pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 4 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Hi Ron,
So far as the old "Burns-O-Matic" way of faith, being the
general design of all the small screw-on-bottle-types I am
aware of, of propane hand-held Torches...anything, such as
swilling the liquid in the tank, tipping it, or what as may
by effect increase the rate of the liquid evaporating into
Gas, will tend to increase the size of the flame at any
given setting of the little adjusting knob...
No big deal...
Just is...
Anyway, I do not think any of them care what angle they are
held at, or changed to, just so one is familiar with how
when changing angles, the flame will tend to increase
somewhat in size/heat...
Hell, I never minded the smell of singed hair anyway, did
you?
Naaaaaah...
Best wishes,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Roy"
> Should someone mention - some torches need to be kept
upright - or are
> there some that don't mind being tipped?
>
> RR
>
> >At 02:58 PM 10/2/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Snail,
> >>Would it not be safer to just unplug/flip the breaker on
the kiln and use a
> >>propane torch to heat the element to red heat.
> >
> >
> >Of course. I was only trying to propose a no-
> >equipment option to someone who is new enough
> >to perhaps have no tools on hand. Not everyone
> >has a torch - everyone who's trying to fix a
> >kiln DOES have a kiln, though!
> >
> >I had forgotten, though, that Sincultura's
> >kiln was shorting out to its jacket - not a
> >good idea to turn it on just to push an element
> >back!
> >
> >A torch is certainly a better option in any
> >case.
> >
> > -Snail
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
>
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Steve Slatin on tue 5 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Phil, Ron --
I seem to remember in the '60's the Bernz folks
advertized their product as being different, and
able to burn even upside down. Unless they were
selling on a totally bogus issue (always a
possibility!) there must have been an issue with some
of the other torches and angle when burning.
I have a clearer recollection in a shop class being
warned of the risk of getting the liquid propane into
the valve assembly, potentially either blowing out
the flame or exploding in your hand. That may have
been just an old wives' tale, though. Also I nearly
flunked mechanical drawing that semester, so all my
recollections may be fuzzy there. Nonetheless,
I never let the tank approach horizontal.
-- Steve S.
--- pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> So far as the old "Burns-O-Matic" way of faith,
> being the
> general design of all the small
> screw-on-bottle-types I am
> aware of, of propane hand-held Torches...anything,
> such as
=====
Steve Slatin -- Lies told, whiskey hauled, widows tended.
Sequim, Washington, USA
__________________________________________________
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 5 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Hi Steve, Ron, all...
I have used these little "Burns-O-Matic" outfits a good deal
through the years, and have used them at every angle, and at
extremes of ambient tempatures, and I
have no complaints about them - they work well horizontally,
up-side-down, or whatever and have been very handy for all
sorts of things.
When the unit is kept in the same position, the flame will
will remain constant according to the adjustment of the
knob-valve, but, when the position of the whole, of the
tank-and-top-valve as a unit, is changed, tilted or shaken,
the flame size will be effected, usually, temporarily, but
sometimes it seems to stay...if one wishes, one merely
adjusts the knob to return to the flame size one wanted.
Too, they used to make a flexible extention which had the
same base valve on it for screwing into the tank's top, for
allowing you to set the tank where-ever, and have three feet
or something of hose with a little handle holding the burner
on the end. This would certainly alleviate the likelyhood of
changing the tank's angle in use.
The same size tanks, but as contain "Map Gas" are available
and interchangable, and the Map Gas burns quite a bit
hotter. This is handy if one has some Copper Pipe soldering
to do at higher elevations, for one thing, or, to just have
more heat for whatever reason.
Sometimes I have been using one and had a little 'poof'
happen, where the flame is occuring at the base of the vale
on the tank's top. One may simply blow it out, tighten the
valve-top's copnnection to the tank, or, turn the metering
knob off and it will go out soon enough.
Some people panic or become upset if the little 'poof'
occurs, instead of just dealing with it calmly. Usually, it
is from picking up a torch and starting to use it without
checking for tightness of the screw-on-valve and burner
components.
In theory, one should remove the valve/burner from the tank
when not useing it, and screw them on when you intend to use
it, but no one I ever head of ever does that...
Best wishes,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Slatin"
> Phil, Ron --
>
> I seem to remember in the '60's the Bernz folks
> advertized their product as being different, and
> able to burn even upside down. Unless they were
> selling on a totally bogus issue (always a
> possibility!) there must have been an issue with some
> of the other torches and angle when burning.
>
> I have a clearer recollection in a shop class being
> warned of the risk of getting the liquid propane into
> the valve assembly, potentially either blowing out
> the flame or exploding in your hand. That may have
> been just an old wives' tale, though. Also I nearly
> flunked mechanical drawing that semester, so all my
> recollections may be fuzzy there. Nonetheless,
> I never let the tank approach horizontal.
>
> -- Steve S.
>
> --- pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
>
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> >
> >
> > So far as the old "Burns-O-Matic" way of faith,
> > being the
> > general design of all the small
> > screw-on-bottle-types I am
> > aware of, of propane hand-held Torches...anything,
> > such as
>
> =====
> Steve Slatin -- Lies told, whiskey hauled, widows tended.
> Sequim, Washington, USA
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around
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>
>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Linda Ferzoco on tue 5 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Among other wasted hours of my life, I've spent many watching cooking
shows. Know what I mean? How many times have we seen those chefs
melt sugar on top of a custard, using the torch upside down? Tons of
times. I think perhaps the newer ones, both regular and kitchen
varieties, must have some kind of check valve.
Cheers, Linda
--- Steve Slatin wrote:
> Phil, Ron --
>
> I seem to remember in the '60's the Bernz folks
> advertized their product as being different, and
> able to burn even upside down. Unless they were
> selling on a totally bogus issue (always a
> possibility!) there must have been an issue with some
> of the other torches and angle when burning.
>
Ron Roy on wed 6 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the reply.
The smell of singing hair always got my attention real quick - cause the
next feeling was going to be pain.
I just dug out the instructions for my little BernzOmatic cane type weed
burner - just to make sure.
Quote from instructions: "Always use the burner with the cylinder (propane
or MAPP gas) in the upright position. If tilted towards the horizontal
position liquid gas will reach the burner tip, generating a large yellow
flame."
Not recommended when you are bending over a kiln - and especially if your
head is in it.
Perhaps there are other type burners that can be used - like upside down?
RR
>So far as the old "Burns-O-Matic" way of faith, being the
>general design of all the small screw-on-bottle-types I am
>aware of, of propane hand-held Torches...anything, such as
>swilling the liquid in the tank, tipping it, or what as may
>by effect increase the rate of the liquid evaporating into
>Gas, will tend to increase the size of the flame at any
>given setting of the little adjusting knob...
>Anyway, I do not think any of them care what angle they are
>held at, or changed to, just so one is familiar with how
>when changing angles, the flame will tend to increase
>somewhat in size/heat...
>
>Hell, I never minded the smell of singed hair anyway, did
>you?
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 6 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
Hi Ron,
It is merely that the flame gets a little bigger...
One merely adjusts the metering knob to elect the size flame
one prefers to have in 'that' position of the jug...and, if
one likes, one trys not to agitate it too much when changing
angles or tilts.
I was useing mine for several hours at-a-stretch recently,
to roast and semi-liquify ( to loosen, and scrape off with a
puddy-knife and then vigorously address with toothbrush size
wire brush, while "hot", of ) the general old Oil seepage
'asphalt-like' encrustations that had formed on the
grease-fittings, spring shackles and so on of an 71 year old
Car. Half sitting scrunched up under-inside a fender,
getting at the backing plates and so on, getting to the
various sides of the drag link, tie-rod ends and spindle
arms and so on...got the differential all clean
too...necessitates the "Berns-O-Matic" propane jug outfit be
held at many differeing angles.
I know of no better method to acomplish this. And I never
heard of anyone else doing it either. Without this method,
the chore of getting all that old hard asphalt-like stuff
off there, is really entirely miserable, dusty, awkward, and
hard to do by mere scraping or other. The heat of the flame
makes all the difference as for softening and semi melting
it...so you can get it off...get things clean.
Likely, the manufacture is telling people not to do it (
tilt the outfit) , rather than just explaining to them
how-to-do-it...that is, since the flame will get 'bigger' if
you tilt, slosh, agitate or tip the thing, some people, if
not familiar with that characteristic, might panic or feel
surprised, or be unprepared, become confused, or not deal
with it well...
Anyway, impirically, I can tell of no disappointment of
complaint in my experiences with them...and I like this
device-product very much for many tasks. I have allways been
happy with them and glad they exist.
(I was just kidding about the smell of burning hair, as an
allusion to being unprepared for the flame getting 'bigger'
when you agitate or slosh the thing...)
Plumbers (sweating Copper Pipe joins and so on) routinely
enjoy all the same logistical angles, sloshes, tilts and
flame-size effects as I do, in their Work, with no
complaints from them about it that I ever heard of...
Best wishes,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Roy"
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> The smell of singing hair always got my attention real
quick - cause the
> next feeling was going to be pain.
>
> I just dug out the instructions for my little BernzOmatic
cane type weed
> burner - just to make sure.
>
> Quote from instructions: "Always use the burner with the
cylinder (propane
> or MAPP gas) in the upright position. If tilted towards
the horizontal
> position liquid gas will reach the burner tip, generating
a large yellow
> flame."
>
> Not recommended when you are bending over a kiln - and
especially if your
> head is in it.
>
> Perhaps there are other type burners that can be used -
like upside down?
>
> RR
>
>
> >So far as the old "Burns-O-Matic" way of faith, being the
> >general design of all the small screw-on-bottle-types I
am
> >aware of, of propane hand-held Torches...anything, such
as
> >swilling the liquid in the tank, tipping it, or what as
may
> >by effect increase the rate of the liquid evaporating
into
> >Gas, will tend to increase the size of the flame at any
> >given setting of the little adjusting knob...
>
> >Anyway, I do not think any of them care what angle they
are
> >held at, or changed to, just so one is familiar with how
> >when changing angles, the flame will tend to increase
> >somewhat in size/heat...
> >
> >Hell, I never minded the smell of singed hair anyway, did
> >you?
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on wed 6 oct 04
small propane Torch matters...
One caution to anyone using a torch for whatever reason...and that's
torch, as in American English...the gas filled cylinder spouting
flame, not the British version... which is a flashlight:
Propane is put into cylinders as a liquid. As such, the flame
should always be above the level of the liquid, or flame-out or
incomplete combustion can occur. Mapp gas is subject to the same
caveat.
Butane, however, is stored as a much faster-volatizing liquid. It
becomes a gas almost instantaneously. Butane torches can be used in
almost any position (though I wouldn't recommend putting the flame
directly beneath the cylinder...DUH!) In the US, butane is used for
cigareete lighters, chef's browning torches...smaller applications.
Torches in the US are also available in the plumber's variety, which
is a burner assembly attached to the tank via a hose, and is
appropriately enough, called a "hose torch". The hose is usually
about a meter (3 ft.) in length. You can then _safely_ use the
torch in any position, while the tank sits pleasantly undisturbed
under/near your wheel/workbench.
You also don't have to lift the weight of the propane with a hose
torch setup.
Hose torches are not that expensive, about $49. Certainly less
expensive than the cost of an accident, carpal tunnel syndrome, and
the like. Best of all, they now come in push button ignition
varieties.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ron Roy
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 2:25 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln elements question. please help a newbie - Now,
small propane Torch matters...
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the reply.
The smell of singing hair always got my attention real quick - cause
the
next feeling was going to be pain.
I just dug out the instructions for my little BernzOmatic cane type
weed
burner - just to make sure.
Quote from instructions: "Always use the burner with the cylinder
(propane
or MAPP gas) in the upright position. If tilted towards the
horizontal
position liquid gas will reach the burner tip, generating a large
yellow
flame."
Not recommended when you are bending over a kiln - and especially if
your
head is in it.
Perhaps there are other type burners that can be used - like upside
down?
RR
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