Jon Brinley on tue 26 oct 04
Vince,
Not one to question...BUT, this statement sounds a bit contradictory. =
If it cause metals to corrode, What is it doing to
soft tissue?
Jon in Midland
The exhaust gases of a salt kiln are harmless, but will cause rapid =
corrosion of metal surfaces.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Earl Brunner on tue 26 oct 04
Does skin rust the same way metal does?
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jon Brinley
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:01 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: fiber salt kiln/Vince's reply
Vince,
Not one to question...BUT, this statement sounds a bit contradictory. If it
cause metals to corrode, What is it doing to
soft tissue?
Jon in Midland
The exhaust gases of a salt kiln are harmless, but will cause rapid
corrosion of metal surfaces.
Best wishes -
- Vince
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Earl Brunner on wed 27 oct 04
"I LOVE the smell of soda in the morning....."
--- Lee Love wrote:
> Earl Brunner wrote:
>
> >Does skin rust the same way metal does?
> >
>
> Skin is pretty durable. Lung tissue is
> more delicate.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
> http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
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=====
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
Louis Katz on wed 27 oct 04
>
Dilute saltwater "causes" metal to corrode as well but I ingest it in
the form of soy sauce. I would expect that gastric juice would have an
even quicker effect on steel and other metals.It is also mildly acidic.
Louis
> Vince,
> Not one to question...BUT, this statement sounds a bit contradictory.
> If it cause metals to corrode, What is it doing to
> soft tissue?
> Jon in Midland
>
>
>
>
>
> The exhaust gases of a salt kiln are harmless, but will cause rapid
> corrosion of metal surfaces.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Louis Katz
http://www.tamucc.edu/~lkatz
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 oct 04
Not one to question...BUT, this statement sounds a bit contradictory. If it
cause metals to corrode, What is it doing to
soft tissue?
Jon -
How about just plain salt water - what does it do to metal, and what does it
do to soft tissue? There's your answer.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 oct 04
Earl Brunner wrote:
"Does skin rust the same way metal does?"
Lee Love wrote:
"Skin is pretty durable. Lung tissue is more delicate."
Dear Lee -
And your point is? Can you cite any evidence that the exhaust from a salt
kiln is damaging to lungs? It has been pretty well documented by Jeff Zamek
and others that there is absolutely no evidence in industrial records of any
human health risk resulting from salt kiln exhaust. In fact, it is well
known that in factories where they used make salt fired sewer tile,
employees with colds would purposefully breath the cooled fumes from the
kiln during salting in order to clear out nasal and bronchial conjestion. I
would not recommend such a thing, but it does illustrate that aside from the
corrosion problems, salt fumes are pretty benign.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 28 oct 04
Dear Vince Pitelka,
You tell us <others that there is absolutely no evidence in industrial records of
any human health risk resulting from salt kiln exhaust. In fact, it
is well known that in factories where they used make salt fired sewer
tile, employees with colds would purposefully breath the cooled fumes
from the kiln during salting in order to clear out nasal and bronchial
conjestion. I would not recommend such a thing, but it does
illustrate that aside from the corrosion problems, salt fumes are
pretty benign.>>
Information I have is somewhat out of date.
I quote from "Ninety-sixth Report on Alkali,& c.Works in England and
Wales Covering the Year 1959". page 46, relating to salt glaze works.
Quote "The Chemical reactions occurring are even more complex than at
first thought though ......We had all assumed that the fume
constituents were unchanged sodium chloride, hydrochloric acid gas and
sulphur oxides derived from sulphur in the fuel. The working party has
found that the fume can contain nearly as much potassium chloride as
sodium chloride and smaller amounts of ammonium, lithium, calcium and
magnesium compounds"
Two years later (1961) after further study a confidential report was
presented by the British Ceramics Research Association under the title
of "Final Report of the Joint Salt Glazed Ware Air Pollution Working
Party". This paper confirms prior findings of the presence of Sodium,
Potassium and Lithium Chlorides and Sulphates"
I am sure Alfred or Rutgers University will have copies of these
reports.
I leave those who would believe otherwise to do as they please.
I would not work near a salt kiln as it is being fired, especially
when it is being baited, without wearing a respirator designed to
eliminated acid chemicals and particulate matter. My companions at the
Jane Hamlyn Salt Glaze Workshop will confirm this.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Lee Love on thu 28 oct 04
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> kiln during salting in order to clear out nasal and bronchial
> conjestion. I
> would not recommend such a thing, but it does illustrate that aside
> from the
> corrosion problems, salt fumes are pretty benign.
I was first made aware of the hazard reading Rhode's Clay and
Glazes for the Potter, page 288 But like you told Ivor, you
don't need the studies if you have the experience.
Old timers did a lot of things I wouldn't recommend, so it illustrates
little. ;-) If you told people that lacquer artists used
to lick their brushes to become immune to the toxins in the lacquer
tree, does that mean you should handle lacquer wood without
protection? I would hope not. My friend Euan had a severe reaction
to lacquer sap, when he tried to cut some up for firewood. He blew up
like a beach ball, had to go to the hospital.
I have two unique abilities: I can feel low level
electric current running through appliances when I touch them. If the
current is strong enough, like the large motors I used to work around
at UPS that powered the conveyer belts, I can feel current at a
distance. (I can't wear polyester, except for polar fleece.) Also,
I can feel airborne acid on my skin, even at low levels. When we
salted the last chamber of the noborigama, because the stacks were not
much taller than the roof, and we dampered them with double lengthed
bricks on top, you would get great billowing clouds of white mist
after the salting, right around the salt chamber. It didn't feel
good on the skin and you could taste the acid if you breathed it. I
usually left the kiln shelter until the clouds thinned out.
Hydrogen chloride gas is not meant for breathing. When it comes into
contact with moisture in the air and/or in your lungs, it turns into
hydrochloric acid. Doesn't mean salt firing is unsafe. You just have
to be aware of the hazards.
Soda might not be safer than salt, but it doesn't mean you
shouldn't avoid breathing the vapors if you can. Simple common sense.
http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/arthazards/ceramic.html
Health & Safety in the Arts
A Searchable Database of
Health & Safety Information for Artists
Salt Glazing Hydrogen chloride gas highly toxic
Hydrochloric acid can corrode metal fittings Use sodium
carbonate instead of sodium chloride; sodium chloride should only be
used outside, with canopy hood and high chimney; check for corrosion of
metal
http://www.usq.edu.au/faculty/arts/SAFETY/SWP/swp002.htm
Faculty of Arts
ArtSAFE
STANDARD WORK PROCEDURE
HAZARDS
During firing Hydrogen Chloride gas is formed. This is a corrosive
poisonous gas which produces choking fumes. The gas is converted to
Hydrochloric Acid as it meets the moisture of the outside air.
Possible Health Effects:
* Inhalation. Strong irritant to the mucous membranes.
* Eye contact. Strong irritant. May cause permanent or prolonged
defects
* Acute over-exposure. Choking, coughing. These effects may be
delayed for up to 24 hours.
* Chronic over-exposure. Inflammation and ulceration of the
respiratory tract.
--
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on thu 28 oct 04
Lee and Vince,
it always depends on severity and lenght of exposure.
I talked a few years ago with Bernd Pfannkuche from
Germany, international consultant in ceramics, editor
of Neue Keramik, and also author of 2 books;
one on kilns and the other a German/English dictionary
of 10,000 words used in ceramics.
Since he lives in the "land of salt firing", I asked him
if he knew of any health ill-effects due to this method
of firing and his answer was "NO".
I have already posted his answer on Clayart,
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Lee Love on thu 28 oct 04
Earl Brunner wrote:
>Does skin rust the same way metal does?
>
Skin is pretty durable. Lung tissue is more delicate.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
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