Carole Fox on wed 13 oct 04
Hello Clayart friends-
Well- after a long bout with pleurisy, I am back in the studio and so my
questions are resuming as well.
I am having trouble venting the kiln again. I had this trouble way back and
after some clayart advice, I widened the out-take hole of my downdraft
venting system and then eventually had to drill another hole, too. It seemed
to have solved the problem for a long while (gasses escaping into the
studio), but now I am noticing a strong smell in the studio again- only
during the beginning of a glaze firing. I went outside and verified that
warm air was coming out of the vent. I confess I do start the glaze load
with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off. But the
smell persisted for hours and then lessened after the kiln was on medium for
a while. I put on my face mask during the time I was in the studio- until
the smell went away. I have a carbon monoxide alarm that didn't register
anything. I keep the peeps plugged during the firing. I have a sectional
kiln- (Land L). I don't have this problem with bisque loads.
I am thinking to get another venting system- the overhead type- to catch
anything that my other vent does not get. Is this a silly idea?- (it
wouldn't be my first!) Can you use both kinds of venting systems together-
Or is there another way to go about this?
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on wed 13 oct 04
Carole:
Make sure your kiln area is getting enough _intake_ air. If your
vent is removing more air than can be replaced, you will often get
smell from the kiln, just as a woodstove that cannot "breathe"
properly will backpuff into a room. Nothing wrong with the draft,
or the stove; it just isn't getting enough air.
Maybe crack a window open and try it again?
Just a thought.
Best of Luck,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Carole
Fox
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:45 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Double Venting
Hello Clayart friends-
Well- after a long bout with pleurisy, I am back in the studio and
so my
questions are resuming as well.
I am having trouble venting the kiln again. I had this trouble way
back and
after some clayart advice, I widened the out-take hole of my
downdraft
venting system and then eventually had to drill another hole, too.
It seemed
to have solved the problem for a long while (gasses escaping into
the
studio), but now I am noticing a strong smell in the studio again-
only
during the beginning of a glaze firing. I went outside and verified
that
warm air was coming out of the vent. I confess I do start the glaze
load
with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off.
But the
smell persisted for hours and then lessened after the kiln was on
medium for
a while. I put on my face mask during the time I was in the studio-
until
the smell went away. I have a carbon monoxide alarm that didn't
register
anything. I keep the peeps plugged during the firing. I have a
sectional
kiln- (Land L). I don't have this problem with bisque loads.
I am thinking to get another venting system- the overhead type- to
catch
anything that my other vent does not get. Is this a silly idea?- (it
wouldn't be my first!) Can you use both kinds of venting systems
together-
Or is there another way to go about this?
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
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william schran on thu 14 oct 04
Carole wrote:>I am having trouble venting the kiln again...... warm
air was coming out of the vent. I confess I do start the glaze load
with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off. <
Carole - What vent system are you using? Why are you starting the
firing with lid propped open and fan off?
If anything is burning out (wax, etc.) in the early stages of the
firing, all these fumes/gases will be in the room before you start
venting the kiln.
If you continue this process then yes, get the vent hood.
If you want to remove fumes as much as practical - and I'm assuming
you're using a downdraft vent system - start the firing with lid
closed, top spy hole plug out, and a window opened to bring fresh air
into the room. This should take care of the problem.
Bill
mudslingers@ATT.NET on thu 14 oct 04
----carol fox wrote-----------
> I am noticing a strong smell in the studio ...
> ...smell persisted for hours and then
> lessened
hi carol,
how old is your vent?
i had a similar experience not too long ago.
i had started to notice the smell from the
kiln was making it upstairs into the house.
the kiln is vented with an envirovent through
an outside basement window and there was never
a smell for the first several years.
i can't say i noticed it only in glaze
firings, though that may be true, just not
observant enough. i only realized there
was a problem with the vent
itself when the fan broke!
bottom line was i needed a new
envirovent. when i took the bad
one out -- it wasn't pretty!
lauren
ps. personal note: since my emails don't
seem to make it to you! just wanted to
mention that i won't be in your
neck of the woods anymore, we recently
moved my mother-in-law from de to nj.
glad to hear your feeling better.
--
Mudslingers Pottery, Lauren Bellero
http://mudslingers.home.att.net
39 Leroy Place, Red Bank, NJ 07701
732.747.4853
claybair on thu 14 oct 04
Carol,
In my L&L info. it is not advised to fire with the
lid propped or any peeps open. When I questioned this
and the lack of holes drilled in the top I was assured
that the kiln is not airtight and adequate air gets pulled in.
Now one thing I forgot to mention is that before I turn on the
kiln I turn on the vent fan with the peeps out. This get the draft
going. Then I plug the peeps and turn on the kiln.
This has worked for me.
Now a question for you and anyone with an L&L and Vent....
how far open do you keep that little air vent on the bottom mounting?
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of william
schran
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 6:11 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Double Venting
Carole wrote:>I am having trouble venting the kiln again...... warm
air was coming out of the vent. I confess I do start the glaze load
with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off. <
Carole - What vent system are you using? Why are you starting the
firing with lid propped open and fan off?
If anything is burning out (wax, etc.) in the early stages of the
firing, all these fumes/gases will be in the room before you start
venting the kiln.
If you continue this process then yes, get the vent hood.
If you want to remove fumes as much as practical - and I'm assuming
you're using a downdraft vent system - start the firing with lid
closed, top spy hole plug out, and a window opened to bring fresh air
into the room. This should take care of the problem.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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Carole Fox on fri 15 oct 04
First off-apologies on the previous post where I left in the entire message
I was responding to- I meant to send that directly to Gayle.
Now- I have a Bailey downdraft venting system. And I was starting it with
the lid propped, fan off because I thought I read on Clayart long ago that
it was bad for the fan to be running if there is moisture in the kiln. I
figured that I would get rid of the moisture from the clay of my cone packs
and any water remaining in the glazes. When I close up the kiln, the smell
is just a very faint"the wax is starting to melt smell". I have never left
the top peep out during firings because the kiln is sectional and does not
seem really tight.
Some are saying- don't get the overhead system because it will interfere
with the downdraft system. Others are saying-yes, get it to be safe. I guess
my question is -has anyone ever tried both kinds of systems together? There
is no window I can open near the kiln, but I do open the one across the
studio once it warms up .
I have to fire another glaze load tomorrow. I will try it with the top peep
out and see (or smell!) what happens. If I don't have success, I will call
Bailey, as Carole (the other Carole Fox!!) suggested.
Thanks to all who responded.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "william schran"
Subject: Re: Double Venting
> I confess I do start the glaze load
> with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off. <
>
> Carole - What vent system are you using? Why are you starting the
> firing with lid propped open and fan off?
Ron Roy on sat 16 oct 04
Hi Carol,
First thing to check is the ducting to make sure it's not leaking - and
then check the fan - smoke is a good way to check these things.
I always check my vent before a firing - the kind I have exits gases at the
bottom back and requires my top spy to be unplugged. So I hold a flame at
the top spy with the vent system on - all other spys and lid closed. If the
flame is JUST drawn in the open spy - just a bit - I know the vent is
working - but you have to have a window open - so the air being taken out
of the room is replenished with fresh air.
Failure to supply replacement air can lead to other problems - like
reversing the venting on a gas furnace for instance - another excellent
reason for having a CO detector installed and working. This means any way
of exhausting air from a house - will pull air from where ever it can if
there is not a window open - including a central vac system. If the furnace
or fireplace or wood or gas stove is on - the CO can be sucked back into
the house - if there is no replacement air let in.
CO is much more dangerous than people imagine - and much more common than
we think as well.
My son was loading up his car one evening - with the door open - and the
car running - set off the CO detector almost instantly - all depends on the
way the wind is blowing I guess.
There is emerging data about CO - the old limits are being lowered. Long
term exposure to low levels are thought to be a real risk as well.
We potters should be paying careful attention - and if anyone says it does
not matter - it may be due to CO exposure - cause it affects your mind.
RR
>Well- after a long bout with pleurisy, I am back in the studio and so my
>questions are resuming as well.
>
>I am having trouble venting the kiln again. I had this trouble way back and
>after some clayart advice, I widened the out-take hole of my downdraft
>venting system and then eventually had to drill another hole, too. It seemed
>to have solved the problem for a long while (gasses escaping into the
>studio), but now I am noticing a strong smell in the studio again- only
>during the beginning of a glaze firing. I went outside and verified that
>warm air was coming out of the vent. I confess I do start the glaze load
>with the peeps out and the lid propped- one hour on low, fan off. But the
>smell persisted for hours and then lessened after the kiln was on medium for
>a while. I put on my face mask during the time I was in the studio- until
>the smell went away. I have a carbon monoxide alarm that didn't register
>anything. I keep the peeps plugged during the firing. I have a sectional
>kiln- (Land L). I don't have this problem with bisque loads.
>
>I am thinking to get another venting system- the overhead type- to catch
>anything that my other vent does not get. Is this a silly idea?- (it
>wouldn't be my first!) Can you use both kinds of venting systems together-
>Or is there another way to go about this?
>Carole Fox
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Carole Fox on fri 22 oct 04
I have been waiting for my computer to be usable ( after Microsoft decided
to update itself and wreak havoc- and no, they don't respond to inquiries in
24 hours like they claim to!) to let y'all know how my venting situation is
coming along. Last glaze firing was much better. I had the window opened in
the studio and I left the top peep out for just the beginning of the firing.
Once the rings of the kiln expanded from the heat, the gap between the rings
provided enough draw.
There was still a slight problem of fumes very early on and it could be
because I only had the window opened an inch or so initially -hey, it's cold
with the window open! Next firing, I will try Gayle's method of turning on
the fan early and/or putting on my long undies and opening the window wider.
I will also try to get in the habit of checking the draw, as Ron does,
before each firing.
I hope to glaze fire again this weekend. For now, I'm bisque firing- which
never smells and makes my studio toasty warm. Thank you all for your
suggestions.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
william schran on fri 22 oct 04
Carole wrote:>Last glaze firing was much better. I had the window opened in
the studio and I left the top peep out for just the beginning of the firing.<
Why not leave the top spy hole plug out for the entire firing?
Willing to bet the results will be better for the glazes and a more
even firing top to bottom. Put cone packs in top, middle & bottom to
test.
Bill
Carole Fox on fri 22 oct 04
Hi Bill.
As Gayle said- L and L does not recommend it. Also, won't it lead to a cold
spot in that area of the kiln? I always have cone packs at each spyhole.
Usually, the bottom is slowest to hit cone 6, though I try my best to
compensate by turning up each section at a different rate (I have a manual
kiln). How would leaving the top hole open even out the firing? I sure would
love a more even firing.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "william schran"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Double Venting
> Carole wrote:>Last glaze firing was much better. I had the window opened
> in
> the studio and I left the top peep out for just the beginning of the
> firing.<
>
> Why not leave the top spy hole plug out for the entire firing?
> Willing to bet the results will be better for the glazes and a more
> even firing top to bottom. Put cone packs in top, middle & bottom to
> test.
>
> Bill
william schran on fri 22 oct 04
Carole wrote:>As Gayle said- L and L does not recommend it. Also,
won't it lead to a cold
spot in that area of the kiln? I always have cone packs at each spyhole.
Usually, the bottom is slowest to hit cone 6....<
The Bailey system is designed to work with top spy hole open while
the vent is running.
I do VERY fast firings getting up to temperature, 3/4 hours to cone
6! I fire in a L&L J18X. Have cone pack right in front of top spy
hole and a pack down on the bottom shelf. The bottom is ever so
slightly hotter than the top - cone 6 tip touching ( 6 o'clock) on
bottom pack, cone 6 tip at 5 o'clock for top pack.
Give it a try.
Bill
claybair on fri 22 oct 04
Bill,
I think that leaving the peep open
the entire firing will cause cold spots.....
remember this system draws the air in and down.
I have had several people say to me that
they noticed the pots under the drilled venting holes
in the kiln lid have had an adverse effect.
Gayle Bair - on a roll... several excellent firings....
delivered 3/4s of a 12 place setting
dish set today.... and customers/friends loved it.
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: william schran
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 7:09 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Double Venting
Carole wrote:>Last glaze firing was much better. I had the window opened in
the studio and I left the top peep out for just the beginning of the
firing.<
Why not leave the top spy hole plug out for the entire firing?
Willing to bet the results will be better for the glazes and a more
even firing top to bottom. Put cone packs in top, middle & bottom to
test.
Bill
william schran on sat 23 oct 04
Gayle wrote:>I have had several people say to me that
they noticed the pots under the drilled venting holes
in the kiln lid have had an adverse effect.<
My posting to Carole about leaving the top spy hole open while
running a downdraft vent applies only to the Bailey system, that I
thought she is using. With this system, a 1/4" hole is drilled in the
lower wall of the kiln for the exhaust and the air intake is the top
spy hole - that is how this system works.
If one is using another manufacturers system that involves drilling
holes in the lid, then yes, one would leave the top spy hole plug in
place.
I use the Bailey system and I'm very happy with how it functions. I
also have thin layers of ceramic fiber between the sections of my
kiln that help to seal it up fairly well. I forgot to remove the top
spy hole plug during the first hour of my last firing, but it seemed
that enough air was being drawn in from the slight gap between the
lid and top section. I did remove the spy hole plug anyway.
Bill
Ron Roy on sun 24 oct 04
Hi Carol,
The window needs to be open more than just a crack - if you have a carbon
monoxide detector runing you might find exactly how open it should be - but
be aware - the wind direction and velosity can be a big factor - the best
situation is when the wind in blowing fresh air in the window - if it's not
you may find you need the window open more.
RR
>There was still a slight problem of fumes very early on and it could be
>because I only had the window opened an inch or so initially -hey, it's cold
>with the window open! Next firing, I will try Gayle's method of turning on
>the fan early and/or putting on my long undies and opening the window wider.
>I will also try to get in the habit of checking the draw, as Ron does,
>before each firing.
>
>I hope to glaze fire again this weekend. For now, I'm bisque firing- which
>never smells and makes my studio toasty warm. Thank you all for your
>suggestions.
>Carole Fox
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
claybair on tue 26 oct 04
Hi-Ho Silver Fox,
My suggestion is to stop using the wax and start
using Latex. I have been using it to protect the center of my plates
when I sgraffito through a dark slip on the rims.
I don't see why you can't use it on foot rings or resist decoration.
It dries fast much faster than the wax resists I have used. I always
have to wait a day for that to dry fully and then have to contend with
the little drops that say on the wax.
I have the latex down to a system... even how to keep the cheap foam brush
soft indefinitely. I'll share my tips with you if you are interested.
Best of all you will not get any fumes because you peel it off before
you fire.
The water based latex has little to no smell. I'm very happy with it.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Carole Fox
Well- opening the window wider and leaving the top peephole open (yes, it is
a Bailey downdraft vent that relies on a hole near the top of the kiln to
work) did not solve my problem. The fumes seem to occur during the wax
burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio.
I started the fan early, even though I was afraid this practice would
corrode the system faster. I am not picking up anything on my carbon dioxide
monitor. I am rushing to get ready for the busiest time of year and firing a
lot. If anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
Carole Fox on tue 26 oct 04
Well- opening the window wider and leaving the top peephole open (yes, it is
a Bailey downdraft vent that relies on a hole near the top of the kiln to
work) did not solve my problem. The fumes seem to occur during the wax
burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio.
I started the fan early, even though I was afraid this practice would
corrode the system faster. I am not picking up anything on my carbon dioxide
monitor. I am rushing to get ready for the busiest time of year and firing a
lot. If anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
william schran on tue 26 oct 04
Carole wrote:>The fumes seem to occur during the wax
burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio.
If anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know.<
You might try putting a thin layer of fiber blanket between the
sections of the kiln, and perhaps between the lid and top section to
seal the kiln up better so the draft from the vent would be stronger.
Bill
Dorie Mickelson on wed 27 oct 04
Carole, not sure if this will help you or not but it works for me. I
have a small Skutt kiln with the envirovent attached underneath the kiln
and vented out the window. Also have a good sized room exhaust fan
mounted on the ceiling above the kiln which vents the air from the kiln
room out the same window. I run both of these vents throughout the
entire firing cycle to help eliminate the wax fumes, although I have
found that the worst paraffin burnoff smell occurs between about 400
degrees and 900 degrees. Since I can smell the paraffin outside where
it is being vented, I also keep all windows closed on that side of the
house during firing, and as a final measure, I turn off my furnace and
the fan on my furnace (which otherwise runs even if the heat is not
running) during the kiln firing cycle to prevent the remaining fumes in
the kiln room from circulating throughout the house. Of course, my kiln
is also in a separate room that I can close off from my other work areas
-- as even with the kiln vent and kiln room vent, no way would I spend
an extended period of time in the kiln room during the firing.
Hope that helps -- I know how horrible the paraffin burn-off fumes were
for me before I took those steps and empathize with your problem. Good
luck!
Dorie in Ann Arbor Michigan, where I just unloaded a glaze kiln load and
all the new glaze batches I just mixed up came out perfectly -- hurray!
www.FreeSpiritCreations.com
Snip
thesilverfox@DOL.NET; Subject: Re: Double Venting. Well- opening the
window wider and leaving the top peephole open (yes, it is a Bailey
downdraft vent that relies on a hole near the top of the kiln to work)
did not solve my problem. The fumes seem to occur during the wax
burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio. I started the fan
early, even though I was afraid this practice would corrode the system
faster. I am not picking up anything on my carbon dioxide monitor. I am
rushing to get ready for the busiest time of year and firing a lot. If
anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know. Carole Fox>
Ron Roy on wed 27 oct 04
Hi Carol,
Maybe just a lot of wax?
You sure there is not a hole on your vent pipe up to the fan? Check the
connects on the vent top and bottom - if you have a double vent attached to
the fan housing - make sure it sealed.
There must be a way to find leaks in the 4" flexible tube from the kiln to
the fan house - anybody got an idea?
RR
>Well- opening the window wider and leaving the top peephole open (yes, it is
>a Bailey downdraft vent that relies on a hole near the top of the kiln to
>work) did not solve my problem. The fumes seem to occur during the wax
>burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
>outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio.
>
>I started the fan early, even though I was afraid this practice would
>corrode the system faster. I am not picking up anything on my carbon dioxide
>monitor. I am rushing to get ready for the busiest time of year and firing a
>lot. If anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know.
>
>Carole Fox
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
william schran on thu 28 oct 04
Carole - A thought came to me regarding your venting/fumes issue - do
you have duct running to the vent motor, then duct running from motor
to outside? This could also cause fume issues. If the ducts aren't
sealed well, you could be sucking them out of the kiln, then blowing
some back in the room.
I have duct from kiln to motor assembly. The motor is mounted on a
board that fits into a window opening. Each time I fire, I fit the
board/motor assembly in the open window. All is vented directly
outside. Very little smell in the studio.
Bill
claybair on thu 28 oct 04
I used a mirror to see the underside of the flexible venting.
However just running my hand under it I could feel areas
that are thinning out or completely corroded.
I recently switched to the solid venting...... it was a challenge
to get it together but I have noticed a marked decrease of
fumes in the studio.
Plus this stuff should last longer than the flimsy flexible venting.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Roy
Hi Carol,
Maybe just a lot of wax?
You sure there is not a hole on your vent pipe up to the fan? Check the
connects on the vent top and bottom - if you have a double vent attached to
the fan housing - make sure it sealed.
There must be a way to find leaks in the 4" flexible tube from the kiln to
the fan house - anybody got an idea?
RR
>Well- opening the window wider and leaving the top peephole open (yes, it
is
>a Bailey downdraft vent that relies on a hole near the top of the kiln to
>work) did not solve my problem. The fumes seem to occur during the wax
>burn-off stage. The vent is working somewhat because I can smell the wax
>outside (more strongly) as well as in my studio.
>
>I started the fan early, even though I was afraid this practice would
>corrode the system faster. I am not picking up anything on my carbon
dioxide
>monitor. I am rushing to get ready for the busiest time of year and firing
a
>lot. If anyone has another suggestion to try, please let me know.
>
>Carole Fox
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Carole Fox on thu 28 oct 04
Hey Gayle-
Using latex might just get rid of my problem- (now that I finally got the
waxing down to a science and collected enough candle butts to last a good
long time!). I have a call in to Bailey (as you suggested) - the woman who
initially returned my call was unable to help and said she would talk to Mr.
Bailey and get back to me again. I will wait and see what he has to say.
If you have the time, I WOULD like to hear about your tips with latex. I
have a jar and might end up going that route if nothing else pans out.
You and Bill have been awfully helpful. I really do appreciate it!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Double Venting
> Hi-Ho Silver Fox,
> My suggestion is to stop using the wax and start
> using Latex. I have been using it to protect the center of my plates
> when I sgraffito through a dark slip on the rims.
> I don't see why you can't use it on foot rings or resist decoration.
> It dries fast much faster than the wax resists I have used. I always
> have to wait a day for that to dry fully and then have to contend with
> the little drops that say on the wax.
> I have the latex down to a system... even how to keep the cheap foam brush
> soft indefinitely. I'll share my tips with you if you are interested.
>
> Best of all you will not get any fumes because you peel it off before
> you fire.
> The water based latex has little to no smell. I'm very happy with it.
>
> Gayle Bair
Carole Fox on thu 28 oct 04
Latest news on my venting situation:
Bailey (Jim Bailey, himself, that is) is suggesting that I try attaching the
vent hose directly to the kiln instead of leaving the slight gap that is
recommended in the instructions. Instead of unattaching the hose,
reattaching the hose and then possibly having to un- and reattach again if
it does not solve the problem, I am planning on trying to seal the gap with
the metal tape mentioned on Clayart. Please stop me if this is a bad idea.
They also said that since I have purchased my system ('98), they have
upgraded the fan on their new systems. I may have to trade up if this taping
idea does not work.
I bet you all are looking forward to me finding a solution so I can stop
venting about my venting system!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
william schran on fri 29 oct 04
Carole wrote: > Instead of unattaching the hose,
reattaching the hose and then possibly having to un- and reattach again if
it does not solve the problem, I am planning on trying to seal the gap with
the metal tape mentioned on Clayart. Please stop me if this is a bad idea.<
You could certainly give it a try, but I would suspect the glue on
the metal tape might not adhere properly to the kiln wall when it
gets hot - then you might have other fumes from the adhesive.
I'd seal up all other areas where there are connections prior to
doing anything else.
Bill
william schran on fri 29 oct 04
Carole - No problem with all the questions, just want to try and help
you get to the bottom of the fume/smell issue.
When I wrote about sealing other areas, I was directing you towards
sealing any attachment areas, like where the duct attaches to the
motor.
Your last statement stood out - "...fear I might tear it". Are you
using plastic dryer duct hose?
Please, please take that off right now! It's not even safe to use
that stuff with dryers!
You should only use all metal flexible duct or solid metal, if it's
more of a permanent installation.
The flexible metal ducting is available at homedepot/lowes kind of
stores. Use the metal tape to seal all attachment/joints.
Bill
>Bill-
>I am so sorry to keep bothering about this. But, I don't understand what you
>mean by sealing up other areas. Are you referring to ceramic fiber between
>the rings of the kiln?
>I was trying to think of a temporary solution for sealing the area between
>the kiln and vent hose because I was thinking that it might not work and
>then I would have to unseal it. Do you think fiber with metal tape over it
>would work? I was hoping not to mess with the hose too much for fear I might
>tear it.
>
>Thank you for being so patient with me.
>Carole Fox
>Silver Fox Pottery
>Elkton, MD
>thesilverfox@dol.net
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>>You could certainly give it a try, but I would suspect the glue on
>>the metal tape might not adhere properly to the kiln wall when it
>>gets hot - then you might have other fumes from the adhesive.
>>
>>I'd seal up all other areas where there are connections prior to
>>doing anything else.
>>
>>Bill
>
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>
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Carole Fox on fri 29 oct 04
Bill-
I am so sorry to keep bothering about this. But, I don't understand what you
mean by sealing up other areas. Are you referring to ceramic fiber between
the rings of the kiln?
I was trying to think of a temporary solution for sealing the area between
the kiln and vent hose because I was thinking that it might not work and
then I would have to unseal it. Do you think fiber with metal tape over it
would work? I was hoping not to mess with the hose too much for fear I might
tear it.
Thank you for being so patient with me.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
> You could certainly give it a try, but I would suspect the glue on
> the metal tape might not adhere properly to the kiln wall when it
> gets hot - then you might have other fumes from the adhesive.
>
> I'd seal up all other areas where there are connections prior to
> doing anything else.
>
> Bill
Louis Katz on fri 29 oct 04
I used some metal tape on the outside of a kiln for an experiment with
water vapor. The tape stayed on for about a year before falling off,
but it stopped sealing well after a few firings. The kiln is a Skutt
KM- 1227 (3 inch walls) and mostly use them for bisque but held them
hot long enough to get cone 9 down twice for the water vapor tests.
Wanted to know if water vapor not in the presence of fuel had any
impact on the glazes. None was apparent. I would have liked to get a
better sealed kiln with more power so I could drip more water in.
Louis
On Oct 29, 2004, at 7:34 AM, william schran wrote:
> Carole wrote: > Instead of unattaching the hose,
> reattaching the hose and then possibly having to un- and reattach
> again if
> it does not solve the problem, I am planning on trying to seal the gap
> with
> the metal tape mentioned on Clayart. Please stop me if this is a bad
> idea.<
>
> You could certainly give it a try, but I would suspect the glue on
> the metal tape might not adhere properly to the kiln wall when it
> gets hot - then you might have other fumes from the adhesive.
>
> I'd seal up all other areas where there are connections prior to
> doing anything else.
>
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
http://falcon.tamucc.edu/~lkatz/
Louis Katz on sat 30 oct 04
Some of the direct vent systems have an air gap designed into them so
that the gases removed from the kiln are highly diluted as they
entersthe vent pipe. I would expect that it is a bad idea to plug up
that air gap.
I work in a very humid climate and we dry our pots in our kilns. Takes
about 12 hours at 180 degrees F to ensure dryness for my students work.
I am willing to fire up to 1" thick work but dry it longer and fire it
slower.
Anyhow our ducting lasts about 3 1/2 years before it is corroded
through. We use the best quality galvanized vent pipe we can buy
locally. We ordered some recently for a dust collection system in the
wood shop. It has much heavier walls than the Home Despot type stores
sell.
First time I fired my ware with rice wedged in the fumes ate right
thorugh those flexible aluminum vent pipes.
Even with a Bailey, Orton, or Skutt vent if you put much organic mater
in the kiln it will produce smoke faster than the vent will remove it
and you will get some smells.
Louis
http://falcon.tamucc.edu/~lkatz/LK/riceware/index.htm
On Oct 29, 2004, at 8:57 PM, william schran wrote:
> WhenKE5CVK
Ron Roy on sun 31 oct 04
Hi Carole,
I'm not so sure eliminating the gap completely is such a good idea -
perhaps making the gap smaller - a little at a time would be more prudent.
I have a strip of this metal is use to increase the pul from my vent - if
it's needed. It is shaped to fit around the gap - but only half way - you
can increase the pull by blocking the gap by different amounts.
The reason I don't like the idea of blocking it completely - hot gases into
the ducting are going to wear it down faster - and maybe the fan and motor
as well - just makes me uneasy.
The metal tape may not stick very well when it gets hot by the way.
RR
>Latest news on my venting situation:
>Bailey (Jim Bailey, himself, that is) is suggesting that I try attaching the
>vent hose directly to the kiln instead of leaving the slight gap that is
>recommended in the instructions. Instead of unattaching the hose,
>reattaching the hose and then possibly having to un- and reattach again if
>it does not solve the problem, I am planning on trying to seal the gap with
>the metal tape mentioned on Clayart. Please stop me if this is a bad idea.
>
>They also said that since I have purchased my system ('98), they have
>upgraded the fan on their new systems. I may have to trade up if this taping
>idea does not work.
>
>I bet you all are looking forward to me finding a solution so I can stop
>venting about my venting system!
>Carole Fox
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Carole Fox on sun 31 oct 04
I appreciate the further postings on my venting problems. Right now I am
concentrating on raku pots for upcoming shows, though I do have a few more
loads of cone 6 ware to fire before my home show. As soon as I am able, I
will try what Ron suggests- sealing off a small area of the gap between the
vent hose and the kiln with some kind of metal that I hope to scrounge up
somehow.
By the way, Bill, the hose to my vent is metallic. It is what came with the
system and so I assume it is the appropriate thing to use. I was afraid of
tearing it because, honestly, I am so clueless about kilns and vents in
general. I learned to pot in art centers where the emphasis was on making
pots and not processing them. I have learned a lot from reading and Clayart
( I've been a Clayarter for about 12 years!!), but I still have a long ways
to go. Clayart has saved my butt more than once and I am grateful for the
generosity I've been shown.
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
Carole Fox on mon 1 nov 04
Oh my gosh-
I couldn't wait to mess around with the venting system and as I grabbed hold
of the vent hose, I put my finger right through it! Going from bad to worse
here and a major show for me in less than two weeks. I wound the metal tape
that I had already purchased around the hose so that I can hopefully get
through a few bisque loads of raku ware and then I'll try to hook up some
regular metal vent pipe if I can figure out how to do that with a
non-flexible material.
Sheesh! Doesn't it always go this way when you are rushing to get ready for
a show!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
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