Tarrant, Derek on mon 15 nov 04
Just a dumb thought, but all fuel burning kilns have an exhaust.
Why not cool a portion of that exhaust gas down to temperatures that an
automotive sensor can handle and measure there?
Derek Tarrant,
Weaverville, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:26 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: We don't need no stinkin' oxyprobe but we can have one!
I want to thank everyone that responded to my inquiry regarding the
oxyprobe for wood firing. The general consensus seems to be to
build the kiln, learn to fire it as you go, don't waste the money on
a toy that isn't going to work (for long). The heck with recording
data.
Sorry, folks, I don't buy it. Good records coupled with experience
means repeatability. I've heard that all along from a lot of you
onlist.
The kiln I'm planning is a hybrid gas/wood MFT. For wood,
certainly, Axner's oxyprobe is not going to be of much use, since it
cannot be used in a smoke/ash environment. While using that unit in
a wood kiln is not possible, the other side of that coin is that the
kiln will also be fired _gas_.
Whether I buy one or not; I want what I want, and my mind gets set.
(I get stubborn sometimes. It's called "dikscheidel" in German:
thickheaded) After all, I live in America. If we don't have it, it
just hasn't been invented yet. And dammit, it should be!
So I did some digging, (like a bull pawing at the ground before a
charge :>) I found out that automotive oxygen sensors won't work,
even mounted flush with the wall of the kiln, since they can not
operate at those temps. Led me to all the different types of O2
sensors, and how oxygen sensors work (thanks to the Robert Bosch
Corp website for that information.) No, what I was looking for
_had_ to be purely industrial.
Well, I know industry. Worked in too many factories and die-casting
shops during my misspent youth to not still know my way around some.
I called a few friends who were purchasing agents for the now
defunct steel industry and came up with this...
http://www.teledyne-ai.com/pdf/9060.pdf
I have an inquiry in now to find out if it can be used in a smoke
environment. It should be, since it operates in blast furnaces.
If you open their .pdf spec sheet, you'll see that it also operates
(with the right probe) at temps to 1400C.
One unit. Gas, electric, wood, hell maybe old tires too. Throw
Mel's 2X4 on the fire while we're at it...
I can just imagine the price.
Wayne Seidl
Key West FL US
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John Rodgers on mon 15 nov 04
Already been done, and several clayart folk are testing the method.
There was mention of this in a recent clay magazine, but unfortunately I
cannot remember which.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Tarrant, Derek wrote:
>Just a dumb thought, but all fuel burning kilns have an exhaust.
>Why not cool a portion of that exhaust gas down to temperatures that an
>automotive sensor can handle and measure there?
>
>Derek Tarrant,
>Weaverville, NC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
>wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET
>Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:26 PM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: We don't need no stinkin' oxyprobe but we can have one!
>
>
>
>I want to thank everyone that responded to my inquiry regarding the
>oxyprobe for wood firing. The general consensus seems to be to
>build the kiln, learn to fire it as you go, don't waste the money on
>a toy that isn't going to work (for long). The heck with recording
>data.
>
>Sorry, folks, I don't buy it. Good records coupled with experience
>means repeatability. I've heard that all along from a lot of you
>onlist.
>
>The kiln I'm planning is a hybrid gas/wood MFT. For wood,
>certainly, Axner's oxyprobe is not going to be of much use, since it
>cannot be used in a smoke/ash environment. While using that unit in
>a wood kiln is not possible, the other side of that coin is that the
>kiln will also be fired _gas_.
>
>Whether I buy one or not; I want what I want, and my mind gets set.
>(I get stubborn sometimes. It's called "dikscheidel" in German:
>thickheaded) After all, I live in America. If we don't have it, it
>just hasn't been invented yet. And dammit, it should be!
>
>So I did some digging, (like a bull pawing at the ground before a
>charge :>) I found out that automotive oxygen sensors won't work,
>even mounted flush with the wall of the kiln, since they can not
>operate at those temps. Led me to all the different types of O2
>sensors, and how oxygen sensors work (thanks to the Robert Bosch
>Corp website for that information.) No, what I was looking for
>_had_ to be purely industrial.
>
>Well, I know industry. Worked in too many factories and die-casting
>shops during my misspent youth to not still know my way around some.
>I called a few friends who were purchasing agents for the now
>defunct steel industry and came up with this...
>
>http://www.teledyne-ai.com/pdf/9060.pdf
>
>I have an inquiry in now to find out if it can be used in a smoke
>environment. It should be, since it operates in blast furnaces.
>If you open their .pdf spec sheet, you'll see that it also operates
>(with the right probe) at temps to 1400C.
>One unit. Gas, electric, wood, hell maybe old tires too. Throw
>Mel's 2X4 on the fire while we're at it...
>
>I can just imagine the price.
>
>Wayne Seidl
>Key West FL US
>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 16 nov 04
<an
> automotive sensor can handle and measure there?
Derek,
No reason at all provided you can calibrate your meter to give a true
reading in atmospheric terms. At high temperature the change form
Ferric to Ferroso-ferric oxides starts with oxygen partial pressure at
atmospheric pressure. Fe3O4 changes to FeO at a much lower partial
pressure, about 10^-6 atm at similar temperatures, but higher than
most popular firing temperatures say ^6,^8 or ^10. For 6^ you would
be seeking 10^-9 atm at ^6.
All of which casts a new light on our perceptions of reduction
chemistry.
There would be a lag in response time.
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
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