Kim Lindaberry on fri 17 sep 04
Ivor,
The ideal world and reality do not necessarily travel the same path.
On Sep 16, 2004, at 3:28 AM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
>
> If I had been commissioned to run an Advanced Class, Course or
> Workshop which gave full hands on instruction then I would have set
> out the minimum requirements and expect those to have been
> accomplished.
In an ideal world I would also set the minimum requirements. The
reality is though that very few teachers have absolute singular control
(power) over the minimum prerequisite requirements and objectives of a
class. (Workshops are not pertinent to the discussion that was being
discussed.) Most of those things are decided by a committee of some
sort, at least that is the case at public institutions of higher
learning where I live. Even then though, to advance onto a higher
level, as you said to Craig, ". . . often has no entry qualifications
whatsoever but beyond that the lower number is a prerequisite for
continuation of study at a higher level . . . " So if a teacher passes
a student from Level 1 that may not have complete mastery of objectives
of Level 1 and that student ends up in my class I have no right or
option to turn them away. Maybe a teacher at a private institution
would have that priviledge but I wouldn't. That doesn't mean they
would get a passing grade from me, but I must try to teach them to the
best of my ability. It is unfortunate that the needs of a student in
such a situation would indeed take second place to those that had
already mastered the basics of Level 1 but they would. They would get
their remedial instruction after the others had been taken care of.
As a point of interest (and to help me better understand your point of
view) do you (or have you) teach at a college? Making a slight
distinction, do you (or have you) teach at a vocational tech school. I
do not hold either a college or a vo-tech school in higher esteem.
Their end results (objectives) maybe slightly different and thus their
methods maybe of instruction maybe different, but both are teaching
beyond the high school level. I know you are some 70 yrs plus, and have
many years of experience with clay. I'm just interested if, when you
speak of teaching, it is from hands on experience at an institution of
higher learning or if it is from a theoritical point of view.
It seems that the path of discussion has moved away from my original
question(s) and that is fine with me. Like I said, that horse has
already been beaten to death.
cheers.
Kim
> To have to set about remedial teaching for one person
> would take time away from students who met those standards. People who
> are entering for an Advanced Class should be able to prepare (taken
> from the store) their own clay for the wheel. They should be competent
> at centring, be able to open and raise clay to produce the basic forms
> of shaped cylinder, bowl, and flatware.
> Yes!!!
> Should someone not have those skills I would be compassionate. If
> circumstances allowed I would ask them to remain behind, when the
> class was finished for the day, for some private tuition. Bear in
> mind, they might resent this as an infringement on their private time.
>
> I have seen folk, in a Summer School situation, who were disadvantaged
> because they were not familiar with the basics. Their needs and the
> compassion of the Leader in helping them slowed the progress of the
> others. They were adults, all paying a lot of cash to participate.
> When the leader was not available to coach qualified students through
> new tasks because of attention to remediation of the disadvantaged,
> the atmosphere turned sour.
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis.
> Redhill,
> S. Australia.
>
>
>
>
> From: "Kim Lindaberry"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 9:53
> Subject: Re: throwing large amounts of clay
>
>
>> Hummmmm. . . . .
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2004, at 1:25 AM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> If they are entering
>>> an advanced level course they should be open minded, observant and
>>> willing to change.
>>>
>>> It is not the new instructors responsibility to give remedial
> teaching
>>> and instruction in an advanced or higher learning situation.
>>>
>>
>> Interesting concept if I understand you correctly. So are you saying
>> that if you had a students come to you, from a previous learning
>> situation, that were struggling with centering you would tell them
> it
>> isn't your responsibility to help them fix the problem??? Sounds
> like
>> you would tell them they should already know how to do it. So what
> on
>> earth are they even paying you for? Sounds like the students would
> be
>> better off staying at home and saving their money - Kim
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 18 sep 04
Dear Kim,
<path.>> Agreed .
<least that is the case at public institutions of higher learning where
I live. >> I believe this is called government by "Consensus". Being
somewhat idiosyncratic, I resisted prescribed processes of governance
in schools whenever I met them. A committee is not in charge in the
classroom or teaching studio. Need I explain why? (Yes? I am
uncomfortable with "compulsion", of doing things which are imposed
upon me against my will or better judgement). It is applied to
educational institutions in Oz as well. There are common core
curricula covering all Technical and Further Education Institutions.
But this may not apply to in universities.
You suggest << So if a teacher passes a student from Level 1 that may
not have complete mastery of objectives of Level 1 and that student
ends up in my class I have no right or option to turn them away >> If
you have agreed to those rules and do not wish to resign, then Yes!
But I must ask, is a teacher who passes a student that failed to meet
standards laid down for the course derilict in their duty of care?
Surely, if making a series of cylindrical objects on the potters wheel
was not achieve because said student did not learn how to centre and
gain competence through practice , then the learning objectives have
not been fulfilled. I think your obligation is to bring such a
situation to the attention of the management even though you may be
compelled to cope with the situation and give remedial instruction.
My experience of teaching Clayarts to adults has been limited to non
vocational classes over a period from 1976 to 1987. In the public
education system I taught Art, Design and Craft. In a recreational
setting people were treated as individuals. At the beginning of a
semester I would ask about experience and started with two groups.
Those with experience were given the options, follow with the
beginners or work on your own project. There was an occasion where a
claywork/art lecturer resigned from the vocational college and I was
asked to consider filling the position, based on my non vocational
clay experience, but I did not take up the offer.
Consider this situation. You are a teacher, "a professional". Your
Principal tells you at the beginning of a new school year that you are
to teach a subject of which you have very limited knowledge, meagre
skills and no professional qualification. You object on those grounds
but are told you are qualified to teach because you completed a
course. You object strongly. Yes, you completed the course but point
out that you failed every examination in that subject during your
time at high school.
That happended to me !! What would you do if you were faced with that
situation???
Oh, by the way. I was deeply involved with the construction of the
Art, Design and Crafts curriculum for South Australian Schools.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
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