Louis Katz on thu 14 oct 04
I have heard over the last many years that ITC is the best thing since =20=
sliced bread. The claims seem so exagerated that I am tempted to =20
discount them entirely. They remind me of the claims of water injection =20=
into carburetors . At NCECA several years ago I talked with Jim Skutt. =20=
He says one of his customers has a room full of his kilns. They sprayed =20=
half of them according to directions from ITC and noticed no change in =20=
firing time or costs.
On clayart I have heard claims of 30% savings. I have seen these claims =20=
quoted by suppliers. They quote the claim, "Some users of ITC 100 =20
coatings report as much as a 40% fuel =20
savings"(http://www.pottery-books.com/axner/equipment/kilnsuper.php).
If there were a significant reduction in the cost of firing with an ITC =20=
coated kilns we would see numeric claims from manufacturers, such as
By the new Acme Kiln, uses 40% less electricity than the competitors. =20=
Axner, apparently the main distributor for ITC in the pottery industry, =20=
is the only manufacturer I know of making such claims and the claim he =20=
makes is to quote one user rather than cite hard data. If other =20
manufacturers besides Axner and Paragon (below) are routinely coating =20=
their kilns I don't yet know about it.
I have no doubt the coatings have uses, but the hype and spin on this =20=
stuff is incredible. People who use ITC and fail to get any results are =20=
told routinely, they have applied them wrong. People who spend $190 per =20=
gallon have a lot of face tied up in the products. The only test I know =20=
of of a large number of kilns in a controlled circumstance is the one =20=
mentioned above by Skutt.
Let me be clear. I have not used ITC. But, I have also not tried Doan's =20=
pills.
Arnold Howard writes,
http://www.ceramicindustry.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/=20
BNP__Features__Item/0,2710,22141,00.html
=93We have power-packed the Dragon and Dragon XL lines with features =
that =20
give the professional potter more benefits per dollar than any other =20
kiln available today,=94 says Rothman. =93Even options such the popular =
ITC =20
coating and S-Type thermocouple are now available.=94 Many potters =20
believe that the ITC coating, used on the insulating firebricks, =20
reduces the electrical consumption of the kiln. The S-type thermocouple =20=
lasts longer at ceramic temperatures than the more common K-type =20
thermocouple."
He does not say that it does save electricity. He says " many potters =20=
believe".
Skeptically
Louis
Craig Clark on thu 14 oct 04
Louis, first let me say that I believe true sceptics are a saving grace.
On this particular issue, though, I can attest that there was less
energy consumed in firing to cone 6 in an electric kiln that I coated
with ITC 100. I'm not lying about this and I have no face to save on
this issue. The ITC that I used didn't take a gallon anyway. I went in
halvsies with a former student who was rebuilding an old electric. We
were able to coat both kilns with some to spare. Also treated the new
elements with ITC 213. I'm about to do the same thing to a ten year old
Skutt 1027.
For a more definitive explanation that is atleast reportedly far more of
a clinical type of study I suggest that you read Nils Lou article about
his tests of ITc. Here's the link
http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/education/110.html
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on thu 14 oct 04
Louis:
I can understand your skepticism. I have used ITC, and found that
it does improve the performance of my kiln enough to recommend it to
others. Whether or not it saves electricity is of no consequence to
me...a firing costs what it costs and that's that. I'm not in
production, so it matters little (again, to me.) It did help even
out heating throughout the kiln, I suspect through reflection of
heat. It also put a coating on the brick that keeps the kiln
cleaner. For myself, working in porcelain, that would be enough of
a reason to use it. It does not cure cancer, solve glaze defects,
eliminate world hunger etc. But I don't need it to do any of those
things. I'm happy with it for what it _does_ do.
I have also tried (and use) Doan's pills. They work too. Don't ask
me why or how...I don't care. But my back does indeed feel better
an hour or so after taking them. It feels just as good after a
visit to my friend the Muscle Activation therapist. The pills are
much much cheaper, but not nearly as good looking .
Skepticism is not a bad thing. In some cases, it is a good thing
indeed, and a healthy skepticism can even keep us alive in certain
circumstances. But it should not prevent us from trying new things
because of exaggerated claims. Try for yourself, make up your own
mind.
Neither ITC or Doan's pills are a cure all. But they do work.
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
Let me be clear. I have not used ITC. But, I have also not tried
Doan's pills.
Richard Aerni on thu 14 oct 04
Louis,
I'll finally come out of the closet on this one...
I spent four hundred dollars on ITC on my last gas kiln. I sprayed the
interior according to directions, and I'm pretty handy and very familiar
with spraying techniques. It was a 90 cubic foot kiln, and I'd fired it
about 400 times before the ITC coating. I noticed not one single bit of
gas savings over the next 200 plus firings I did with the kiln, before it
was dismantled.
Since I'm using some of the bricks from the old kiln in my new one, I will
say that the hot face of them is still in good shape. But, I wouldn't
spray any of my gas kilns with it, and I wouldn't consider building a fibre
kiln (which is the optimum use for it, according to Mel).
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
John Rodgers on thu 14 oct 04
Louis, I like your commentary on the hype that ITC is getting. I haven't=20
used it, but I am planning on giving it a try, mainly because I intend=20
to refurbish a kiln and make it into a combo- Gas/electric unit for=20
reduction firing, not for fuel savings particularly.
However, I think that someone in the kiln business should do some=20
testing. Run a before and after test. It can easily be done by firing a=20
kiln, and collecting data, then processing the kiln for ITC and firing=20
the ITC kiln and collecting the data, then comparing the two. I for one=20
have actually put a meter on my kilns to measure the actual energy=20
consumption during a firing. The local electric utility came out at my=20
request, hooked a meter to my kiln, and let it run for a full firing=20
cycle ----- from cold to cold. And the meter gave a hard copy print out=20
of the data. . It's no mystery. ITC either makes the kiln more efficient=20
or it doesn't, and the truth of it is in the numbers. If the other=20
qualities of ITC other than the supposed energy efficiency are what you=20
want, then you are probably home free, because I am convinced ITC does a=20
lot more than just save fuel. One big factor is it protects, and that=20
is a major feature.
So bravo, Louis, for your skepticism, but would somebody PLEEZ do some=20
testing and lay Louis' skepticism low, and show him wrong. If he is to=20
be accused of being wrong --- then prove it with the numbers. Howard???=20
Eh, Howard??!! or somebody??
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Louis Katz wrote:
> I have heard over the last many years that ITC is the best thing=20
> since sliced bread. The claims seem so exagerated that I am tempted=20
> to discount them entirely. They remind me of the claims of water=20
> injection into carburetors . At NCECA several years ago I talked with=20
> Jim Skutt. He says one of his customers has a room full of his kilns.=20
> They sprayed half of them according to directions from ITC and=20
> noticed no change in firing time or costs.
>
> On clayart I have heard claims of 30% savings. I have seen these=20
> claims quoted by suppliers. They quote the claim, "Some users of ITC=20
> 100 coatings report as much as a 40% fuel =20
> savings"(http://www.pottery-books.com/axner/equipment/kilnsuper.php).
>
> If there were a significant reduction in the cost of firing with an=20
> ITC coated kilns we would see numeric claims from manufacturers, such =
as
> By the new Acme Kiln, uses 40% less electricity than the competitors. =20
> Axner, apparently the main distributor for ITC in the pottery=20
> industry, is the only manufacturer I know of making such claims and=20
> the claim he makes is to quote one user rather than cite hard data.=20
> If other manufacturers besides Axner and Paragon (below) are=20
> routinely coating their kilns I don't yet know about it.
>
> I have no doubt the coatings have uses, but the hype and spin on this =20
> stuff is incredible. People who use ITC and fail to get any results=20
> are told routinely, they have applied them wrong. People who spend=20
> $190 per gallon have a lot of face tied up in the products. The only=20
> test I know of of a large number of kilns in a controlled=20
> circumstance is the one mentioned above by Skutt.
>
> Let me be clear. I have not used ITC. But, I have also not tried=20
> Doan's pills.
>
> Arnold Howard writes,
> http://www.ceramicindustry.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/=20
> BNP__Features__Item/0,2710,22141,00.html
>
> =93We have power-packed the Dragon and Dragon XL lines with features=20
> that give the professional potter more benefits per dollar than any=20
> other kiln available today,=94 says Rothman. =93Even options such the=20
> popular ITC coating and S-Type thermocouple are now available.=94 Many=
=20
> potters believe that the ITC coating, used on the insulating=20
> firebricks, reduces the electrical consumption of the kiln. The=20
> S-type thermocouple lasts longer at ceramic temperatures than the=20
> more common K-type thermocouple."
>
> He does not say that it does save electricity. He says " many potters =20
> believe".
>
> Skeptically
> Louis
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
_______=20
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at=20
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
John K Dellow on fri 15 oct 04
Louis Katz wrote:
> I have heard over the last many years that ITC is the best thing
> since sliced bread. The claims seem so exagerated that I am tempted
> to discount them entirely. They remind me of the claims of water
> injection into carburetors . At NCECA several years ago I talked with
> Jim Skutt. He says one of his customers has a room full of his kilns.
> They sprayed half of them according to directions from ITC and
> noticed no change in firing time or costs.
I used ITC on the fiber door of my 80cu.ft tolly kiln and on the arch
bricks 5 years ago , mainly to in crease the life of the kiln. I wonder
if the kilns you speak of show any diffrence in this respect ?.
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
From the land down under
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
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