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uneven pins on wheelhead (brent model c)

updated fri 5 nov 04

 

David Hendley on tue 2 nov 04


Well, it really doesn't matter if bats placed on a wheelhead are
centered. You don't even need to use round bats, for that matter.
Just attach the bat, throw down the clay, and center it. I know
it can be visually disconcerting if the bat is not centered, but
it makes no difference in the end result.

There is no way to, or need to, align the bat pins. The wheelhead
was manufactured with the bat pin holes in the proper places, and
you either make or buy bats to fit.
If you want to adjust or align anything, work on your bats, not
the wheelheads.

On Brent wheelheads, the bat pins are threaded and are tightened
with wing nuts under the wheelhead. Use pliers on the wingnuts if you
can't get them sufficiently tight with your hands.

David Hendley
Working hard to make sure there is no mug left behind
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com



----- Original Message -----
> I'm a student at a university trying to fix some wheels that we have been
having problems
> with recently. Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed on
the head of our
> wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with our
clay throwing. I've
> been unable to find any documentation about how to properly align and
tighten the pins from
> Brent, and figure here's the best place to look. The wheel heads
themselves are percectly
> fine, so its not a bigger issue than just figuring out how to get the pins
right

Earl Brunner on tue 2 nov 04


The only way it "might" be a problem is if your bat pin holes have become enlarged or the holes in the bats have become enlarged so that the bats or pins slip as the wheel turns. That shifting off of center will cause problems. But that isn't what was originally described. As described, David is correct.

David Hendley wrote:Well, it really doesn't matter if bats placed on a wheelhead are
centered. You don't even need to use round bats, for that matter.
Just attach the bat, throw down the clay, and center it. I know
it can be visually disconcerting if the bat is not centered, but
it makes no difference in the end result.

There is no way to, or need to, align the bat pins. The wheelhead
was manufactured with the bat pin holes in the proper places, and
you either make or buy bats to fit.
If you want to adjust or align anything, work on your bats, not
the wheelheads.

On Brent wheelheads, the bat pins are threaded and are tightened
with wing nuts under the wheelhead. Use pliers on the wingnuts if you
can't get them sufficiently tight with your hands.

David Hendley
Working hard to make sure there is no mug left behind
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com



----- Original Message -----
> I'm a student at a university trying to fix some wheels that we have been
having problems
> with recently. Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed on
the head of our
> wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with our
clay throwing. I've
> been unable to find any documentation about how to properly align and
tighten the pins from
> Brent, and figure here's the best place to look. The wheel heads
themselves are percectly
> fine, so its not a bigger issue than just figuring out how to get the pins
right

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Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com

James Mueller on tue 2 nov 04


I'm a student at a university trying to fix some wheels that we have been having problems
with recently. Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed on the head of our
wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with our clay throwing. I've
been unable to find any documentation about how to properly align and tighten the pins from
Brent, and figure here's the best place to look. The wheel heads themselves are percectly
fine, so its not a bigger issue than just figuring out how to get the pins right

Thanks
James M

John Bandurchin on wed 3 nov 04


James Mueller wrote:

> I'm a student at a university trying to fix some wheels that we have been
having problems with recently. Currently we have a problem that the bats
when placed on the head of our

We have a Brent B
I found that I had a similar problem when I would take a bat off the wheel
with a thrown pot on it and then put it back on to finish throwing when the
clay had firmed up a bit.
It was very frustrating, even though the 'off center' was only about a
sixteenth of an inch. I measured and re measured and found that the pins
were equal distance from the centre. However, finally I discovered that the
pins weren't lined up across the wheel, that is, a line scribed between the
pins didn't cross the centre of the wheelhead, but missed it by a sixteenth
of an inch.
My solution was to make sure I put the bat on the same way as it was before,
with the same pin through the same bat hole.
Mark the wheel head at one of the pins and mark your bats so that they go on
the same way each time.

John Bandurchin
Baltimore Ontario Canada

sdr on wed 3 nov 04


James said:

......we have a problem that the bats when placed on the head of our
> wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc
with our clay throwing........

It does not matter in the least whether or not your bats
are centered. It only matters if the CLAY is centered,
and that's not related to a centered bat. It is unlikely that
the pins are off center, but if they are, it does not matter.

regards

Dannon Rhudy

Craig Clark on wed 3 nov 04


James, the only thing that I can think of from my understanding of
the problem is that your bats may be shifting back and forth while folks
are attempting to center and throw. If this is the case then it is most
likely one of two things. Either the bats themselves have reached the
point where the pin holes have become to large or the bat pins are not
sufficiently tightened down.
If the pins are not tightened it's easy to snug them down. The holes
on the bats will present more of a problem in that you will need to
either get new bats, make new bats, or redrill the holes in the old
bats. In the mean time just get folks to put down a clay "cookie" on the
wheel head and then press the bats directly onto the clay. Works great.
No muss, no fuss. No bat pins to worry about either.
One word of caution. Think long and hard before you attempt to
"modify" the wheel heads themselves. This will most likely lead you down
a path of comparitively expensive repairs.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org

Hal Giddens on wed 3 nov 04


If the bat holes are too big for the pins you can try putting a little newspaper around the pens and then place the bats on the wheel. I bought a bat grabber a few months ago and it works great for the old bats with the holes too big.

"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left."
Seen on a cap of an older fellow wearing blue jean overalls and driving a brand new cadillac.




Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net

Chris Morgan on wed 3 nov 04


On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:38:13 -0500, James Mueller
wrote:

>Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed on the head of our
>wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with our
clay throwing.

I'm not sure what problem you are describing. Do the bats wobble up and
down or side to side? I wouldn't think that side to side would intefere
much, though it may be inconvienent, so I will assume that they wobble up
and down. If this is the case I don't see how the bat pins could be
responsible. Are you sure you aren't dealing with warped bats? Even if
you are having a side to side wobble, I would think that it is probably a
bat issue, esspecially if these are homemade bats. If this is the case,
perhaps you should examine the process by witch the bats are made.
I don't see how bat pins could be adusted to either center or uncenter a
bat.
I've
>been unable to find any documentation about how to properly align and
tighten the pins from
>Brent, and figure here's the best place to look.

For bat pins I just use quater inch socket head screws and I don't even
tighten them on the back, as I often throw with out a bat as well.
Gravity seems to be enough to keep them in place.

Hope this helps.
Chris Morgan

John Rodgers on wed 3 nov 04


David and Earl are correct. The position of the bat on the wheelhead
makes no difference. What matters is the work is properly centered on
the wheelhead, And that essentially means that the work gets centered to
the wheelheads shaft. Of course if the wheelhead is true, then will be
the shaft, as well as the work, and there will be no wobble. However, if
a bat has worn holes and bat slippage ovvurs, then centering and
throwing become near impossible.

If for some reason having perfectly aligned bat pins is essential, then
pull the wheelhead and take it to a machine shop. The machinist can
true the head to the shaft, and drill new bat pin holes of the right
side. . I did this on my own Brent CXC as I had a special attachment
built for my wheel and I needed different and bigger bat pins. The
drawback to larger bat pins is that the bats holes will no longer fit,
so be careful of what you do. In my case, I use plaster bats exclusively
with a drive key(Pure and Simple bat system) instead of depending on
bat pins to drive the bats. So for me, the pins were just something
sticking up in the way of things. So, I just carved the bat hole out a
bit bigger in the plaster bat, to allow more clearance, but not to
provide a snug fit.

Works for me.

John Rodgers
88 GL Driver

James Mueller wrote:

>I'm a student at a university trying to fix some wheels that we have been having problems
>with recently. Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed on the head of our
>wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with our clay throwing. I've
>been unable to find any documentation about how to properly align and tighten the pins from
>Brent, and figure here's the best place to look. The wheel heads themselves are percectly
>fine, so its not a bigger issue than just figuring out how to get the pins right
>
>Thanks
>James M
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>

claybair on wed 3 nov 04


Instead of a clay "cookie" I have
had success with just putting a small blob of
soft clay over the pin then squishing the bat down over it.

I agree with Craig .... don't mess with the wheel head....
it's just asking for trouble.

Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Clark


James, the only thing that I can think of from my understanding of
the problem is that your bats may be shifting back and forth while folks
are attempting to center and throw. If this is the case then it is most
likely one of two things. Either the bats themselves have reached the
point where the pin holes have become to large or the bat pins are not
sufficiently tightened down.
If the pins are not tightened it's easy to snug them down. The holes
on the bats will present more of a problem in that you will need to
either get new bats, make new bats, or redrill the holes in the old
bats. In the mean time just get folks to put down a clay "cookie" on the
wheel head and then press the bats directly onto the clay. Works great.
No muss, no fuss. No bat pins to worry about either.
One word of caution. Think long and hard before you attempt to
"modify" the wheel heads themselves. This will most likely lead you down
a path of comparitively expensive repairs.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org

william schran on thu 4 nov 04


James M wrote:> Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed
on the head of our
wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with
our clay throwing.<

Don't understand why an off center bat would cause problems with
centering. One is centering clay, not the bat. Granted an off center
bat might cause visual issues, but the clay responds to your hands,
not to the bat.
I've thrown on bats attached to the wheel head with clay/suction,
never got the bat perfectly centered, never had a problem with
centering the clay.
If the bat is not centered, then close your eyes and just feel the clay.

Now if the problem is the bats shifting slightly due to the holes
expanding, that's another story. That may need new holes drilled or
shoving something in the holes to stop the movement.

Bill

Earl Brunner on thu 4 nov 04


You know folks, We have been talking about James's little problem for about 3 days now adn other than the very first message where he indicated that he felt he had a problem, we haven't heard diddly from James. We can go on speculating for 3 more days, People have given some very fine suggestions, but no feed back from James. Funny how people just come here, ask their little question and don't bother to even respond to the feed back.

william schran wrote:
James M wrote:> Currently we have a problem that the bats when placed
on the head of our
wheels are not centered, of course causing all sorts of havoc with
our clay throwing.<

Don't understand why an off center bat would cause problems with
centering. One is centering clay, not the bat. Granted an off center
bat might cause visual issues, but the clay responds to your hands,
not to the bat.
I've thrown on bats attached to the wheel head with clay/suction,
never got the bat perfectly centered, never had a problem with
centering the clay.
If the bat is not centered, then close your eyes and just feel the clay.

Now if the problem is the bats shifting slightly due to the holes
expanding, that's another story. That may need new holes drilled or
shoving something in the holes to stop the movement.

Bill

______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.


Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com

James Mueller on thu 4 nov 04


>You know folks, We have been talking about James's little problem for about
>3 days now adn other than the very first message where he indicated that he
>felt he had a problem, we haven't heard diddly from James. We can go on
>speculating for 3 more days, People have given some very fine suggestions,
>but no feed back from James. Funny how people just come here, ask their
>little question and don't bother to even respond to the feed back.

My apologies Earl, I have been unable to get to my computer for the last day
(and since I posted late Tuesday night and is now Thrusday morn, I do not
feel that it has been three days, however I understand the frustration you
feel.)

A little update since you all gave me lots of great information I have had
to pour through, It is shifting problems with the pins, but whether they are
tight enough or not I've tightened them by hand and by allen key and wrench.
I've had most bats appear to be rotating in a slightly oval movement (only
one machine has this problem, the other problem machines are suffering from
out of line pins in which you do have to remove and replace bats the same
way). I'm attempting to see if it was any particular bats, but as the
machines and bats are not a year old as of yet, I highly doubt its wearing
out of parts. Thank you for your assistance all and I'll see what it is
that I can do and if I get a fix.

Thanks
James M

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James Mueller on thu 4 nov 04


Here's our final soloution to the pins (since uneven was not the issue, the
wobble was- thanks for all on clearing that up).

We took wire from a hand clay cutter and wrapped the pins shaft where it's
inside the wheel head. We then placed locking washers underneath and
finally the supplied wing nuts. It has apparantly solved the issue very
nicely, afterall perfection is not possible. The only hard part of this
soloution was getting the wing nuts on the bolt since the locking washers
took away some of the length you had to attach to on the bolt, but once they
were on no problems.

Thanks
James M

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Veena Raghavan on thu 4 nov 04


Hi James,

I find the same problem with the pins being oh just so slightly out of
line, so that, if one is throwing on a bat and need to remove it for
rethrowing the piece a little more after it is set up, one has to make su=
re
the bat goes on the same way. I have marked my bats at one hole, and have=

marked my wheel as well, so I know that side has to go onto that pin. Hop=
e
this makes sense. I also like to do my initial trimming on wet leatherhar=
d
without underwiring the pot, so the same thing applies, when replacing th=
e
bat on the wheel. This seems to be the easiest solution to me. Hope it
helps.

Veena

Message text written by Clayart
> I've had most bats appear to be rotating in a slightly oval movement
(only
one machine has this problem, the other problem machines are suffering fr=
om
out of line pins in which you do have to remove and replace bats the same=

way). <



Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com