John Jensen on sat 9 oct 04
Good reference, Steve;
And one of the problems about a discussion like this is that we don't
know many of the important details. I have no idea or way of learning
the details of the artist's contract.
I probably do use "quote" as a noun, but in future I'm sure I'll feel
uncomfortable. I guess one should say, "quotation"
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
Subject: Re: When Artists Goof...spelling
What the artist didn't do was to refer the the
numerous spellings of Shakespeare -- one web page
on the subject lists 20 different spellings in
non-literary references and 12 in literary references.
(http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html)
-- Steve Slatin (who still refuses to use "quote" as
a noun)
John Jensen on sat 9 oct 04
I love correct spelling. I have a dictionary in the glove compartment of
all my cars, in my studio, by my sofa, in the office, by the bed. I love
to look up words and believe in knowing the accepted spelling.
Wasn't it not so long ago that spellings of words in this country
varied from region to region and from person to person. Not everyone
agreed on the spelling of words and there were many variations which
might be considered acceptable. How have we come to the point where
spelling is so rigidly defined? We still allow creative personal and
regional speech, which if spelled phonetically would vary widely. Why
are so many of us outraged that an artist would accept words spelled
differently than the accepted norm? (Yes, I know these are actually
names, not words)
If the tiles contained variations of other standards would we be so
upset?
Would we insist that the work be corrected if there were variations in
perspective, or if certain color combinations violated the rules of some
interior decorator, or school of architecture. Would we insist that the
nose on the portrait of Shakespeare be within the range of realistic
noses?
Apparently the artist gave little thought to spelling, so we can guess
that concern for spelling was outside of her artistic process and
vision. It is her process, her vision, her work of art. And it is our
hang-up on spelling which is out of whack. The mural isn't supposed to
be a sign, or a list of artists. It's a work of art and the artist if
free to do anything she wants within the framework of the piece and in
accordance with the contract with the school. If she agrees to change a
few tiles, then that is her choice and if she decides not to that is her
deal to make.
Doesn't seem like the end of the world to me if there is a misspelling
in a work of art. Might make for some interesting reading..."find the
misspelled names."
Some of us have been very quick to defend artists who have done some
work on the edge of what is considered normal. I'm thinking of some
pizza boxes with the word "fear" written on them which were installed in
a train station. (as I recall) Perhaps the artist's defenders might
have recanted if the word had been spelled differently...feare, or feer,
or fier.
Having fun in Annapolis.......
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
This is an odd discussion. I cannot imagine anyone defending spelling
errors in a mural commision for a library. Is this obvious, or what? =
There
is absolutely no defense for such mistakes in this situation, and the
library should have hired local artists to repair the mistakes. The =
artist
who made the errors should not have been paid another dime.
Best wishes -
- Vince
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John Rodgers on sat 9 oct 04
John Jensen wrote:
>I love correct spelling. I have a dictionary in the glove compartment of
>all my cars, in my studio, by my sofa, in the office, by the bed. I love
>to look up words and believe in knowing the accepted spelling.
>
>
Hmmm, I too love correct spelling, though I often goof it up. But still,
to me, correct spelling is part of correct speech. And if you can't
contruct spoken or written communications using the framework of our
language then it is like trying to build a house in a wind using loose
straw. I try, I make an effort to get to get it right, this written and
spoken word, and to make the spelling correct. It was hammered into me
by a Mother who was a school teacher. I and all of my siblings caught
the very devil when we didn't do it correctly. When we would get sloppy
we were asked "Are you poor white trash???" and then we were told "You
KNOW better so DO it better!!! ,,,,, and I better not hear you say
things that way again!!" It was made very clear that we were to aim
high, and not settle for the average, sloppy street use of the language,
both written and spoken. I have no regrets about that teaching. I'm
better for it. I think we all would be. IMHO
Don't settle ..... aim high!
Regards,
John Rodgers
Steve Slatin on sat 9 oct 04
John --
I honor correct spelling too, and made the effort to
learn it as well as I could, though as a dyslexic it's
always been somewhat problematic for me.
What the artist didn't do was to refer the the
numerous spellings of Shakespeare -- one web page
on the subject lists 20 different spellings in
non-literary references and 12 in literary references.
(http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html)
I wonder if the grant contract for the work specified
the individuals to be depicted?
-- Steve Slatin (who still refuses to use "quote" as
a noun)
--- John Jensen wrote:
> I love correct spelling. I have a dictionary in the
> glove compartment of
> all my cars, in my studio, by my sofa, in the
> office, by the bed. I love
> to look up words and believe in knowing the accepted
> spelling.
> Wasn't it not so long ago that spellings of words
> in this country
> varied from region to region and from person to
> person. Not everyone
> agreed on the spelling of words and there were many
> variations which
> might be considered acceptable. How have we come to
> the point where
> spelling is so rigidly defined? We still allow
> creative personal and
> regional speech, which if spelled phonetically would
> vary widely. Why
> are so many of us outraged that an artist would
> accept words spelled
> differently than the accepted norm? (Yes, I know
> these are actually
> names, not words)
=====
Steve Slatin -- Lies told, whiskey hauled, widows tended.
Sequim, Washington, USA
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Bruce Freund on sun 10 oct 04
I am a little shocked by all of the suggestions folks on Clayart have made
that the lady who misspeled (yes, I know) the names on the tiles "LIE" her
way out..
--
Best of the Best,
Bruce Freund
Mert & Holly Kilpatrick on sun 10 oct 04
John makes an interesting socio-historical point, an intellectual curiosity.
Not that I support the artist under discussion in this case. But in doing
genealogy research, and reading original handwritten material up to the
mid-1800's and even a little later, you will see a word spelled in different
ways on the same page by the same writer. And names were the worst! I have
documentation of people spelling their own names differently at different
times through their lives. I am not sure if this is a reflection of
education level or societal norm. In other words, in 1780 was there one
correct spelling, and it's just that many people didn't know it? Or was the
concept of one correct spelling not generally recognized?
However, this woman isn't living in 1780, and unless she is mocking the
institution of the library, where knowledge is collected because it is
considered valuable, she would have done better to conform to current norms!
Holly
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Jensen
>
>I love correct spelling. I have a dictionary in the glove compartment of
>all my cars, in my studio, by my sofa, in the office, by the bed. I love
>to look up words and believe in knowing the accepted spelling.
> Wasn't it not so long ago that spellings of words in this country
>varied from region to region and from person to person. Not everyone
>agreed on the spelling of words and there were many variations which
>might be considered acceptable. How have we come to the point where
>spelling is so rigidly defined? We still allow creative personal and
>regional speech, which if spelled phonetically would vary widely. Why
>are so many of us outraged that an artist would accept words spelled
>differently than the accepted norm? (Yes, I know these are actually
>names, not words)
Eleanor on sun 10 oct 04
John Rodgers wrote:
> It was made very clear that we were to aim
>high, and not settle for the average, sloppy street use of the language,
>both written and spoken
I remember, just vaguely, an episode of the original Star Trek (with
William Shatner) in which they came upon an alien civilization --this
was in the 25th century-- which had a religious (?) ritual using
magical, sacred words the import and meaning of which had long since
been lost. The Aliens spoke English, as did all aliens in that series
(!), of course.
Finally, a crew member figured it out. The garbled, misspelled,
mispronounced words were from ancient American documents like the
Declaration of Independence, the Emancipation Proclamation or the
Bill of Rights. And what came out was gibberish!
Language has to evolve. We need new words to describe new things:
back in the 20's did anyone ever hear of "television"? I think most
modern people have settled on "Shakespeare" as correct, but there has
never been controversy about Einstein, Gaughan or even Feynman for
that matter :-) and, like John Rodger's mother, I find the
misspellings in the mural totally unacceptable.
If our civilization survives into the future, posterity will be
reading what we write. If misspelling and misuse persist
it could be that English will become so much gibberish as it was for
the aliens. Already one needs copious marginal notes in order to read
Chaucer.
I imagine "alright" will survive. Too bad.
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY
Fredrick Paget on sun 10 oct 04
Interesting how many people are getting exercised about the spelling
errors - if indeed they be such. Seems to me her best line would have
been that the errors were there as a kind of test of the viewers. Not
many must have noticed if the thing was all finished and she had
moved away to Florida before the fat hit the fire.
Non Europeans evidently don't have this horror of errors. I saw
plenty of them in museums and public places in China. Of course I was
looking at the English translations of Chinese signs. Some of them
were about what you might expect from a 2nd year student of English.
Cast in bronze too, some of them. Since Chinese is an ideographic
language I guess you can't spell it wrong or it would mean something
totally different.
Fred Padgett er, I mean Pagett, oops! Paget.
--
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
fredrick@well.com
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