Paul Lewing on thu 21 oct 04
on 10/21/04 8:24 AM, Madrona Artist at madronaartistsguild@YAHOO.COM wrote:
> The problem is that every place has a
> different commission rate. If I pay myself a fixed
> amount for a piece, then because of different
> commission rates (20%-60%), my piece will be priced
> differently everywhere.
Charon, I can actually see a valid argument for both sides of this argument,
especially if the same work is being shown in the same town.
But I'd actually make the decision a little simpler by saying that a gallery
taking 60% of the selling price is immoral. I don't care what they do for
you, or how prestigious they are, or how much more they can get for the
work, or how high their overhead is. Selling art is not more important than
making art. Period. No ifs ands or buts. Artists can survive without
galleries, but galleries cannot survive without artists. Galleries are only
able to take more of the selling price than the artist gets because artists
let them. If they need more money from selling art, let them figure out how
to get a higher price from their customers. Personally, I think 50%
commissions on consignment is questionable. That's a wholesale price, and
if they want it for wholesale prices, they should buy it. But 60% to the
gallery is just wrong.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Madrona Artist on thu 21 oct 04
Hi all,
I had a question regarding pricing. I searched through
the archive and couldn't find what I was looking
for,.. so hear goes.
I have been putting my work for sale at several
places, some places I sell and some I don't. I am
looking to approach some galleries and other outlets
to sell my work. The problem is that every place has a
different commission rate. If I pay myself a fixed
amount for a piece, then because of different
commission rates (20%-60%), my piece will be priced
differently everywhere. I would not want a customer to
buy my stuff at a gallery (where the price would be
+60%) and then go to another place and realize that
he/she could have gotten it much cheaper. It makes the
person feel cheated. I hope I am stating my dilema
clearly.
One way to fix this would be to make sure that piece
is sold at the same price everywhere. Some places I
would make more money other places less. But that
doesn't seem fair to me either.
Response from those potters who sell their work at
different locations could better answer this question.
Thanks
Charan
=====
Madrona Artists Guild
3612 Center Street
Tacoma, WA 98409
http://www.madronaartistsguild.com
madronaartistsguild@yahoo.com
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Marcia Selsor on thu 21 oct 04
I think you should get the same price and let the retail vary according
to the varied commission. They should be varying according to locatio
and higher rent districts.
Marcia
Mike Gordon on thu 21 oct 04
Charan,
I would get your price and let the gallery charge whatever they have
to charge to stay in business. If you have a customer list, inform them
that galleries differ in their commission costs. I have had several
galleries that have told me that they will give me my price and they
will charge whatever the traffic will bear, no set commission.s, others
the are upfront stating their cost. Mike Gordon
On Oct 21, 2004, at 9:24 AM, Madrona Artist wrote:
> Hi all,
> I had a question regarding pricing.
> =====
> Madrona Artists Guild
> 3612 Center Street
> Tacoma, WA 98409
>
> http://www.madronaartistsguild.com
> madronaartistsguild@yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>
Craig Clark on thu 21 oct 04
I am in complete agreement with what Marcia suggests. This is not
based upon "fairness" or the lack thereof per say, but more in tune with
the fact that once you take your ware/art out of your shop/studio and
put it on the open market it is a commodity just like anything else on
the market. Sometimes you are able to find presicely the same product at
a different location for half the price.
While one-of-a-kind handcrafted pieces are not as likely to have
such varied prices there may be price varitations due to things like
LOCATION, type of business that is selling the work, what the type of
work is, etc,. The best that you can hope for is at least a consistent
and stable amount coming to you for each piece. Remember that once the
romance of putting your work in a gallery or having a show wears off the
hard cold reality of business knocks it's way into the room. Set a price
that really pays you a living wage for your work and let the
galleries/shops do whatever percentage price increase that is necessary
for them to make money off of your work.
One more thing, that 60% tariff is absolutely outrageous. I'd no
more give a gallery/shop 60% than I would sell them one of my daughters.
It borders on obscene. Be sure to watch those folks real close. I know
of many, many, many individuals who have been ripped off by the
"galleries" that have represented them. Ask them about a
contract.....ask them about insurance.....ask them about how often
artists/craftsmen are paid and how long they will wait before paying
after a sale is made. Not trying to dissuade, just saying keep your eyes
and ears open and keenly on your work. Check out all of the venues with
the better business bureau. Ask folks in the local professional
community about them as well.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Earl Brunner on thu 21 oct 04
You have the answer; adjust the retail price of the pots so that even on the
ones where you make the least, you are still making enough. Then on the
rest, you just do a little better. If you find you are selling too many at
the low end of the price, adjust your price.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Madrona Artist
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:25 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Pricing with variable commissions
Hi all,
I had a question regarding pricing. I searched through
the archive and couldn't find what I was looking
for,.. so hear goes.
I have been putting my work for sale at several
places, some places I sell and some I don't. I am
looking to approach some galleries and other outlets
to sell my work. The problem is that every place has a
different commission rate. If I pay myself a fixed
amount for a piece, then because of different
commission rates (20%-60%), my piece will be priced
differently everywhere. I would not want a customer to
buy my stuff at a gallery (where the price would be
+60%) and then go to another place and realize that
he/she could have gotten it much cheaper. It makes the
person feel cheated. I hope I am stating my dilema
clearly.
One way to fix this would be to make sure that piece
is sold at the same price everywhere. Some places I
would make more money other places less. But that
doesn't seem fair to me either.
Response from those potters who sell their work at
different locations could better answer this question.
Thanks
Charan
=====
Madrona Artists Guild
3612 Center Street
Tacoma, WA 98409
http://www.madronaartistsguild.com
madronaartistsguild@yahoo.com
_______________________________
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Carolyn Bronowski on thu 21 oct 04
Hello Clayarters--Yes, it is a problem with variable commissions. How I
have been able to handle that problem is to put DIFFERENT ware in the
different galleries, that way the problem is simply solved, for me,
anyways.. Carolyn in Modesto, with the sun shinning.
John K Dellow on fri 22 oct 04
Madrona Artist wrote:
>Hi all,
> If I pay myself a fixed
>amount for a piece, then because of different
>commission rates (20%-60%), my piece will be priced
>differently everywhere. I would not want a customer to
>buy my stuff at a gallery (where the price would be
>+60%) and then go to another place and realize that
>he/she could have gotten it much cheaper. It makes the
>person feel cheated. I hope I am stating my dilema
>clearly.
>
>
Madrona,
one way to fix it is to give each outlet a wholesale price and and
invioce which
states"sale or return in 60 days".i.e. you are paid an agreed wholesale
price if the
work sells and if it has not sold in the 60 days you come back and pick
it up. This will
not solve the problem of differing priceing due todifferent overheads
of each galley,
but if you can get away with a serjestion of a 100% markup , it will be
a win win situation.
--
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
From the land down under
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
Lauren Bellero on fri 22 oct 04
charan wrote:
>The problem is that every place has a
>different commission rate. If I pay myself a fixed
>amount for a piece, then because of different
>commission rates (20%-60%), my piece will be priced
>differently everywhere.
i know a potter who says "the work must be the same price
everywhere!" i've also read that if a piece is
'valued' at a certain price, then how could or why would
it be sold at any other price? meaning if one place sells
it for $100, then that is the 'value' of the pot and a
similar pot should not be sold for less anywhere else.
ok, sounds logical, but it also sounds like a way
to justify greedyness!
i am the maker and i am the one who hopes to receive
fair payment. for me, 'fair' does not always mean 'the
same' price (close enough is good enough--in my price
range it's not that big a deal, so if i don't add exactly
40% but 35% instead, it's good enough). likewise, i also hope
to provide a fair price to those whom i greatly appreciate
plunking down their hard earned dollar to buy my pots.
i think several factors come into play, but the 2
most impacting are:
1. how close are the venues you are selling in?
2. how well known or in demand is your work?
1: some of the places i sell in are several hours from
each other. one place takes a 20% commission (but i don't
expect that to last!!), another: 30%, another: 40%.
i will not price everything at the 40% markup!
just won't do it. to me, it is unfair to price work
that i can sell at home or at a street fair at 40%
higher because that's what it goes for in a gallery.
(and taking the hit by not figuring in some amount of the
mark up, is not an option!). if i was ever questioned by a
customer (which hasn't happened yet) i would explain that
the difference is in commission to the owners, not the
amount that goes to me. i think reasonable people can
understand that. i also think that most people who see the
work somewhere probably rarely see it somewhere else! and
if they do maybe they'll have the good sense to find me
on the interent and contact me directly the next time.
2. i'm not a "name", i don't think the average person
remembers from one shopping experience to the next which
potter made which pot and how much it cost. there's simply
just more important things to think about.
that's my story, and i'm sticking to it (until i change
my other mind).
lauren, the mudslut
--
Mudslingers Pottery, Lauren Bellero
http://mudslingers.home.att.net
39 Leroy Place, Red Bank, NJ 07701
732.747.4853
Laurie Kneppel on fri 22 oct 04
On Oct 21, 2004, at 8:40 PM, Paul Lewing wrote:
>>
> Personally, I think 50%
> commissions on consignment is questionable. That's a wholesale price,
> and
> if they want it for wholesale prices, they should buy it. But 60% to
> the
> gallery is just wrong.
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
I agree with you Paul and from my (admittedly minimal) explorations of
galleries in my area it appears that 50% is the going rate around here.
I used to have a small gallery that did 40%, but they closed suddenly
without notifying any of their artists. Luckily I only lost one small
platter. I have no idea where it ever went. I only hope it found a good
home. That experience notwithstanding I am still open to doing
wholesale and I will still do consignment with a gallery that I know
and trust.
I think what happened around here is at one time galleries were
charging between 30 and 40% percent commissions but the "high end"
established galleries were doing 50%. So all the smaller galleries
decided to try 50%, apparently still made sales, and the percentage
just stuck there. I haven't checked but I wonder if that means now the
"high end" galleries are all in the 60% range.
I did an outdoor art festival on Sunday - it was not a craft fair - it
was mainly painters with about 20% clay artists. Two of us were potters
with sculptures and tiles as part of our displays. (it was a very small
show due to a very threatening rain and winter storm forecast). Several
people asked me what gallery they could find my work in if they wanted
to see more during the year. I had to tell them this was it. That I
didn't feel my work would sell well with a 50% gallery commission
tacked on to the price. My prices are very reasonable, but I think at
double the price they might just sit on the shelf. Of course, you can't
really say that either because people "expect" to pay more in a
gallery. But would they really be able to sell a $15-$20 mug for
$30-$40? Would people pay those prices?
I think i need a course in marketing and pricing.
Laurie
Sacramento, CA
http://rockyraku.com
Potters Council, charter member
Sacramento Potters Group, member
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