Lee Love on tue 28 sep 04
Was too busy to respond earlier, when this topic first
made the rounds again for this cycle. I didn't notice anybody talking
about coil and throw this go-round, so I thought I'd better speak up.
Center and throwing "heroic" amounts of clay is one of those
"problems" created by modern technology: trying to conform the human
body to the electric wheel. It is either difficult or impossible to
do this kind of throwing on low momentum wooden wheels. All the large
stoneware was traditionally either coil and throw, coil and paddle or
thrown in sections and then assembled. I blame the electric wheel
manufacturer's ads for getting the idea of the need to center and
throw large amounts of clay into people's heads.
Jean picked up a new NHK video (our bookstore, that used to do video
rental is ending the practice and is selling off their stock at 300 yen
each.) There is some footage Hamada throwing tsubo on his hand
wheel. I started throwing larger work the "coil and throw" method
after the first time I saw him on video using this method to make larger
things. On the new video, the middle of the pot looks like it is a
half inch out of center.
Also, when I visited Shiho Kanzaki in Shigaraki last summer. I
was surprised to find out that he throw all his work, coil and throw.
I said to him, "You even throw yunomi coil and throw?" He said, "I
throw everything this way." He said all Shigaraki ware was
traditionally thrown this way. Actually, I imagine that throwing
Shigaraki clay with stones in it on an electric wheel with the speed we
are addicted ,to would make hamburger of your hands. I recall burning
my hands on my Shimpo Gold when I threw high grog Raku clay on it too fast.
I was first saw a live person use the coil and throw
method at a Richard Breshnehan workshop. He brought a Korean
mahogany kickwheel made for him by the monks at St. John's to a workshop
at Northern Clay Center. It was mounted on a plate of steel, so it
was portable. I learned from Richard that you don't need an
extruder or pug mill to make coils. He took plugs as big as your arm
and rolled them between his hands to make a smaller coil. I do this,
or I put a fatter coil on a wareboard to snake it down. They don't
have to be completely uniform. You pull the uneven part to the edge
and if it gets too uneven, you can either cut the edge off, or patch
places that are thin. Breshnehan learned this from the porcelain
potters in Kyushu.
Traditionally, you threw some on one
piece, then you moved to another to attach a coil. Working with
several pots, by the time you get back to the first one, the wall is
stiff enough to hold another coil. I use a torch and put the new
coil on right away. This method deals with several of the problems
people here were talking about having:
Someone said they had trouble throwing longer than their arm. But
with the coil and throw method, you don't have to reach that far in.
Someone asked about throwing large with soft clay. Doing the coil
and throw method, you dry the lower wall so it is strong enough to
hold more coils.
There is no need to center massive amounts of clay with this
method. I typically throw a bowl shape to start and then add
coils. You can also throw large platters this way. I've seen
video of Shinsaku Hamada making the large platters on a Korean kickwheel
by the coil and throw method. He pulled up a tall cylinder and then
laid the walls down to make a platter.
This is good for clay that cracks easily because you can pound
and compress the bottom very well. Actually, I have trimmed a foot
onto the base before coil throwing the rest of the pot. If you make a
pot this way, it can be dried very quickly, because the bottom has a
head start on drying.
There is another method I learned from John Reeve. It is
also a way to throw twice as long as your arm, with no problem. It is
the method used on some of the very tall old english pitchers. This
is why the often have funny pinched, wavey bases.
Throw a pancake for the base. Set it
aside. Then throw a bottomless cylinder, thinking upside down,
shape what you are pulling up to be the bottom of the pot. Torch it
or let it dry and then attach the pancake to be the base of the pot.
If you are careful, you can leave the wire cut on the bottom of the
pancake or, if you throw it with enough thickness, you can trim a foot.
Let dry, or dry with a torch, then flip the cylinder over and attach the
new bottom to the bat with clay. What you have in the air is the
thick end of the cylinder. Pull this up to finish the top of the piece.
So, you don't need Tanuki (Japanese Racoon Dog) Testicles to
throw big, tall or wide. You just gotta use your head. If
you use your head, you can save your body. If you save your body, you
can still make pots, even huge ones, in your old age.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
claybair on tue 28 sep 04
WOW!!!,
What a fabulous posting.....
Usually I am a visual learner but
your posting was so well written I
could see exactly what you described.
Very exciting..... after my dinner set orders
are done and delivered I'm taking a printout
of your posting into the studio and have at it!
Thanks,
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Love
Was too busy to respond earlier, when this topic first
made the rounds again for this cycle. I didn't notice anybody talking
about coil and throw this go-round, so I thought I'd better speak up.
Center and throwing "heroic" amounts of clay is one of those
"problems" created by modern technology: trying to conform the human
body to the electric wheel. It is either difficult or impossible to
do this kind of throwing on low momentum wooden wheels. All the large
stoneware was traditionally either coil and throw, coil and paddle or
thrown in sections and then assembled. I blame the electric wheel
manufacturer's ads for getting the idea of the need to center and
throw large amounts of clay into people's heads.
Snip>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 29 sep 04
Dear Lee Love,
A good summary of ways to get to new heights.
Then the problems start for many people.
Glazing inside as well as the out !
Getting a kiln (or access to one) in which to fire the things!
Having facilities or labour to assist with loading.!
Getting customers who have deep enough pockets to pay!
Antoinette was asking about a new kiln recently. She suggested some of
her size limitations on the work she wishes to produce. It struck me
at the time that the kiln with a loading volume of eight cubic foot
she may have been offered would in no way have been large enough for
the product which Antoinette intended processing.
To process some of the sizes you infer might need a loading volume of
125 Cu Ft if there were multiples to be fired. For Antoinette I would
have guessed around 27 Cu Ft or more might be needed.
I suppose people who buy wheels with a lot of grunt need to justify
the additional power.
What ever happened to "Small is Beautiful"
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 28 September 2004 8:47
Subject: : throwing big (while respecting your Body.)
> Was too busy to respond earlier, when this topic
first
> made the rounds again for this cycle. I didn't notice anybody
talking
> about coil and throw this go-round, so I thought I'd better speak
up.
>
> Center and throwing "heroic" amounts of clay is one of
those
> "problems" created by modern technology: trying to conform the
human
> body to the electric wheel. It is either difficult or impossible
to
> do this kind of throwing on low momentum wooden wheels. All the
large
> stoneware was traditionally either coil and throw, coil and paddle
or
> thrown in sections and then assembled. I blame the electric wheel
> manufacturer's ads for getting the idea of the need to center and
> throw large amounts of clay into people's heads.
>
> Jean picked up a new NHK video (our bookstore, that used to do
video
> rental is ending the practice and is selling off their stock at 300
yen
> each.) There is some footage Hamada throwing tsubo on his hand
> wheel. I started throwing larger work the "coil and throw"
method
> after the first time I saw him on video using this method to make
larger
> things. On the new video, the middle of the pot looks like it is
a
> half inch out of center.
>
> Also, when I visited Shiho Kanzaki in Shigaraki last summer.
I
> was surprised to find out that he throw all his work, coil and
throw.
> I said to him, "You even throw yunomi coil and throw?" He said,
"I
> throw everything this way." He said all Shigaraki ware was
> traditionally thrown this way. Actually, I imagine that throwing
> Shigaraki clay with stones in it on an electric wheel with the speed
we
> are addicted ,to would make hamburger of your hands. I recall
burning
> my hands on my Shimpo Gold when I threw high grog Raku clay on it
too fast.
>
> I was first saw a live person use the coil and throw
> method at a Richard Breshnehan workshop. He brought a Korean
> mahogany kickwheel made for him by the monks at St. John's to a
workshop
> at Northern Clay Center. It was mounted on a plate of steel, so
it
> was portable. I learned from Richard that you don't need an
> extruder or pug mill to make coils. He took plugs as big as your
arm
> and rolled them between his hands to make a smaller coil. I do
this,
> or I put a fatter coil on a wareboard to snake it down. They
don't
> have to be completely uniform. You pull the uneven part to the
edge
> and if it gets too uneven, you can either cut the edge off, or patch
> places that are thin. Breshnehan learned this from the porcelain
> potters in Kyushu.
> Traditionally, you threw some on one
> piece, then you moved to another to attach a coil. Working with
> several pots, by the time you get back to the first one, the wall is
> stiff enough to hold another coil. I use a torch and put the new
> coil on right away. This method deals with several of the
problems
> people here were talking about having:
>
> Someone said they had trouble throwing longer than their arm.
But
> with the coil and throw method, you don't have to reach that far
in.
>
> Someone asked about throwing large with soft clay. Doing the
coil
> and throw method, you dry the lower wall so it is strong enough to
> hold more coils.
>
> There is no need to center massive amounts of clay with this
> method. I typically throw a bowl shape to start and then add
> coils. You can also throw large platters this way. I've seen
> video of Shinsaku Hamada making the large platters on a Korean
kickwheel
> by the coil and throw method. He pulled up a tall cylinder and
then
> laid the walls down to make a platter.
>
> This is good for clay that cracks easily because you can
pound
> and compress the bottom very well. Actually, I have trimmed a
foot
> onto the base before coil throwing the rest of the pot. If you
make a
> pot this way, it can be dried very quickly, because the bottom has a
> head start on drying.
>
> There is another method I learned from John Reeve. It
is
> also a way to throw twice as long as your arm, with no problem. It
is
> the method used on some of the very tall old english pitchers.
This
> is why the often have funny pinched, wavey bases.
>
> Throw a pancake for the base. Set it
> aside. Then throw a bottomless cylinder, thinking upside down,
> shape what you are pulling up to be the bottom of the pot. Torch
it
> or let it dry and then attach the pancake to be the base of the pot.
> If you are careful, you can leave the wire cut on the bottom of the
> pancake or, if you throw it with enough thickness, you can trim a
foot.
> Let dry, or dry with a torch, then flip the cylinder over and attach
the
> new bottom to the bat with clay. What you have in the air is the
> thick end of the cylinder. Pull this up to finish the top of the
piece.
>
> So, you don't need Tanuki (Japanese Racoon Dog) Testicles
to
> throw big, tall or wide. You just gotta use your head.
If
> you use your head, you can save your body. If you save your body,
you
> can still make pots, even huge ones, in your old age.
>
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
> http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
>
>
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claybair on fri 1 oct 04
Ivor,
Small is beautiful.... but it does have some drawbacks.
Being under 5ft. I can attest to not being able to reach
things on shelves, see over heads at concerts or movies,
or be found by my family in a crowded place to name a few.
Now regarding pottery... I just did a test this past week.
I have been making plates with a fairly labor intensive
design. Our local gallery had their annual Almost Perfect
sale. I submitted plates and a platter. The plates were much
less flawed than the platter. The platter was oval about 15",
too heavy had warped slightly with the same design as the plates.
I charged $60 for the platter $24 for 9" plates, $28 for the 11" plates.
The platter sold while the plates did not.
So my lessons learned:
1. Bigger is better!
2. Forget the plates unless someone orders a set.
2. Make platters and charge more.
I'll make more $ with less effort.
I knew this was true but have fought it.
It took a while but after repeatedly
seeing really ugly big work sell better
that beautiful small work I have come up
with a plan I can live with......
make Big Beautiful work!!!! Duh!!!
Gayle Bair - Vertically challenged...
ask the Mayor he'll attest it's true!
I think I came up to his armpit!
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
What ever happened to "Small is Beautiful"
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 3 oct 04
Dear Gayle,
You have me at a disadvantage. My vertical challenge is to walk out
from the studio under the roller door and remember to duck when I did
not given
it a good boost to lift it !
Your plate/platter experience. I would be hard pushed to explain.
Perhaps the plates lacked some form or visual, tactile or formal
qualities that one person attributed to the platter.
But I like your attitude <> I know you
will be successful with that.
Best regards,
Ivor
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