Claudia Kashpureff on fri 22 oct 04
Had fun reading post on staying away from glass blowers, but it
touched on something I've been thinking about a lot lately -- that is,
the segregation or separation that seems to exist between the various
arts and crafts.
I'm not a potter but I've worked with clay, and I'm looking forward
to working with it even more in the near future, after my kiln arrives.
I'm not a jeweler but I've worked with metal, and I'm looking forward
to working with it even more after my kiln arrives.
I'm not a glass blower but I've been working with stained glass
recently, and I'm looking forward to fusing my own elements to
incorporate into stained glass pieces...
...and I'm looking forward to casting my own brass fixtures and
embellishments to incorporate into stained glass pieces...
... and I'm looking forward to learning more and more about glass,
metal, and clay as time goes on, using what I learn in one craft,
applying that knowledge to another craft, and developing new
techniques through the cross-hybridization of these various crafts.
Pottery glazes are, after all, glasses... Enamels used in jewelry are also
glasses...
The greatest distinction I see between these three fields --
metalworking, glass arts, and pottery -- is that potters form their
work while it's wet, cool, and elastic, while jewelers and glass
artists must use torches and cutting tools to form their materials.
Long ago, guilds for each of the crafts kept their secrets closely
guarded. The end result is that different crafts accomplish the same
result with entirely different -- and not necessarily equal -- tools.
Stained glass workers cut their soft metal came (the "lead" in
between glass pieces) with knives and nippers. Jewelers cut their
metals with thin-bladed saws because knives and nippers won't cut hard
metals as precisely or without waste.
But for difficult, precise, angled cuts in soft metals like lead, you
can't beat the jeweler's saw... which glass artists don't use because
they don't even know it exists! Instead, they struggle along cutting,
trimming, checking and often recutting difficult angled cuts in their
lead, trying to get them just right with crude nippers when a simple
saw would do the trick the first time.
That's just one example of a tool or technique used in one craft that
could be used in other crafts. I've run into dozens of similar cases
that made me wonder, "Why don't they just do it this way?"
The answer is always, "Because they never knew it could be done that
way."
Segregation vs. Hybridization.
Love,
Claudia
Louis Katz on fri 22 oct 04
Enjoyed reading this last post. I don't know why but different ways to
cut the pie has long been constant in my thinking process. It is
porbably the "Eastern Influence " that comes of taking only Asian art
history in undergraduate school. (still not much clay in the courses, a
shame).
Clay seems to be the defining characteristic of people calling
themselves ceramists or some of them may think of them selves
non-verbally as clay workers. I often think of Chris Berti, who for
years carved rock with the sense of breath of a potter, he also still
makes pots I believe. Was this "sculpture" or was it ceramics? If I
paint a painting of a pot, make the pigments myself from ceramic
materials and oil or just do it with a potterly sensibility should I
call it painting or ceramics? I make the case that history,
sensibility and tradition (maybe) training, make my paintings ceramics.
I recognize that this too is just part of the illusion of reality we
create with words but still I think about it and think it is as valid
as the usually sliceing of the conceptual pie.
Maybe a year ago I was thinking of other ways to divide study up in an
art school. I thought of the following workshops replacing the media
workshops now more routinely used.
Representation- Figurative, nonfigurative
Presentation- Functional objects. nonrepresentation abstraction
Design- Basic compositional instruction
Concept- Process,documentation art, conceptual art,
Seems like I had more.
Still it cuts up the pie. I am not making a case that this is better. I
am just thinking about it.
Louis
On Oct 22, 2004, at 3:28 PM, Claudia Kashpureff wrote:
>
> Segregation vs. Hybridization.
>
> Love,
>
> Claudia
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
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>
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>
>
Louis Katz
http://www.tamucc.edu/~lkatz
Kathy Forer on sat 23 oct 04
On Oct 22, 2004, at 9:16 PM, Louis Katz wrote:
> Representation- Figurative, nonfigurative
> Presentation- Functional objects. nonrepresentation abstraction
> Design- Basic compositional instruction
> Concept- Process,documentation art, conceptual art,
>
> Seems like I had more.
> Still it cuts up the pie. I am not making a case that this is better. I
> am just thinking about it.
That's pretty good, probably better than a typical material ghetto.
It's more the way things really work when we step back. And it
generates a structure for exploration of material and method, organism
and artifact, synthesis and analysis, practice and theory, analog and
digital, networks and avatars, or whatever sounds right.
Kathy
Jacob Runyan on sat 23 oct 04
The segregation often amazes me. There are a lot of
part time "hobby" glass blowers blowing glass out of
"hybrid" pottery kilns with beefed up walls and floors
and cast mizzou ceilings. There are none using ITC on
their elements though (that I know of). I tried
suggesting it, but nobody wants to try it...they'd
rather change elements every four meltings. (keeping
a kiln on at 2150 for three straight days does tire
the elements a bit).
It goes the same way in the other direction...I dont
know of one potter who has ever used a silicon
molybdenium element on their kiln. Personally, it
would be great...not much affected by reducing
atmospheres...they are made for the glass
industry...set to hold at 3000 deg for months at a
time without replacement. However, they cost 150
dollars each, and you have to have a transformer and
fancy electronics to run them.
Think though...cone 12/13 oxydation, reduction,
possibly salt, etc...no problems, no babysitting.
Glass is addictive...the glass blower I took lessons
from always gave you a lesson for free. Generally
that's all it took. Like crack, take one hit and your
hooked.
I finally quit because I couldn't take the heat of the
glory hole...I wanted to work big, but that meant
having the hole open all the way...no arm hair and a
constant "sun tan". Got to be too much.
-Jacob
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 24 oct 04
Hi Claudia,
Nice mentions...fun...
A little amble amid them...below...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudia Kashpureff"
> Had fun reading post on staying away from glass blowers,
but it
> touched on something I've been thinking about a lot
lately -- that is,
> the segregation or separation that seems to exist between
the various
> arts and crafts.
Yes...me too sometimes...
Or the more one know about anyting, the more all the other
knowing-about-anythings, may benifit...
> I'm not a potter but I've worked with clay, and I'm
looking forward
> to working with it even more in the near future, after my
kiln arrives.
>
> I'm not a jeweler but I've worked with metal, and I'm
looking forward
> to working with it even more after my kiln arrives.
>
> I'm not a glass blower but I've been working with stained
glass
> recently, and I'm looking forward to fusing my own
elements to
> incorporate into stained glass pieces...
>
> ...and I'm looking forward to casting my own brass
fixtures and
> embellishments to incorporate into stained glass pieces...
For which a small Furnace, Tongs, Crucibles and Sand-Flasks
and so on, could be fashioned to fit the bill...as an
excercise in your wider aspires...
I threw some Crucibles (made the Tongs and Flasks and so on)
when I made such a smelting Furnace some years ago, and it
was like trying to throw cement or something ( sorry, I do
not remember the composition, but seems like lots of grog,
ball clay, powdered flint I think, and some refractory
something I had laying around at the time)...no elasticity
at all, but, they turned out nicely and did not crack in
such use as I put them through...
> ... and I'm looking forward to learning more and more
about glass,
> metal, and clay as time goes on, using what I learn in one
craft,
> applying that knowledge to another craft, and developing
new
> techniques through the cross-hybridization of these
various crafts.
Cool...
> Pottery glazes are, after all, glasses... Enamels used in
jewelry are also
> glasses...
>
> The greatest distinction I see between these three
fields --
> metalworking, glass arts, and pottery -- is that potters
form their
> work while it's wet, cool, and elastic, while jewelers and
glass
> artists must use torches and cutting tools to form their
materials.
>
> Long ago, guilds for each of the crafts kept their secrets
closely
> guarded. The end result is that different crafts
accomplish the same
> result with entirely different -- and not necessarily
equal -- tools.
Yes...quite so...Tools, and or methods or habits,
generally...
And, appromiate 'secrets', held by individuals too,
certainly...
> Stained glass workers cut their soft metal came (the
"lead" in
> between glass pieces) with knives and nippers. Jewelers
cut their
> metals with thin-bladed saws because knives and nippers
won't cut hard
> metals as precisely or without waste.
>
> But for difficult, precise, angled cuts in soft metals
like lead, you
> can't beat the jeweler's saw... which glass artists don't
use because
> they don't even know it exists! Instead, they struggle
along cutting,
> trimming, checking and often recutting difficult angled
cuts in their
> lead, trying to get them just right with crude nippers
when a simple
> saw would do the trick the first time.
Makes sense...
Too, a quite sharp Chisel, when the Came is cut laying on
it's side, webs vertically disposed, as for various angles
of matching vee-miters or what, done one side then the
other, may be found to be a fast and neat method. Cut, or a
sucession of more like 'trims', from the 'top' of course,
or as you know, the sides of the ( more or less) "H" will
bend or complain...
Too...to make one's own cutting Boards of Wool Felt lain on
some flat sturdy plywood or medite or other...glued down
neat.
And one's own 90 Degree cutting-square-guides for
them...guide Rulers too...as may be...made, and made to be
one's own.
Most practioners make their own simple assembly boards...but
go no farther...
Too, as quite good commercial 'heads' may be had as
replacements for existing Handles, one may get one of them,
and make one's own Handle for added comfort. At least, it
used to be, the handles of the Commercial or other Cutters
were not comfortable for the hand or fingers...
> That's just one example of a tool or technique used in one
craft that
> could be used in other crafts. I've run into dozens of
similar cases
> that made me wonder, "Why don't they just do it this way?"
Yes...
You have an agile quality of attention...!
> The answer is always, "Because they never knew it could be
done that
> way."
Yes...and...as the habits of rote learning, or of being
taught...which tend in practice, as a practice, to have
their own blinders...or kind-of focus anyway...
> Segregation vs. Hybridization.
And synergy...I s'pose...
> Love,
>
> Claudia
Love...
Phil
el ve
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