
>to solve
> > social problems aristocracy continued to use governesses
>and private
> > tutors as educators! Which seems to prove your point about
>home
> > schooling.
These days in Quebec, many French speaking parents are finding themselves in
a bind. Having been successful in the passing of French only laws, are
having to pay big money for English classes in special schools for their
kids. It has become apparent to them that if their kids are going to `make
it`they had better know English as well. And the old ethical question of `
Is a well rounded education only for the rich?`has reared it`s head again...
Best regards from Lela who often wonders when some are going to learn to
think passed their nose.. to look at the big picture..,.and holding my
breath waiting for Eduard B. to kick in and blast me....let`s all be
quiet...OK?... and apparently still getting over the humiliation that Phil
speaks of above.
:>)
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