Ben on tue 7 sep 04
If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I would =
appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-. They're =
intended for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only glaze the =
outside and fire them upside down but I realize aesthetically they would =
be a bit nicer if the were also glazed on the lip. The body is pretty =
tight at our firing temperature so I'm not worried about seepage. =
Anyway I have alot of ideas but i'm hoping for some practical, =
experiential. I'm curious too if you did want to glaze fully inside and =
out on an unfooted form, how do you deal with that? Tight glaze and a =
spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot or the old rim to rim =
stacked crocks?
Thanks,
Ben
Scott Paulding on tue 7 sep 04
Hi Ben,
Are your forms trimmed smooth on the bottom (meaning, no discernable foot)?
Would you consider glazing all but the very bottom, than fashioning a small
base out of kiln wadding for the form to rest in?
-scott
in rochester, ny
--- Ben wrote:
> If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I would
> appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-. They're intended
> for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only glaze the outside and
> fire them upside down but I realize aesthetically they would be a bit nicer
> if the were also glazed on the lip. The body is pretty tight at our firing
> temperature so I'm not worried about seepage. Anyway I have alot of ideas
> but i'm hoping for some practical, experiential. I'm curious too if you did
> want to glaze fully inside and out on an unfooted form, how do you deal with
> that? Tight glaze and a spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot or the
> old rim to rim stacked crocks?
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Ben on tue 7 sep 04
I throw them upside down, collaring in all the way to a point, then trim
the rim. That was a thought. I'm a little scared of the balancing act, but
it's definitely a possibility. Do you use wadding on your posts? sometimes
my shelves are a little wobbly but I've never taken the time to figure it
out (wadding). For most things it's not a problem but these might be another
story. The other thing was some of my glazes are very fluid and I'm half
thinking the backwards flow would really be nice. Ohh decisions, decisions.
Thanks for the reply,
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Paulding"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Glaze Firing Amphorae
> Hi Ben,
>
> Are your forms trimmed smooth on the bottom (meaning, no discernable
foot)?
> Would you consider glazing all but the very bottom, than fashioning a
small
> base out of kiln wadding for the form to rest in?
>
> -scott
> in rochester, ny
>
> --- Ben wrote:
>
> > If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I would
> > appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-. They're
intended
> > for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only glaze the outside
and
> > fire them upside down but I realize aesthetically they would be a bit
nicer
> > if the were also glazed on the lip. The body is pretty tight at our
firing
> > temperature so I'm not worried about seepage. Anyway I have alot of
ideas
> > but i'm hoping for some practical, experiential. I'm curious too if you
did
> > want to glaze fully inside and out on an unfooted form, how do you deal
with
> > that? Tight glaze and a spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot or
the
> > old rim to rim stacked crocks?
> > Thanks,
> > Ben
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
> =====
> "I should have been a plumber."
> -Albert Einstein
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Scott Paulding on tue 7 sep 04
If you make the wadding cone shaped, 2-3 inches tall (or more) with a base as
wide as (or wider) than the rim. Then hollow out as much as you can wile both
maximizing the height of the cone and maximizing the depth of the hole for the
vase to sit in, you should be ok. Also remember, you'll need to make a unique
stand for each vase so that you can maximize the stability.
Perhaps if you made the stands out of procelain (or the clay body you made the
vases out ofinstead (and bisque fire your vases in the stands as well) that
way, if your fluid glaze does run, it won't bubble up on the alumina (as I have
seen happen when the alumina I put in my wax touches the glaze).
Bear in mind, this is all just theory at this point. I've seen this work
perfectly for pieces that were round on the bottom, not pointed. Hope it
inspires some ideas for you.
Oh yeah, as for wadding the stilts, that's generally fine. We do that often in
some of the wood firings I've articipated in for just that reason -- stability
of the shelf. Generally though all we do is dip the ends of the stilts in kiln
wash. Thing is, you need to use the same amount of wadding on all three stilts
or you may wind up with shelves that aren't level. I guess in the extreme, this
could affect your vases. Depends on how they're thrown.
-scott
--- Ben wrote:
> I throw them upside down, collaring in all the way to a point, then trim
> the rim. That was a thought. I'm a little scared of the balancing act, but
> it's definitely a possibility. Do you use wadding on your posts? sometimes
> my shelves are a little wobbly but I've never taken the time to figure it
> out (wadding). For most things it's not a problem but these might be another
> story. The other thing was some of my glazes are very fluid and I'm half
> thinking the backwards flow would really be nice. Ohh decisions, decisions.
> Thanks for the reply,
> Ben
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Paulding"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Glaze Firing Amphorae
>
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Are your forms trimmed smooth on the bottom (meaning, no discernable
> foot)?
> > Would you consider glazing all but the very bottom, than fashioning a
> small
> > base out of kiln wadding for the form to rest in?
> >
> > -scott
> > in rochester, ny
> >
> > --- Ben wrote:
> >
> > > If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I would
> > > appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-. They're
> intended
> > > for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only glaze the outside
> and
> > > fire them upside down but I realize aesthetically they would be a bit
> nicer
> > > if the were also glazed on the lip. The body is pretty tight at our
> firing
> > > temperature so I'm not worried about seepage. Anyway I have alot of
> ideas
> > > but i'm hoping for some practical, experiential. I'm curious too if you
> did
> > > want to glaze fully inside and out on an unfooted form, how do you deal
> with
> > > that? Tight glaze and a spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot or
> the
> > > old rim to rim stacked crocks?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > "I should have been a plumber."
> > -Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
=====
"I should have been a plumber."
-Albert Einstein
__________________________________
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Steve Mills on wed 8 sep 04
Dear Ben,
I too make Amphorae, and pretty close to the size you make them. Mine
are salt glazed in a wood kiln so are also very high fired. I lay them
on their sides on three small wads, necks facing the fire. The insides
are glazed.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Ben writes
>If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I would =
>=3D
>appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-. They're =3D
>intended for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only glaze the =
>=3D
>outside and fire them upside down but I realize aesthetically they would =
>=3D
>be a bit nicer if the were also glazed on the lip. The body is pretty =3D
>tight at our firing temperature so I'm not worried about seepage. =3D
>Anyway I have alot of ideas but i'm hoping for some practical, =3D
>experiential. I'm curious too if you did want to glaze fully inside and =
>=3D
>out on an unfooted form, how do you deal with that? Tight glaze and a =3D
>spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot or the old rim to rim =3D
>stacked crocks?
>Thanks,
>Ben
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Gail Dapogny on fri 10 sep 04
Hi Ben,
I'll be interested also in hearing any advice offered to you on this
subject.
When I've made hanging vases, I do fire them upside down with an
unglazed lip. I did learn (the hard way, as usual) to make some flat
clay patties out of the same clay, and fire the vase on top of the
patty which will shrink at the same rate as the vase. When I neglected
to do that, I ended up with a distorted out-of-round opening. This was
at cone 10. Possibly it's not a problem at lower temps.
Gail
Gail Dapogny
Ann Arbor, Michigan
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.claygallery.org/
http://www.pottersguild.net/
On Sep 7, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Ben wrote:
> If anyone has experience glaze firing amphorae they could share, I
> would appreciate it. I'm firing ^8-10 and my forms are 12" +/-.
> They're intended for hanging vases. Originally I was thinking to only
> glaze the outside and fire them upside down but I realize
> aesthetically they would be a bit nicer if the were also glazed on the
> lip. The body is pretty tight at our firing temperature so I'm not
> worried about seepage. Anyway I have alot of ideas but i'm hoping for
> some practical, experiential. I'm curious too if you did want to
> glaze fully inside and out on an unfooted form, how do you deal with
> that? Tight glaze and a spot of unglazed lip? Like a porcelain foot
> or the old rim to rim stacked crocks?
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
>
Craig Clark on fri 10 sep 04
Ben, I had experienced a similar conunudrum while making amphorae
type pots. I fired them in a variety of manners (salt, raku, high fire
ox and redux) and used a coupla different methods to support the pointed
bottomed pots during the firing. Among those all ready recommended were
firing the pots upside down on their lip with an unglazed lip. I used
either those little pointed supports to place the pot on to get it off
the shelf or pads of clay that are similar to what I believe folks call
wadding. I also layed them on their sides in a raku and salt firing.
All four methods had drawbacks. The unglazed lip is a problem for
the high fire glaze firings. I was not able to mitigate the difference
between the glazed surface, which was usually a Temoku and the unglazed
surface. Looked kinda funny. Didn't want to use any type of paints after
the glaze though that is definitely an avenue to explore.
The pots on their sides in the salt in particular resulted in a
directionality of the salt effect on the surface that I did not care for
either. This would not work for glazed high fire ware for obvious
reasons. It actually works OK in Raku though I prefer standing them up
in a little triangle of kiln posts for ease of removal in a raku firing.
Sitting here this morning I remembered a method that may have either
been suggested or I may have actually dreamed up.Have not yet tried it
though. Throw a coupla supports that are narrow enough to fit inside the
inverted amphorae. I am inclined to call them quasi cone shapes but that
may not be a specific enough description. The closest I can come with
words is to first ask whether or not you have ever seen a photograph of
what happens to a liquid right after an object has penetrated its
surface. The immediate picture of the "splash" is the shape that may
work very well.
This shape will have a base which is broad enough to give the piece
support and which immediately curves in to form a vertical column of
clay that will fit inside the neck of the amphora. The column part of
the support will need to be long enough so that the inverted amphora
will literally hang on the clay which is in contact with the inside of
the bottom of the pot. I believe this shape has been recently discussed
when folks were talking about making stand-up chicken cookers. Just do a
quick search of the archives.
You will need to make the supports a few inches longer than the pots
and remember to flare the base out for stability. Try starting with the
basic shape of an inverted cone and then coddle it in as if you were
throwing a really long tall neck on the pot. Shape the top so that it
mimics the "pointed" end of your pieces. Bisque fire a few of them along
with your pots.
Take the glazed pot (you won't be albe to glaze the bottom of the
interior) and invert it onto the support that you have thrown for it.
You could try making a one size fits all or many type of support or just
quickly thrown a custom one for each of the amphora.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
>
Laurie Kneppel on fri 10 sep 04
I've never tried making amphorae before, but reading some of the
suggestions made this idea come to mind:
The Gladding, McBean terracotta factory in Lincoln, CA produces a huge
supply of clay sewer pipe. One end of the pipe is flared so that the
pipe may be fit together. It is essential that this flared end not warp
in the firing, otherwise the pipe is worthless as it would leak at the
join. (eewww) The way they fire the sewer pipe is they sit on the
flared end but there is a ring of the same type clay inside the end of
the pipe that holds it an inch or so off the kiln floor. I think the
rings are probably 4 or 5 inches high. They keep the pipe from warping
and the rings are then ground up and used as grog in new batches of
clay. They recycle everything there! The second layer of pipes use the
bottom pipes as their "O" rings. I have a GMcB slide show tour on my
website if you would like to see how they load the beehive kilns for
firing the sewer pipe. Perhaps their method may be adapted for firing
amphorae?
The best photo, and I wish I had thought to photograph the pallets
loaded with raw rings, or gotten a closer shot of the fired pipes
sitting on them, is 05240070.jpg. Click on the left hand link to
Gladding, McBean Tour to start the show. You can scroll down to the one
at any time.
Hope this helps,
Laurie
Sacramento, CA
http://rockyraku.com
Potters Council, charter member
Sacramento Potters Group, member
Ben on fri 10 sep 04
I was thinking kiln posts with a wad on top but this sounds alot more
stable. Has anyone tried this? As follows (abbreviated):
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Clark"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: Glaze Firing Amphorae
>Have not yet tried it though. Throw a coupla supports that are narrow
enough to fit inside the
> inverted amphorae.
> Hope this helps
> Craig Dunn Clark
> 619 East 11 1/2 st
> Houston, Texas 77008
> (713)861-2083
> mudman@hal-pc.org
>
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Craig Clark on sat 11 sep 04
Ben, make sure that you flare out the base of the supports to several
inches for stability.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
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