Paul Lewing on fri 8 oct 04
on 10/8/04 9:17 AM, John Jensen at mudbug@TOAD.NET wrote:
> For myself, I think spelling mistakes are
> unacceptable or barely so in an E-mail. I'm just a little bit of a
> fanatic about that;
John, I was glad to hear you say that. I am, too, and I hoped after I
posted that message that you didn't think I was attacking you or had thought
that you condoned this "artist's" behavior. The part about "surely you're
joking" just popped out because I'd been talking to someone about the
wonderful book "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feinman".
Someone mentioned the possibility that she might be dyslexic. I say, "So
what?" That just means she should have gotten someone more capable of
spelling to review the work for her.
I agree with Vince, it's amazing that this is even being discussed as if
there are two sides to the issue. Her explanation that "it was the art
talking" or whatever, is BS. Sounds like the old Flip Wilson routine- "The
devil made me do it!" Just the kind of nonsense that gives artists a bad
name. And the library board should be ashamed of themselves for being so
politically correct that they don't feel they can criticize "art". If
they'd hired a sign painter who'd made a sign for them that read "Coviton
Pubic Libary", would they have paid the sign painter extra to fix it? Of
course not.
But I do know how this can happen. I'm a spelling fanatic myself, and I
once did a tile mural that had a Bible verse on it. I did exactly what one
other poster mentioned here in their "Paris in the the spring" example. I
repeated the word "the". I looked at it carefully before I fired it, and
after, it sat on my table for at least a week, where I saw it all day,
several other people saw it- no one noticed. It was the client himself who
spotted it the minute he first saw it. It was embarrassing, but I was sure
glad someone caught it before it was installed. I, of course, fixed it at
no charge.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Wes Rolley on fri 8 oct 04
At 12:00 AM 10/9/04 -0400, you wrote:
>the
>library should have hired local artists to repair the mistakes.
Vince,
That is not legal. While the library owns the work and can destroy it if they like, the artist still has rights to the work and the library can NOT change the work without the artist's permission.
Actually, the concept of "work for hire" gets this messy, but I do believe I am right about being able to modify the artist's work.
Wes
John Jensen on fri 8 oct 04
Mr. Lewing;
Thanks for the reply. For myself, I think spelling mistakes are
unacceptable or barely so in an E-mail. I'm just a little bit of a
fanatic about that; so I would be extremely upset if I submitted a work
with misspelled words, and would doubtlessly make the corrections at my
own expense. In fact, I have had to make such corrections in the past.
What I want to consider is the possibility that a person might be
forgiven for overlooking some such errors...that it is something that
might easily happen, particularly to someone who has devoted their life
to visual arts and may be not really comfortable with words. I wanted
to offer a slight countervailing opinion. I'm all in favor of
craftsmanship, including spelling; but I do see how one might become
blind to one's spelling errors. Interesting that the artist had the
work on hand for two years and no-one saw the mistakes. Reading the
artists rational about her mistakes, I felt an urge to say, "Bullshit."
Even so, I don't want to be quick to be on the criticism bandwagon. So
I guess I must say, I wasn't joking; but have reservations about my
position.
As far as the discussion on money is concerned, it seems we agree.
The mural was circular...16 feet in diameter. Or so I read.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
Surely you're joking, Mr. Jensen! One is too many on a job like that.
There's no excuse for that
Linda Ferzoco on fri 8 oct 04
It gets worse. She won't even fix it now - see this:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state1245EDT0047.DTL
This woman isn't helping artists' image.
Linda
California
Bonnie/Jeremy Hellman on fri 8 oct 04
Sounds like a business opportunity for another enterprising ceramic artist.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Ferzoco"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: When an artist goofs.../Joking$
> It gets worse. She won't even fix it now - see this:
>
> http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state1245EDT0047.DTL
>
> This woman isn't helping artists' image.
>
> Linda
> California
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Mary K on fri 8 oct 04
Inexcusable....what a Prima Dona !! Mary K.
Linda Ferzoco wrote:It gets worse. She won't even fix it now - see this:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state1245EDT0047.DTL
This woman isn't helping artists' image.
Linda
California
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John Jensen on fri 8 oct 04
I read the article referenced below and must say: It seems that the
quickness of the "Art Community" to attack this artist has been counter
productive. One might think this woman isn't helping the artist's
image, but the community isn't helping the artist either. I think the
greater damage to the so called "artist image" is the way the art
community tends to devour its own. I'm sure steelworkers, cops,
longshoreman, and even organized criminals have greater solidarity.
Not to say the artist didn't make some mistakes.....I would agree that
her mistakes were serious. But my position is that we should look on
the situation with a kindly, humane eye. Whereas the artist was willing
to correct the mistake, now she is so traumatized by the criticism that
she would rather just forget about the whole thing.
I'm not talking about the quality of her work as a whole, nor am I
suggesting that I would have handled things as she did. If it were I, I
hope I wouldn't have made the mistakes. And I would have corrected them
if it cost me all the money I made.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
It gets worse. She won't even fix it now - see this:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state12
45EDT0047.DTL
This woman isn't helping artists' image.
Linda
California
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on fri 8 oct 04
Mel...go get your stick, will you? Someone needs a "reality check".
Sorry. Artistic license does NOT include misspelling words.
"The art chose the words??!!" What a crock of Minnesota Mule
manure! The woman should be sealed into a 200 pound vessel
and wood fired at cone 14 for the time it takes for her to come to
her senses...say about 72 hours. It's called a DICTIONARY!!!!
If that's what it means to be an "artist", I want no part of it.
I'll stay a potter.
But at least she's in the right place now. No one in Miami speaks
English any more anyhow.
HMPHH!
Wayne Seidl
That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Linda
Ferzoco
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 3:29 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: When an artist goofs.../Joking$
It gets worse. She won't even fix it now - see this:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/news/archive/2004/10/08/sta
te1245EDT0047.DTL
This woman isn't helping artists' image.
Linda
California
Vince Pitelka on fri 8 oct 04
This is an odd discussion. I cannot imagine anyone defending spelling
errors in a mural commision for a library. Is this obvious, or what? There
is absolutely no defense for such mistakes in this situation, and the
library should have hired local artists to repair the mistakes. The artist
who made the errors should not have been paid another dime.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lori Leary on sat 9 oct 04
Sorry, John, but it's not so much that she made the mistakes, they can
be fixed. What IS bad is her refusal to take responsibility for them
and the implication that somehow it is okay because it is *ART*. It
makes other artists and craftspeople look bad, and I am sure that there
are those that might shy away from commissioning any sort of public
art. Her posturing really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And now she
is taking her toys and going home to sulk.
Sheesh, what an ass.
Lori L.
John Jensen wrote:
>I read the article referenced below and must say: It seems that the
>quickness of the "Art Community" to attack this artist has been counter
>productive. One might think this woman isn't helping the artist's
>image, but the community isn't helping the artist either. I think the
>greater damage to the so called "artist image" is the way the art
>community tends to devour its own. I'm sure steelworkers, cops,
>longshoreman, and even organized criminals have greater solidarity.
> Not to say the artist didn't make some mistakes.....I would agree that
>her mistakes were serious. But my position is that we should look on
>the situation with a kindly, humane eye. Whereas the artist was willing
>to correct the mistake, now she is so traumatized by the criticism that
>she would rather just forget about the whole thing.
> I'm not talking about the quality of her work as a whole, nor am I
>suggesting that I would have handled things as she did. If it were I, I
>hope I wouldn't have made the mistakes. And I would have corrected them
>if it cost me all the money I made.
>
>
>
Earl Brunner on sat 9 oct 04
Now she says she won't come and fix it. They need to sue her. If they have
paid her in full they may be stuck and it's their own fault. Who signed off
on it?
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Wes Rolley
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:26 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: When an artist goofs.../Joking$
At 12:00 AM 10/9/04 -0400, you wrote:
>the
>library should have hired local artists to repair the mistakes.
Vince,
That is not legal. While the library owns the work and can destroy it if
they like, the artist still has rights to the work and the library can NOT
change the work without the artist's permission.
Actually, the concept of "work for hire" gets this messy, but I do believe I
am right about being able to modify the artist's work.
Wes
____________________________________________________________________________
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 9 oct 04
There was comment today on "Nightly Business News" . The suggestion
was made that the artist should check that the City Accountant spells
their artists name correctly when the cheque is collected.
Regards,
Ivor.
Kim Lindaberry on sat 9 oct 04
I think that if it is legal to modify the work of an artist or not may
depend on where the artwork is. It could also depend on the contract
between the parties involved. I believe here in the US there are
differences from state to state so certainly that are differences from
country to country.
Kim
On Oct 9, 2004, at 12:25 AM, Wes Rolley wrote:
> At 12:00 AM 10/9/04 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> the
>> library should have hired local artists to repair the mistakes.
>
> Vince,
>
> That is not legal. While the library owns the work and can destroy it
> if they like, the artist still has rights to the work and the library
> can NOT change the work without the artist's permission.
>
> Actually, the concept of "work for hire" gets this messy, but I do
> believe I am right about being able to modify the artist's work.
>
> Wes
Kate Johnson on sat 9 oct 04
>I think that if it is legal to modify the work of an artist or not may
> depend on where the artwork is. It could also depend on the contract
> between the parties involved. I believe here in the US there are
> differences from state to state so certainly that are differences from
> country to country.
I think you're right, Kim. When I do illustrations for a magazine,
sometimes they appear in print changed. I'm not usually thrilled, but I
don't threaten to sue, either, because it's a work for hire. If someone
messed with one of my paintings, on the other hand, here in the US at any
rate--well, they're protected by copyright, whether or not I actually
register them--at least that's my understanding.
In the instance in question, yes, I'd say it depended on the contract
between the library and the artist...
Too bad it happened, eh?
And Mel, BOY can I ever relate to the Calligrapher's Shreik!
Regards,
Kate Johnson
Graphics/Fine Arts
http://www.cathyjohnson.info/
http://www.epsi.net/graphic/
http://www.ebsqart.com/Artists/cmd_1494_profile.htm
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