Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 26 oct 04
Dear clayarters, I've researched on pug mills for porcelain. There is
not much information in the archives or elsewhere on the net, so I once
again turn to you guys for answers. It seems that porcelain oxidizes
aluminum (if that is the right term to use.) I've seen this happen
before on the aluminum wheel heads; if I left a piece of clay on the
bare wheel head for a few days, it leaves a coarse "crust". That means
that a pug mill with an aluminum lined barrel will not be a right choice
for pugging porcelain, even though the aluminum will fire away. All info
I could find this far is that a Venco Super Twin( suitable for studio
potters) is an all stainless steel pug mill. Is that the only one
available on the market and is the theory correct that an aluminum
barrel would not work for porcelain? I know that I would not have pugged
porcelain in my pug mill in South Africa...
Thanks again.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo, MS 38866
(662) 869-1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
Fredrick Paget on tue 26 oct 04
>Dear clayarters, I've researched on pug mills for porcelain. There is
>not much information in the archives or elsewhere on the net, so I once
>again turn to you guys for answers. It seems that porcelain oxidizes
>aluminum (if that is the right term to use.) I've seen this happen
>before on the aluminum wheel heads; if I left a piece of clay on the
>bare wheel head for a few days, it leaves a coarse "crust". That means
>that a pug mill with an aluminum lined barrel will not be a right choice
>for pugging porcelain, even though the aluminum will fire away. All info
>I could find this far is that a Venco Super Twin( suitable for studio
>potters) is an all stainless steel pug mill. Is that the only one
>available on the market and is the theory correct that an aluminum
>barrel would not work for porcelain? I know that I would not have pugged
>porcelain in my pug mill in South Africa...
>Thanks again.
>
>Antoinette Badenhorst
It isn't the aluminum that causes the problem it is the alloying
metals that are put into it to make it stronger and easier to
machine. Pure aluminum is sort of soft and gums up when you try to
drill it or machine it, so there are 57 varieties of alloys that are
addressed to specific uses. . Bad choice of alloy for that wheel head
is the root of the problem.
Fred
--
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
fredrick@well.com
David Beumee on tue 26 oct 04
Hi Atoinette,
I've used a Bluebird deairing Model 440 pugmill for porcelain for years and it works great. Bluebird has changed the alloy used and I've had no problems with the hard crust that used to form between the porcelain and the inside of the barrel. I live in a very dry climate so I have to keep the mill full and use it every few days. Other than that it's a great little pug mill. Just right for one person.
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Antoinette Badenhorst
> Dear clayarters, I've researched on pug mills for porcelain. There is
> not much information in the archives or elsewhere on the net, so I once
> again turn to you guys for answers. It seems that porcelain oxidizes
> aluminum (if that is the right term to use.) I've seen this happen
> before on the aluminum wheel heads; if I left a piece of clay on the
> bare wheel head for a few days, it leaves a coarse "crust". That means
> that a pug mill with an aluminum lined barrel will not be a right choice
> for pugging porcelain, even though the aluminum will fire away. All info
> I could find this far is that a Venco Super Twin( suitable for studio
> potters) is an all stainless steel pug mill. Is that the only one
> available on the market and is the theory correct that an aluminum
> barrel would not work for porcelain? I know that I would not have pugged
> porcelain in my pug mill in South Africa...
> Thanks again.
>
> Antoinette Badenhorst
> 105 Westwood Circle
> Saltillo, MS 38866
> (662) 869-1651
> www.clayandcanvas.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on tue 26 oct 04
Antoinette:
I've used a Peter Pugger (all cast aluminum except for the auger,
which is stainless) exclusively for porcelain for almost a year now.
Yes, the clay does turn a strange, rather curious shade of teal/grey
when continually exposed to the aluminum. Yes, it does burn out in
the firing, leaving the porcelain white again. Yes, Venco does make
a stainless steel bodied pugmill.
I wouldn't say that an aluminum pug mill is "not the right choice"
for porcelain. I don't honestly believe it makes a difference, or
at least, IMHO not enough of a difference to affect choice when you
are spending that kind of money. Features and capacity should guide
you there. Personally, since I have seen stainless steel rust
(oxidize), I would be more inclined to stay with the aluminum bodied
pugmill. But that's just me. I may still be too much a newbie to
know better.
I have also had the experience of leaving clay on an exposed wheel
head. It does crust, but I believe it to be simply the clay drying.
I haven't noticed the wheel head deteriorate or pit as a result,
which would certainly be an indicator of a reaction between the clay
body and the aluminum.
Personally, I use the depth of the teal/grey color as an indicator
to determine where in the batch the clay was pugged. Deeper color
means longer exposure (older clay). Lemonade from lemons I
suppose. As an aside, I get roughly the same color from my throwing
water after a week or two. Oxidation? Bacterial? The clay seems to
forgive it all.=20
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Antoinette Badenhorst
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:30 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Pug mills for porcelain.
Dear clayarters, I've researched on pug mills for porcelain. There
is
not much information in the archives or elsewhere on the net, so I
once
again turn to you guys for answers. It seems that porcelain oxidizes
aluminum (if that is the right term to use.) I've seen this happen
before on the aluminum wheel heads; if I left a piece of clay on the
bare wheel head for a few days, it leaves a coarse "crust". That
means
that a pug mill with an aluminum lined barrel will not be a right
choice
for pugging porcelain, even though the aluminum will fire away. All
info
I could find this far is that a Venco Super Twin( suitable for
studio
potters) is an all stainless steel pug mill. Is that the only one
available on the market and is the theory correct that an aluminum
barrel would not work for porcelain? I know that I would not have
pugged
porcelain in my pug mill in South Africa...
Thanks again.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo, MS 38866
(662) 869-1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
____________________________________________________________________
__________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Antoinette Badenhorst on wed 27 oct 04
That is an interesting comment. If so, it means that some aluminum lined
pug mills will work well.....which ones then?
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo, MS 38866
(662) 869-1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Fredrick
Paget
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:50 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Pug mills for porcelain.
>Dear clayarters, I've researched on pug mills for porcelain. There is
>not much information in the archives or elsewhere on the net, so I once
>again turn to you guys for answers. It seems that porcelain oxidizes
>aluminum (if that is the right term to use.) I've seen this happen
>before on the aluminum wheel heads; if I left a piece of clay on the
>bare wheel head for a few days, it leaves a coarse "crust". That means
>that a pug mill with an aluminum lined barrel will not be a right
choice
>for pugging porcelain, even though the aluminum will fire away. All
info
>I could find this far is that a Venco Super Twin( suitable for studio
>potters) is an all stainless steel pug mill. Is that the only one
>available on the market and is the theory correct that an aluminum
>barrel would not work for porcelain? I know that I would not have
pugged
>porcelain in my pug mill in South Africa...
>Thanks again.
>
>Antoinette Badenhorst
It isn't the aluminum that causes the problem it is the alloying
metals that are put into it to make it stronger and easier to
machine. Pure aluminum is sort of soft and gums up when you try to
drill it or machine it, so there are 57 varieties of alloys that are
addressed to specific uses. . Bad choice of alloy for that wheel head
is the root of the problem.
Fred
--
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
fredrick@well.com
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Bonnie Staffel on fri 29 oct 04
I have an old Bluebird Pug Mill that has a stainless steel tube, tamper and
innards. I have processed porcelain in there without any problems. This
old one doesn't deair however, but I have not found any difficulties doing
without this function. Several potters who had the deairing mechanism, said
they disconnected it because it was too bothersome to maintain.
Regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel
http://www.vasefinder.com/
Potters Council member
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