primalmommy on sat 9 oct 04
John Rodgers wrote:
>I try, I make an effort to get to get it right, this written and
>spoken word, and to make the spelling correct. It was hammered into me
>by a Mother who was a school teacher. I and all of my siblings caught
>the very devil when we didn't do it correctly. When we would get sloppy
>we were asked "Are you poor white trash???" and then we were told "You
>KNOW better so DO it better!!! ,,,,, and I better not hear you say
>things that way again!!" It was made very clear that we were to aim
>high, and not settle for the average, sloppy street use of the
language,
>both written and spoken. I have no regrets about that teaching. I'm
>better for it. I think we all would be. IMHO
>Don't settle ..... aim high!
When I was an English teacher, I required everybody to use standard
English. It is important to master it, even as a second language,
because it is the language of job applications, legal documents,
journalism, and business transactions. Also, it protects people from
racist, regionalist, elitist, etc. assumptions all too common among
potential employers and others in positions of power.
I believe in standard English, but IMO there's no such thing as "proper"
english. My Uncle Bud is a farmer and keeps his teeth in his lunch box;
if the guys he plays horseshoes with say "ain't got no", he's look
pretty foolish saying "i haven't any"... right? So "aint got no" is
proper for that setting.
"sloppy street use" is a blanket that covers all kinds of elaborate,
colorful, intricate dialects, from "the hood" or the village to "insider
jargons" for occupations, the fascinating tapestry of profanities,
shortcuts, inside jokes and leftover bits of speech whose origins are
lost.
I will speak differently giving a lecture to a group of school teachers
than I do drinking wine around the campfire with my women friends. To
me, "proper" speech -- like proper dress- means appropriate to the
situation.
City folks and country folks have a different dialect -- so do teens and
grandparents, white and black, East coast and West. The assumption that
we should all speak like college educated midwestern middle aged white
people is just snobbery. Accepting, of course, that we all have a
working knowledge of standard english for formal situations -- instead
of telling folks they shouldn't use all the verbal colors in their paint
box, how about we question our assumptions about one way being "right"?
I figure once I am out of school nobody gets to grade me. When it comes
to language, I want to use all the varieties of language, not just the
formal ones. If somebody doesn't want to read my posts because they are
misspelled or written in a stream of blathering typos, well, OK. If they
don't want to talk to me because my jeans have quilt patches sewed over
holes in the knees -- their loss. Me, I'll take content over appearance
any time.
In Italy every little region (esp. before mass media) had its own
dialect.. and every region considered its dialect "proper" and everybody
else 'backward".. funny, no?
I have no gripe with you, John.. this is just a pet peeve of mine and
you gave me an opportunity to get out the soap box.
Yours
kelly in Ohio
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Candace Young/Norman Czuchra on sun 10 oct 04
Kelly,
This is the best description of language usage to come along that makes
perfect sense. I've always thought that one needs to use a"proper"
lanuage to suit the situation. Just as the kids on the corner know that
how they speak to each other wouldn't fly in church or the principal's
office (that is if they've got some role models). I used to teach in an
alternative school for teens and when they balked at learning how to used
different language in different situations, I always offered to visit their
homes and conduct my home visit in the same way they insisted was the
correct way to speak if you're a teenager in their culture, expletives
included. None took me up on my offer. While I didn't talk trash with the
kids, I knew that if I was going to communicate with them, I couldn't use
Oxford english and get very far.
Candace
Candace Young Mailto:candace@bayriverpottery.com
Norm Czuchra Mailto:norm@bayriverpottery.com
(252) 745-4749
107 S. Water Street
PO Box 394
Bayboro, NC 28515
http://bayriverpottery.com
John Rodgers on mon 11 oct 04
Kelly, Bravo to you!!
There really is a place and time to speak the vernacular. One must
simply know when it is appropriate.
Once, when working with the US Public Health Service in remote Alaska, a
doctor, performing his daily "Radio Rounds" (daily radio communications
with the Alaska Native Health Aides in each village) used, in the course
of a conversation with one of those aides the word "F**K" in his
language. He was trounced immediately for his indiscretion, but tried to
pass it off as a "Colloquialism". He did not have to use such language
over the airways, nor with an Aide. The man was an ass in my book. "Poor
White Trash", even if he was a doctor. He had not learned the lesson.
My mother was ever the teacher, and to her, having lived through the
great depression and a lot of other difficulties in the Deep South, had
great aspirations for us all, and she had standards to which she
ascribed ..... and buddy-mac ...... we had to also or get our bottoms
tanned. There was no room for compromise. She often used the term "poor
white trash" to draw a line between where we could be and where she
wanted us to go, in terms of education, social standing etc, etc.
She had come from dirt farmers and field hands, and while some of them
were good people, she wanted us to become doctors, lawyers, bankers and
such. In her mind, you could not be "poor white trash" and be those
people for whom she aspired that we be. It simply was not possible. And
we understood what she meant. Truth was, she grew up in a frame house of
sawmill run lumber that had not even been dimensioned properly and was
rough sawn. The exterior walls and inside walls were finished only on
one side, in board and batten fashion, and the studs were exposed. The
ceiling was wooden slabs nailed in place and the roof was tin. At least
it was more durable than wood shakes for a roof. The floors were boards
that had been hand planed so the roughness of the wood left by the
sawmill blade cutting the lumber did not produce splinters to get in the
feet if you walked on the floor barefooted. The floor was built when the
wood was green and as it dried it cracked and the boards separated in
places. When my mother or grandmother would sweep the floor - and they
used a bundled straw broom as there was no other - the dirt was swept
through the cracks in those floors. The yard was swept daily with a
barberry broom to remove wandering-chicken droppings, and keep grass
from growing. There was no way to cut grass if it was allowed to grow,
and chicken droppings could not easily be removed in a grassy lawn.
There was country logic there. . Any weed that tried to grow was pulled
up. The kitchen had a wood stove for cooking which provided some heat,
but there was only one fireplace for heat for the house, and in winter
when my Mother, or us kids, tried to stay warm, we all cooked on one
side and froze on the other. My Grandmother had the first electric stove
in the whole area where she lived in Alabama. People came to visit from
far and wide and to see that stove when it was first installed. It was
an amazing thing. I can remember when my Uncle bought my Grandmother a
washing machine. It to was an amazing thing, and people came from all
over to see it. Display of the stove and the washing machine were
serious social occasions. I liked the washing machine. I no longer had
to help my mother and grandmother stir and boil the clothes in the big
iron pots in back of the house when the washing was done. Nor beat the
cloths with the paddle board to help clean them. But I did have to haul
water in buckets to the new washing machine. But even so, it was better
than keeping the fire going under the great iron pots in the summertime.
Though circumstances were hard, my Mothers family believed education
was the key to the future, and proper language was part of that, both
spoken and written. She had a clear concept of what attitudes and
outlook could/would do, and she made a point to convey that to her
children. In her mind there were those with aspirations, and those
without, and the latter were "poor white trash" and she let us know it.
We dared not display any behavior that reflected "that group of folk" or
we got disciplined for it.
I have considerable understanding of her reasoning, as I lived in my
younger years in that same old home she grew up in until she married. .
As a kid, I thought it was great. I didn't see the difficulties. It was
a farm, there were cows, and fields, and a hay barn to play and hide in,
woods to hunt and explore in. As I grew up, I got assigned various
chores, like finding the eggs, feeding the chickens, etc, and later at
age 10 or so, I went to the fields to pick cotton by hand. At first I
didn't have to carry my own cotton bag, but at age 12 I had to carry my
own. I am here to tell you, the arrival of the cotton picking machines
on the farming scene saved all races living and working on farms in the
south. I never want to have to pick cotton by hand again in my
lifetime!!! I also was growing up when my family still plowed with a
mule, and I was old enough to get in on that too. It is hard, hot work,
and when you are at the plow stock in the furrow directly behind a mule
in harness and that mule breaks wind, or tends to other business,
believe me, it is place you wish you were not!!
Those experiences in growing up made my Mother's message clear to me. I
knew who I didn't want to be like, and if learning proper language and
expression was going to get me out from behind that mule, then I was
going to learn my lessons well.
Those events were long ago, and times have changed. We have become "PC"
, almost to the point of being stifling, but the need for crisp, clear,
concise communications is more important than ever. Living language is
constantly evolving, yet the need for clarity is ever there. There
should be recognition of some standard, that links us all, lest through
the evolution of language we descend into a "Tower of Babel" situation.
I have always had an interest in language, and have encountered many
interesting "Language Events" in my travels. Having a precise language
in common to us all is extremely important. Around that, others can
evolve, if need be.
While living in Western Alaska I encountered a situation where there
were Native villages scattered over the Yukon and Kuskokwim River
Deltas. Each village had it's own dialect, and the further one got from
a given village, the more difficult it became to understand the dialect
of another village. Self-determination and the Alaska Land Claims
Settlement Act has helped this and today there is a concerted effort to
preserve the native languages there and the various dialects. But
central to it all was a need for a common language that all could
understand, and as it happened that was American English. As I
understand it from my latest communique with "The Great Land" the native
communities have language immersion programs in place, both to preserve
their native language, and to teach proper English, teaching in each
language for a full half-day during school periods. This is a wonderful
thing. Now people from all over the Deltas can through common knowledge
of English, communicate easily with one another.
For the rest of our country, we need to keep a central language for the
same reasons. And the rules for it's use need to be adhered to so the
commonality can be maintained. We have enclaves of language variation
all over. Without the common language...chaos!! In New Mexico in the
town where I lived, there was Spanglish - a cross between Spanish and
English. Not really Spanish....not really English. With Spanglish as a
base language, to try to communicate here in the South makes it doubly
difficult, because the street language here is Anglo/Afro-English. In
California in places its different again. So that central, proper form
of a common language becomes more important than ever.
I worked for a time on a Construction Project managed by a Danish
Company. The Danes apparently are taught to speak "The Kings English",
as opposed to "American English" . The Danish guys were always telling
me that Southerners were easier to understand than folks from the New
York, and the New England States. I asked why one day and they said when
I speak, my pronunciation and enunciation is more near the Kings
English, which they were accustomed to. Again, however, a common
language allowed us to communicate, even though that commonality was a
bit skewed by my speaking American English as opposed to Kings English.
I recognize there are country ways and city ways, and native ways and
immigrant ways of speech, and communication, but the salvation of all
will be to maintain a common language, with rules of structure which we
all acknowledge and appropriately apply.
Best regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
primalmommy wrote:
>John Rodgers wrote:
>
>
>
>>I try, I make an effort to get to get it right, this written and
>>spoken word, and to make the spelling correct. It was hammered into me
>>by a Mother who was a school teacher. I and all of my siblings caught
>>the very devil when we didn't do it correctly. When we would get sloppy
>>we were asked "Are you poor white trash???" and then we were told "You
>>KNOW better so DO it better!!! ,,,,, and I better not hear you say
>>things that way again!!" It was made very clear that we were to aim
>>high, and not settle for the average, sloppy street use of the
>>
>>
>language,
>
>
>>both written and spoken. I have no regrets about that teaching. I'm
>>better for it. I think we all would be. IMHO
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Don't settle ..... aim high!
>>
>>
>
>When I was an English teacher, I required everybody to use standard
>English. It is important to master it, even as a second language,
>because it is the language of job applications, legal documents,
>journalism, and business transactions. Also, it protects people from
>racist, regionalist, elitist, etc. assumptions all too common among
>potential employers and others in positions of power.
>
>I believe in standard English, but IMO there's no such thing as "proper"
>english. My Uncle Bud is a farmer and keeps his teeth in his lunch box;
>if the guys he plays horseshoes with say "ain't got no", he's look
>pretty foolish saying "i haven't any"... right? So "aint got no" is
>proper for that setting.
>
>"sloppy street use" is a blanket that covers all kinds of elaborate,
>colorful, intricate dialects, from "the hood" or the village to "insider
>jargons" for occupations, the fascinating tapestry of profanities,
>shortcuts, inside jokes and leftover bits of speech whose origins are
>lost.
>
>I will speak differently giving a lecture to a group of school teachers
>than I do drinking wine around the campfire with my women friends. To
>me, "proper" speech -- like proper dress- means appropriate to the
>situation.
>
>City folks and country folks have a different dialect -- so do teens and
>grandparents, white and black, East coast and West. The assumption that
>we should all speak like college educated midwestern middle aged white
>people is just snobbery. Accepting, of course, that we all have a
>working knowledge of standard english for formal situations -- instead
>of telling folks they shouldn't use all the verbal colors in their paint
>box, how about we question our assumptions about one way being "right"?
>
>I figure once I am out of school nobody gets to grade me. When it comes
>to language, I want to use all the varieties of language, not just the
>formal ones. If somebody doesn't want to read my posts because they are
>misspelled or written in a stream of blathering typos, well, OK. If they
>don't want to talk to me because my jeans have quilt patches sewed over
>holes in the knees -- their loss. Me, I'll take content over appearance
>any time.
>
>In Italy every little region (esp. before mass media) had its own
>dialect.. and every region considered its dialect "proper" and everybody
>else 'backward".. funny, no?
>
>I have no gripe with you, John.. this is just a pet peeve of mine and
>you gave me an opportunity to get out the soap box.
>
>Yours
>kelly in Ohio
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Hal Giddens on tue 12 oct 04
John Rodgers wrote "She had come from dirt farmers and field hands, and while some of them were good people, she wanted us to become doctors, lawyers, bankers and such. In her mind, you could not be "poor white trash" and be those
people for whom she aspired that we be. It simply was not possible.""
>
I'm sorry John but I have to disagree with your mother but some doctors, lawyers, bankers and other thieves are indeed "White Trash". I know because I've met and known some of them. Just having a college education does not exempt one from being a sorry excuse for a person and neither does not having a college education condemn a person to be White Trash".
Both of my grandfathers were farmers. My grandfather on my mother's side started out as a sharecropper and later in life when he was too old to farm sold it and built a small grocery store and ran it until his health got bad. My other grandfather also sold farm supplies to help raise his 13 children. They were both very successful at what they did and neither had a bought piece of paper saying they were educated.
Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net
John Rodgers on tue 12 oct 04
"Poor white trash" in my Mother's mind was not just a physical state of
being, but included many other things. How one applied oneself, whether
one attended church or spent ones time gambling, drinking, or carousing
with others of the same ilk. Whether one spent ones time and effort
engaging in uplifting activities or activities that led to life in
"divers places" and the associated troubles. , "divers places" not to
be confused with or related to those who go under the sea. There was a
clear view of what was "conducive to good living" versus that which was
not. Again, the focus of her teaching was to aim high, exert oneself to
achieve as good an education as possible, and live a good clean life.
I agree with you. I did not mean to cast dispersions on anyone
particular. There are always exceptions. For example, as a public health
professional earlier in my life, I had a professional connection with
the medical profession, and found there are some real scumbags that hide
there ........absolute "White Trash"! And the same is true of bankers
and lawyers, in my own experience.
From my perspective, in this day and age, "white trash" attitudes are
instilled at an early age, and to use an old saying, "As the twig is
bent, so grows the tree!" If the child is not infused with good things,
the resulting adult will not rise above himself.
There are many gems of wisdom that can be applied in raising children to
become responsible, good, kind, intelligent adults. At my age, it is my
hope that it gets done, and done right, for they are our future, and the
future of the world.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Hal Giddens wrote:
>John Rodgers wrote "She had come from dirt farmers and field hands, and while some of them were good people, she wanted us to become doctors, lawyers, bankers and such. In her mind, you could not be "poor white trash" and be those
>people for whom she aspired that we be. It simply was not possible.""
>
>
>I'm sorry John but I have to disagree with your mother but some doctors, lawyers, bankers and other thieves are indeed "White Trash". I know because I've met and known some of them. Just having a college education does not exempt one from being a sorry excuse for a person and neither does not having a college education condemn a person to be White Trash".
>
>Both of my grandfathers were farmers. My grandfather on my mother's side started out as a sharecropper and later in life when he was too old to farm sold it and built a small grocery store and ran it until his health got bad. My other grandfather also sold farm supplies to help raise his 13 children. They were both very successful at what they did and neither had a bought piece of paper saying they were educated.
>
>
>Hal Giddens
>Home Grown Pottery
>Rockledge, Georgia USA
>kenhal@bellsouth.net
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Kate Johnson on tue 12 oct 04
Hal wrote:
Just having a college education does not exempt one from being a sorry
excuse for a person and neither does not having a college education condemn
a person to be White Trash".
Amen to that!
>
> Both of my grandfathers were farmers. My grandfather on my mother's side
> started out as a sharecropper and later in life when he was too old to
> farm sold it and built a small grocery store and ran it until his health
> got bad. My other grandfather also sold farm supplies to help raise his 13
> children. They were both very successful at what they did and neither had
> a bought piece of paper saying they were educated.
The most intelligent, open-minded, and elegant person I ever met was an old
farmer who lived near us, in the 70s. He never wore anything but bib
overalls, and in fact requested that he be buried in a new, clean pair he
had set aside for that event. He lived in a tiny farmhouse down a dead end
dirt road, and raised sheep and pigs. He drove an ancient pickup. No
higher education, but his idea of a wonderful time was to drive to the city
and go to the opera, the ballet, the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art or some
other wonderful cultural opportunity. He loved the arts. Where others in
our rural area were bigoted and narrow-minded, he was invariably a champion
of all men, all races. Reading was his passion, with an astounding range of
interests. He was invariably kind, fair, and reasonable.
What a gentleman. Give me more "poor white trash" like Mr. Unger, please...
(He loved pottery, too.)
Best--
Kate
Anne Webb on tue 12 oct 04
poor white trash.. always makes me think of that guy in "to kill a
mockingbird". he personified poor white trash.. you know, the guy who beat
up his daughter etc.
white trash is a self-perpetuating mindset as is being a redneck.
ignorance.. and as Kate says, a sorry excuse for a human being.
and gawd knows even rednecks have been known to drive mercedes!
anne
the canadian in southern alabama
>From: Kate Johnson
>Hal wrote:
>Just having a college education does not exempt one from being a sorry
>excuse for a person and neither does not having a college education condemn
>a person to be White Trash".
>
>Amen to that!
>>
>>Both of my grandfathers were farmers. My grandfather on my mother's side
>>started out as a sharecropper and later in life when he was too old to
>>farm sold it and built a small grocery store and ran it until his health
>>got bad. My other grandfather also sold farm supplies to help raise his 13
>>children. They were both very successful at what they did and neither had
>>a bought piece of paper saying they were educated.
>
>The most intelligent, open-minded, and elegant person I ever met was an old
>farmer who lived near us, in the 70s. He never wore anything but bib
>overalls, and in fact requested that he be buried in a new, clean pair he
>had set aside for that event. He lived in a tiny farmhouse down a dead end
>dirt road, and raised sheep and pigs. He drove an ancient pickup. No
>higher education, but his idea of a wonderful time was to drive to the city
>and go to the opera, the ballet, the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art or some
>other wonderful cultural opportunity. He loved the arts. Where others in
>our rural area were bigoted and narrow-minded, he was invariably a champion
>of all men, all races. Reading was his passion, with an astounding range of
>interests. He was invariably kind, fair, and reasonable.
>
>What a gentleman. Give me more "poor white trash" like Mr. Unger,
>please...
>
>(He loved pottery, too.)
>
>Best--
>Kate
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 12 oct 04
Hi Anne,
Oh...funny stuff...
Some years ago, when heatedly being subjected to the
inheritred values of an acquaintance's parents, I refered to
them as being 'poor white collar trash'...which paved the
way for 'poor blue collar trash' and so on of course as
well...
Handy terms...and amuseing ones too...
Best wishes,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Webb"
> poor white trash.. always makes me think of that guy in
"to kill a
> mockingbird". he personified poor white trash.. you know,
the guy who beat
> up his daughter etc.
>
> white trash is a self-perpetuating mindset as is being a
redneck.
> ignorance.. and as Kate says, a sorry excuse for a human
being.
> and gawd knows even rednecks have been known to drive
mercedes!
>
> anne
> the canadian in southern alabama
>
>
> >From: Kate Johnson
> >Hal wrote:
> >Just having a college education does not exempt one from
being a sorry
> >excuse for a person and neither does not having a college
education condemn
> >a person to be White Trash".
> >
> >Amen to that!
> >>
> >>Both of my grandfathers were farmers. My grandfather on
my mother's side
> >>started out as a sharecropper and later in life when he
was too old to
> >>farm sold it and built a small grocery store and ran it
until his health
> >>got bad. My other grandfather also sold farm supplies to
help raise his 13
> >>children. They were both very successful at what they
did and neither had
> >>a bought piece of paper saying they were educated.
> >
> >The most intelligent, open-minded, and elegant person I
ever met was an old
> >farmer who lived near us, in the 70s. He never wore
anything but bib
> >overalls, and in fact requested that he be buried in a
new, clean pair he
> >had set aside for that event. He lived in a tiny
farmhouse down a dead end
> >dirt road, and raised sheep and pigs. He drove an
ancient pickup. No
> >higher education, but his idea of a wonderful time was to
drive to the city
> >and go to the opera, the ballet, the Nelson-Atkins Museum
of Art or some
> >other wonderful cultural opportunity. He loved the arts.
Where others in
> >our rural area were bigoted and narrow-minded, he was
invariably a champion
> >of all men, all races. Reading was his passion, with an
astounding range of
> >interests. He was invariably kind, fair, and reasonable.
> >
> >What a gentleman. Give me more "poor white trash" like
Mr. Unger,
> >please...
> >
> >(He loved pottery, too.)
> >
> >Best--
> >Kate
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________
___________________
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
_____
> Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus
voter tools and
> more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Hal Giddens on fri 15 oct 04
>
> From: Anne Webb
> Date: 2004/10/12 Tue PM 12:19:50 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Poor white trash
>
> poor white trash.. always makes me think of that guy in "to kill a
> mockingbird". he personified poor white trash.. you know, the guy who beat
> up his daughter etc.
>
> white trash is a self-perpetuating mindset as is being a redneck.
> ignorance.. and as Kate says, a sorry excuse for a human being.
> and gawd knows even rednecks have been known to drive mercedes!
>
> anne
> the canadian in southern alabama
>
Unfortunately too many people believe that what they see from Hollywood is real when Hollywood doesn't have a clue about the reality of the common person. Hollywood is the king when it comes to stereotyping.
Some people probably thought there were real families like those depicted in such shows at "Ozzie" and Harriet", "Father Knows Best" or "The Donna Reed Show".
And there are a lot of people who think that all southerners that lived before the Civil War lived in big white mansions and owned slaves while in reality most were just poor folks trying to make enough to survive.
The south was for along time considered to be the only part of the country that had a lot of racist people when in truth racist were just as bad in other parts of the country. Also rural white southerners probably got along better with blacks than some of the other parts of the country because even though public areas were segregated a lot of whites and blacks lived and worked close together in farming, logging and such. I remember many times I've heard my parents, aunts and uncles talked about working and playing with black families that lived down the same dirt road as them. Of course there were a lot of mean hateful people in the south just as everywhere else but the majority of people in the south were and are good honest hard working people just like those in the rest of the country. It's always the few that make the news and get all the attention.
One more thing I have to add. Why do so many people watch political debates and then watch the poliical experts tell them who won and why? Why watch a speech and then have to be told by those same experts what the speech was about? I no longer watch any news from the national news channels or networks. When I read a paper or magazine I filter out the crap from the facts. Just give me the facts and let me decide for myself.
Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net
Anne Webb on sun 17 oct 04
It was the mindset that i was pertaining to, hal, not particularly
ethnicity. So called White trash and rednecks are everywhere, not just in
the south.
"white trash".. what a horrible term. nobody is *trash*. i like to think
that everybody has some redeeming qualities.
The south of today is a lot different from the south even in the 60s. ..not
even close. All the good ole boys here seem more likely to belong to a
mardi gras crew than to a lynching mob or the kkk. While "to kill
mockingbird" doesnt represent the south in the context of today (it *was*
written in a different time, afterall), it still successfully depicts the
human state of being, human qualities, frailties, shortcomings, integrity,
etc., which is really what the story is about.
oh and btw.. magazines and papers can sensationalize and slant the news just
as bad as any television station.
anyways.. have a great day :)
anne
>From: Hal Giddens
>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:42:40 -0400
>
> >
> > From: Anne Webb
> >
> > poor white trash.. always makes me think of that guy in "to kill a
> > mockingbird". he personified poor white trash.. you know, the guy who
>beat
> > up his daughter etc.
> >
> > white trash is a self-perpetuating mindset as is being a redneck.
> > ignorance.. and as Kate says, a sorry excuse for a human being.
> > and gawd knows even rednecks have been known to drive mercedes!
> >
> > anne
> > the canadian in southern alabama
> >
>Unfortunately too many people believe that what they see from Hollywood is
>real when Hollywood doesn't have a clue about the reality of the common
>person. Hollywood is the king when it comes to stereotyping.
>
>Some people probably thought there were real families like those depicted
>in such shows at "Ozzie" and Harriet", "Father Knows Best" or "The Donna
>Reed Show".
>
>And there are a lot of people who think that all southerners that lived
>before the Civil War lived in big white mansions and owned slaves while in
>reality most were just poor folks trying to make enough to survive.
>
>The south was for along time considered to be the only part of the country
>that had a lot of racist people when in truth racist were just as bad in
>other parts of the country. Also rural white southerners probably got along
>better with blacks than some of the other parts of the country because even
>though public areas were segregated a lot of whites and blacks lived and
>worked close together in farming, logging and such. I remember many times
>I've heard my parents, aunts and uncles talked about working and playing
>with black families that lived down the same dirt road as them. Of course
>there were a lot of mean hateful people in the south just as everywhere
>else but the majority of people in the south were and are good honest hard
>working people just like those in the rest of the country. It's always the
>few that make the news and get all the attention.
>
>One more thing I have to add. Why do so many people watch political debates
>and then watch the poliical experts tell them who won and why? Why watch a
>speech and then have to be told by those same experts what the speech was
>about? I no longer watch any news from the national news channels or
>networks. When I read a paper or magazine I filter out the crap from the
>facts. Just give me the facts and let me decide for myself.
>
>Hal Giddens
>Home Grown Pottery
>Rockledge, Georgia USA
>kenhal@bellsouth.net
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