David Hendley on tue 14 sep 04
I had an interesting discussion with a graduate student in photography
at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
With unbelievable support and materials from the Kodak Company,
and only a few graduate students, this school is most definitely one
of the best.
My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
And these are the "best" students in the country.
Does this sound familiar? I think this is happening in all craft
mediums.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
Scott Paulding on wed 15 sep 04
It doesn't help that RIT's administration has been slowly cutting back all
art/craft programs since at least 1995. I remember being a freshman on
campus and there were protests and demonstrations by art students.
It's a sign of the times. I believe, in this country particularly, that
gov't and any kind of political body, be it the state assembly, congress,
a local school board or a college admimistration just doesn't recognize
the value that arts and crafts have in society.
I mean look at us. I've been making pots for 10+ years. I understand the
value of craftmanship, and learning this has had profound impact on my
life. Yet the vast majority of "stuff" that I'm surrounded with is machine
made or a machine itself -- computers, clothing, bookshelves, dinnerware,
furniture, etc -- all machine made. It's just the way we are programmed.
A friends of mine calls it a downward spiral, and likens it to the
disconnection of people in a community, and to people from nature. It
seems to me that as human beings, we crave community, need to be close to
others, yet all we seem to do is separate ourselves out; create our own
little 'safe' worlds for ourselves or our family.
Personally, I believe that using something handmade reconnects us with the
maker in unknown and profound ways.
ok, time to get off the soapbox :)
-scott
(still in rochester after 4 years at RIT, where I learned the fine art of
computer programming :p)
--- David Hendley wrote:
> I had an interesting discussion with a graduate student in photography
> at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
> With unbelievable support and materials from the Kodak Company,
> and only a few graduate students, this school is most definitely one
> of the best.
>
> My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
> technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
> around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
> arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
> photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
> hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
> And these are the "best" students in the country.
>
> Does this sound familiar? I think this is happening in all craft
> mediums.
>
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
>
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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David Beumee on wed 15 sep 04
When the art of craftsmanship isn't respected by the teachers, the students are more than willing to take the easy road, and since the American heritage in pottery making is tied so closely to the university, the attitude of the unimpotance of craftsmanship quickly fans out into a variety of contexts and venues.
One example; I have had a relationship with a local recreation center with an established clay program for more than four years, where I have taught workshops on pitchers, decorating techniques for Porcelain, a special class just on slip decoration techniques, teapots, nesting bowl sets, shino glazes, copper red glazes, White glazes and underglaze techniques, plates and platters, forming techniques related specifically for porcelain, and brush making. My upcoming workshop on casseroles was cancelled due to lack of interest, a class where I would have shown how to make lids fit perfectly, how to throw and attach nobs, how to relate the casserole function to its form, how to treat ovenware properly, all the many parts of the craft of making casseroles that look good and work well. Cancelled due to lack of interest. But do a workshop on a currently sexy category of glazes like shino and 25 people show up. What's the good of a fine shino glaze without a good form to put it on?
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
David Hendley wrote;
> My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
> technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
> around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
> arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
> photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
> hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
> And these are the "best" students in the country.
> I had an interesting discussion with a graduate student in photography
> at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
> With unbelievable support and materials from the Kodak Company,
> and only a few graduate students, this school is most definitely one
> of the best.
>
> My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
> technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
> around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
> arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
> photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
> hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
> And these are the "best" students in the country.
>
> Does this sound familiar? I think this is happening in all craft
> mediums.
>
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
ccpottery@BELLSOUTH.NET on wed 15 sep 04
Great posting David ... food for thought.
Beautiful, breathtaking art work is always being made.
Craftspeople working as we read this ... trying
with all the skills they possess to make the finest
work they can.
Can this dedication to quality be taught?
Can even the most lavish budgets on the planet teach
a person to care so much?
Can the meanest budget kill a desire to be the best?
Where do the artists who make the exquisite pieces learn?
I confess a large degree of ignorance on the workings of teaching
art ... have not taught it and was never at an art school.
So teachers of art, please offer an opinion ....
Can caring about craftsmanship be taught in a school ...
or does it have to be there to start with?
Nature or nurture?
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - waiting for the next two hurricanes ...
one from the east and one from the south. We are so WET here .... nothing
is drying and we have wild, colored mushrooms popping up everywhere
that really look scary!
Chris Campbell Pottery, llc
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh, NC 27615
1-800-652-1008
FAX : 919-676-2062
E Mail : chris@ccpottery.com
Website : www.ccpottery.com
Wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Wes Rolley on wed 15 sep 04
>He, on the other
>hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
>And these are the "best" students in the country.
>Does this sound familiar? I think this is happening in all craft
>mediums.
In general, I think that you are right. It is all about the "creative=20
moment". The real teaching of craftsmanship is left to those areas for=20
which there is not so much focus on being artistic. Furniture and cabinet=
=20
makers generally do not have such pretensions. The Fine Woodworking School=
=20
that James Krenov established at the College of the Redwoods, Eureka=20
California, has a very rigorous set of requirements.=20
(http://www.crfinewoodworking.com.) It begins with a minimum of 1728 hrs.=
=20
of classroom / shop work in just 2 semesters. That is 216 days at 8 hrs.=20
per day. The course involves both learning ("getting inside") your=20
materials and making your own tools. Sound familiar?
Craftmanship is not dead. It is just that you have to get over the=20
pretensions of artiness to find it. (Being a real artist is a different=20
thing...I was talking about the pretensions.)
I recall another interesting example of craftsmanship. During the late=20
1930's, the Farm Security Administration of the United States Department of=
=20
Agriculture, organized a group of photographers to visit rural area of the=
=20
countries and to photograph what they found in order to make real the=20
plight of families during the economic depression and the Dust Bowl drought=
=20
of the time. These photographers, Walker Evans, Dorothea Lange, Carl=20
Mydans, Russell Lee, Martha Post Wolcott, Arthur Rothstein, Ben Shahn,=20
defined documentary photography at the time. In particular, Dorothea=20
Lange's photographs became icons of the age.=20
(http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/fsa/lang.html) What is not so well known=
=20
that Lange was on the road so much that she had little time in to spend in=
=20
her dark room and on her return to her home in Berkeley, CA, would give her=
=20
film to Ansel Adams to develop, including "Migrant Mother". Of course,=20
Adams was the ultimate craftsman in the dark room.
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
Christine Caswell on wed 15 sep 04
Teaching craftsmanship still exists- but I can't speak for the frequency
with which you might find it. I have two bachelors degrees. The first is
in art history but I also took several studio classes. The ceramics
professor at the school taught craftsmanship. He also taught us to
recognize it in our work and in others' work. In ceramics I 75% of our
grade was based on six pots of our choice. There had to be at least one
thrown bowl, one thrown cylinder, one slab formed pot and one coil formed
pot. The bowl had to have an unbroken curve from rim to rim and all pieces
had to be smoothed of rough spots and be of appropriate weight and
thickness. When I went to get my second degree at another school- a BFA in
Ceramics with a concentration in Art Ed- I was really nervous. It had been
over a year since I had thrown and I was sure that I would be far behind in
my Intermediate class. To my shock I could make better pots (at least as
far as technical skill and craftsmanship) than the entire class. The
professor at that school had a very different approach. She focused more on
the ideas and concepts of the pieces than on the construction. In many ways
I'm glad that I had both styles of teaching. Although I'm also glad that I
had the first teacher first and the second teacher second. I had developed
the skills with my first teacher to execute my ideas with the second
teacher. Balance is good.
On the idea of craftsmanship...
I'm always trying to come up with a simple kid friendly broad definition of
craftsmanship for my Middle school students. Any suggestions?
Christine Caswell
-Maine
(With a vanity plate that says "POTTERY")
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 15 sep 04
Hi Chris,
Nice mentions-questions...
I will add a little amid them if I may...
----- Original Message -----
From:
> Great posting David ... food for thought.
>
> Beautiful, breathtaking art work is always being made.
> Craftspeople working as we read this ... trying
> with all the skills they possess to make the finest
> work they can.
Yes...
Or yes and no, but a larger proportion of 'yes'...
In many Trades, Crafts, area of occupation of
Artisans...there are those who could do earnest, subtly
brilliant Work, who instead do gee-gaw 'artsy' or gimmicky
things, to
both attract high prices, and, to attract those kinds of
people who wish to buy things with high prices on them.
This is not the same as Craftsmanship, and or, I find that
it detracts
from
it.
Also, many high ranking (so called) Artists, are sometimes
spoken of as
Craftsmen, and if one sees their Work, one may see Artistic
ability, combined with very low or very poor or very
sophmoric or panderingly gratuitous levels of
Craftsmanship...or, maybe pretty mediocre 'artistic' ability
too...
The famous artist-craftsman George Nakashima would be a
poster boy of milking a banal gimmick unto excessively
immodest heights, while technically, capable of something
'better'...but technically cabable of something-better is
not the same as spiritually able or cabable, or is not,
unless it
is, and the 'is' is discoved in what someone actually
does...
Or to paraphrase Andrew Vachs, "Love...is behavior"...
And so are other things...
> Can this dedication to quality be taught?
I do not think so...any more than other visceral 'values' or
fidelities
may be taught.
Their presence or their developement may be encouraged by
being positively recognised, if there is anyone 'there' to
do so...it may be Loved ''in" another so it can have
something exterior to feel nurtured by...it can be admired
without being corrupted or degraded...
Otherwise...punishment of it, in various ways, is the usual
course-of-events,
and damage TO it in self betrayal of it in someone's tender
buddings of these values, the usualy eventuality..."that"
may be 'taught' from
other's negative responses, impatience, mirrorings,
indifference, or positively dramatised
punishments of it, of them, and, for
the most part, that is what happens...but then too, the
victim can also resist, elude, or bide their time,
as per their discretion...to do so...
> Can even the most lavish budgets on the planet teach
> a person to care so much?
No...I do not think so.
Too, so far as I cantell, money is a Tool, or a
'material'...
How it is used, and for what, is no different than 'how'
one's Tools and
materials are used...
It is only as 'good' as the 'who' as is useing it...
> Can the meanest budget kill a desire to be the best?
Being the 'best' gets too complicated, too fast, for me...
In
what way 'best'? There are allways too many criteria for
that notion to be useful for me...
Instant chaos...
Was ( or is) 'Serin' gas, the Best?
Better than say. Zyglon B...?
The 'best' for what? In what way(s)?
Anyway...
> Where do the artists who make the exquisite pieces learn?
By paying attention to their own experience, and, from that,
to their construance or interpretation of evidences of the
expressions, disclosures or evidences variously, of other's
experiences, and, from
learning as occurs in that...and from trusting
that...overall...trusting themselves...
If that is not the basis of 'learning'...then, being told or
taught certainly is not...as there is no basis 'then', to
evaluate
what one is told or taught...yes?
And usually, 'that' is the deal most will be dealt...
> I confess a large degree of ignorance on the workings of
teaching
> art ... have not taught it and was never at an art school.
You may be fortunate...
> So teachers of art, please offer an opinion ....
Now you are talking about teaching 'art', where before you
were talking about Craftsmanship.
These may not fall on a continuity, or, one does well not to
confuse them, anyway. Or, they may have some things in
common, nut they do so in differing contexts.
> Can caring about craftsmanship be taught in a school ...
No, at least not in the usual sense of ( or acquiescence to,
or self abnigation to) 'school', which is inimical to
sensibilities of Craftsmanship,
and, is predicated on the absence of the kinds of
sensibilities needed to have it, or to see it. Otherwise, if
in posession of it, no
one would tolerate 'school'...in-the-usual-sense...
> or does it have to be there to start with?
It is like honor...
It makes the same kind of sense.
It is a Romance...
You either subscribe to it in you, or you do not, or, you
try and
delegate it to some small little area, and no-where
else...like a pet goldfish or something, saying "here", here
I
will let it live...in a 'jar'...
> Nature or nurture?
Self respect...
Which is neither, but is closest maybe, to Nature...
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - waiting for the next
two hurricanes ...
> one from the east and one from the south. We are so WET
here .... nothing
> is drying and we have wild, colored mushrooms popping up
everywhere
> that really look scary!
Good luck!
With both...!
> Chris Campbell Pottery, llc
Phil
ell vee
Vince Pitelka on wed 15 sep 04
> My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
> technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
> around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
> arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
> photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
> hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
> And these are the "best" students in the country.
David -
At the Craft Center we have an artist in residence in each area who acts as
studio technician. This is a competitive residenced, and the candidates
have usually just finished an MFA in their media. My first artist in
residence had an MFA from RIT, and although he was a wonderful guy and a
hard worker, his lack of knowledge about ceramics was appalling. He had
made it through undergrad school at Syracuse Univesity and grad school at
RIT without ever learning to throw at all. However, now that Julia Galloway
is teaching there, I bet you would find thorough coverage of technique and
craftsmanship.
I don't think you can make generalizations about this. There are faculty in
both functional and sculptural clay who are very strong on technique and
craftsmanship, and then there are those who have succumbed to the hollow
rhetoric about concept and content being everything, at the cost of
craftsmanship and technique. Yes, this is currently a disease in art
academia, but it is by no means universal, and I have not seen evidence that
it is increasing. In fact, I think it has topped out. But then I am often
accused of being overly idealistic about academia.
From my own point of view, I have to believe art/craft work that
incorporates high standards of technique and craftsmanship has a much better
chance of surviving the test of time.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Dorothy Feibleman on thu 16 sep 04
I wish I had gone to your school instead of RIT.
D
>> My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
>> technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
>> around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
>> arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
>> photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
>> hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
>> And these are the "best" students in the country.
>
>David -
>At the Craft Center we have an artist in residence in each area who acts as
>studio technician. This is a competitive residenced, and the candidates
>have usually just finished an MFA in their media. My first artist in
>residence had an MFA from RIT, and although he was a wonderful guy and a
>hard worker, his lack of knowledge about ceramics was appalling. He had
>made it through undergrad school at Syracuse Univesity and grad school at
>RIT without ever learning to throw at all. However, now that Julia Galloway
>is teaching there, I bet you would find thorough coverage of technique and
>craftsmanship.
>
>I don't think you can make generalizations about this. There are faculty in
>both functional and sculptural clay who are very strong on technique and
>craftsmanship, and then there are those who have succumbed to the hollow
>rhetoric about concept and content being everything, at the cost of
>craftsmanship and technique. Yes, this is currently a disease in art
>academia, but it is by no means universal, and I have not seen evidence that
>it is increasing. In fact, I think it has topped out. But then I am often
>accused of being overly idealistic about academia.
>
>>From my own point of view, I have to believe art/craft work that
>incorporates high standards of technique and craftsmanship has a much better
>chance of surviving the test of time.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
>Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Tig Dupre on thu 16 sep 04
Chris Campbell wrote:
"Can this dedication to quality be taught?
"Can caring about craftsmanship be taught in a school ...
or does it have to be there to start with? Nature or nurture?"
Dear All,
My answer to these burning questions is a loud, resounding, "YES!" To all. To explain: I learned craftsmanship from craftsmen. My parents and grandparents loved working with their hands. Some cooked, some made furniture, all did manual work around the house with the necessary carpentry and painting. I learned to make a neat cut with a hand saw, blend a patch of paint on a wall, make a smooth, shiny coat of varnish on a boat deck.
I learned to do joinery and miter fitting by trial-and-error, sand-to-fit, and glue well. My inspectors were tough, but not as tough as I was on myself. When welding, I learned how to avoid "splash," how to make those neat puddles of melt that indicate a strong, well-made weld.
Mostly, I learned pride in a job well-done. I suppose that a certain degree of finickiness and job snobbery have crept into my handicraft, but I can look at something hand-crafted and think to myself, "WOW! How the hell did he do that?" Or, "My heavens, how in the world does she get that magnificent curve in so short a distance?" With some other work, I give it the once-over and move on.
Maybe some of the propensity for craftsmanship and pride in personal work has to be there, but I think it starts at home, like so many other good values. Mom and Dad teach the basics, and the schools build on the rest.
"Teach your children well..." Crosby, Stills, and Nash
Blessings on all,
Tig Dupre
in Port Orchard, Washington
David Beumee on thu 16 sep 04
Vince wrote;
I don't think you can make generalizations about this. There are faculty in
both functional and sculptural clay who are very strong on technique and
craftsmanship, and then there are those who have succumbed to the hollow
rhetoric about concept and content being everything, at the cost of
craftsmanship and technique. Yes, this is currently a disease in art
academia, but it is by no means universal, and I have not seen evidence that
it is increasing. In fact, I think it has topped out. But then I am often
accused of being overly idealistic about academia.
From my own point of view, I have to believe art/craft work that
incorporates high standards of technique and craftsmanship has a much better chance of standing the test of time.
I find your words very encouraging, and I'm very glad that generalizations should not be made.
It was obvious from the major exhibits I have seen of Picasso and Voulkos' works in clay that a tremendous degree of craftsmanship had been achieved that lead to Voulkos'later stacked forms and giant platters and Picasso's quick and sure drawing techniques into pots and tiles that had been prepared for him. Anyone that has had the privilege of seeing a table full of Voulkos' pots from the late fourties or stood in the presence of Picasso's Blue Period portraits knows what I am talking about. I'd say both artists' work have a pretty good chance of standing the test of time, and why it is of such value to an artist to make an attempt to see the greats when the opportunity allows.
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
> > My friend found out that there is a complete lack of teaching of
> > technique and craftsmanship in photography classes at colleges
> > around the country. The other students kind of smirked when he
> > arrived and they found out he had made a living as a commercial
> > photographer before going to graduate school. He, on the other
> > hand, was appalled at their lack of knowledge of the craft.
> > And these are the "best" students in the country.
>
> David -
> At the Craft Center we have an artist in residence in each area who acts as
> studio technician. This is a competitive residenced, and the candidates
> have usually just finished an MFA in their media. My first artist in
> residence had an MFA from RIT, and although he was a wonderful guy and a
> hard worker, his lack of knowledge about ceramics was appalling. He had
> made it through undergrad school at Syracuse Univesity and grad school at
> RIT without ever learning to throw at all. However, now that Julia Galloway
> is teaching there, I bet you would find thorough coverage of technique and
> craftsmanship.
>
> I don't think you can make generalizations about this. There are faculty in
> both functional and sculptural clay who are very strong on technique and
> craftsmanship, and then there are those who have succumbed to the hollow
> rhetoric about concept and content being everything, at the cost of
> craftsmanship and technique. Yes, this is currently a disease in art
> academia, but it is by no means universal, and I have not seen evidence that
> it is increasing. In fact, I think it has topped out. But then I am often
> accused of being overly idealistic about academia.
>
> From my own point of view, I have to believe art/craft work that
> incorporates high standards of technique and craftsmanship has a much better
> chance of surviving the test of time.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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