mel jacobson on mon 22 nov 04
this should be cleared up, right now.
my argument is the same as robin hopper's
argument. don't copy without giving credit.
it is so easy to name a glaze after your source.
when i pick up a magazine and there is
temmoku and orange...in combination.
and the recipe below is the same as i had just
published in cm. all the same. formula, recipe.
not good.
and the article is on temmoku and orange.
and, that is what i did at one time..well,
one word, like i found this recipe, mel
did it, would have been nice.
i did not invent temmoku, but, i did invent that
orange glaze in 1975. but, three other potters
published variations later that same year. one was on
the cover of cm. so, it was out there,
it is basically a high rutile and iron glaze used
over temmoku. it was very unique at the time.
it was a `rare bird` that covered shino very well.
you will notice i have never mentioned my base
glaze without saying `rhodes32`
i wrote david shaner and thanked him for that glaze before he died, sent
some money to help with his medical bills. i owed him, a great deal.
i give credit to hank for downfiring.
i give credit to pete pinnell for his cranberry.
many of us call it `pete's red`.
i always say nil's minnesota flat top kiln design.
it is the right thing to do. every time. and i never
mention my new work with out the name joe koons attached.
my biggest objection is publishing things in books or
magazines without credit for source. it is the
first rule you learn in school. plagiarism. it is bad
and will not be accepted. if you do it, you fail.
i live by that creed.
in many ways, in our modern world of art, this idea
no longer has merit. we are losing our way, and
it is not a good thing. talked to robin hopper this week...he
more than agrees. he thinks he has to state it with
more vigor.
the i/me world is growing. look at sports this weekend.
not good. also, the crowd wants to be a part of tv. make
news, it shines on self. no matter what you do, let it
be ruled by self. not good. reality tv, sex and violence.
well, it spills over. then of course, if they get hurt, sue
someone else. make it another person's fault.
same with copying. `gotta get good fast`, so do whatever
it takes. not good. it takes a lot more than copying to
become good at anything.
we all look to the past, to others for help and understanding.
that is how we grow. but, we should never take an idea
and claim it for `self`. it is too easy to get caught.
and, you will. but, in some ways, having a `reputation`
is now a good thing...shows you have power. and, boy
is that stupid. a few years wears that out really fast.
and, then you have no friends to lean on. your power is gone. forever.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
Ben Friesen on mon 22 nov 04
This has been a question for me... maybe a stupid question but let me ask it
anyway. As a newbie I have of course used glazes from all kinds of books. I
have a line of functional pots glazed with Randy's Red, for example, that I
call Dark Earth..... am I doing something wrong or what do you mean exactly
by "giving credit"??
Ben Friesen
Stonepath Pottery
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: copying my glaze
> this should be cleared up, right now.
>
> my argument is the same as robin hopper's
> argument. don't copy without giving credit.
>
> mel
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Christy Pines on mon 22 nov 04
This is not an old issue, and not combined to any one art. My mother is in
the business of food, and has constantly, continuously battled the issue of
a recipe that someone says "is mine" that in fact is verbatim word for word
(yes, redundant, to make a point) the same as a recipe from a Betty Crocker
cook book published in aught 10. It's a common complaint in any industry
where the participant wishes to be recognized for creativity and where
predecessors have most likely tried all the things that are available to us
today, barring technological innovations that make new
clays/glazes/sauces/cooking temps available that were not possible in the
days of a cast iron pot over a wood fire.
Tonight I'm feeling terribly creative and original because I took the
Mastering Cone 6 glaze recipes and layered Variagated Slate on top of Raw
Sienna, just to see what would happen, and I've got the most beautiful bowl
and plate and goblet that (in my humble opinion, as a very very new potter)
the world has ever seen!! Someone else's recipes and very likely someone
else has tried this combination before me. But I don't know for sure. And
the next thing you know, I might be writing to all the magazines talking
about what I've done, of course after I've investigated the chemical reasons
for why these things did what they did, but still... I don't know that I'm
not the first.
Actually, I'm pretty sure in most things I am definitely NOT the first to do
anything. But I always look to the example of my mother. She found an old
French recipe for the most amazing potato pie. And at the time was working
freelance for French's, who at the time made sliced frozen potatoes (don't
start, I know, crazy concept) but took that French potato pie recipe from
aught 20 (a more recent recipe than the one referenced previously!) and
adapted it and tested it and altered it and made it so that now, if she were
interested in fame and fortune (ok, maybe not fame and maybe not fortune but
certainly the opportunity to say that the recipe is hers), she could.
But she doesn't. She subscribes to the same school, I guess, as Mel. Do what
you want to the origins of the recipe, but reference where it came from. She
calls it French Potato Pie even though if you went to France, you'd probably
never encounter anything like it no matter how hard you looked. I call it
"Mom's Potato Pie" and it's the best thing I've ever tasted, no matter where
it came from.
My two cents after a long day:
christy in connecticut, who just unloaded my third glaze kiln ever and so
far everything is amazing. I've got things sitting on my kitchen counter
that I could swear were made by a real potter!!! I'm in awe. Every glaze
I've tried from Mastering has worked, including Waterfall, and the
over/under combos are my favorite.
cpines at ix.netcom.com
mel wrote:
snipped:
> don't copy without giving credit.>
and more of course. check the archives for the full details.
Dorothy Feibleman on tue 23 nov 04
Dear Mel,
Thank you for putting this on the internet, I only wish that curators might
read this and would not encourage bad quality ripoffs and encourage erasing
the connections with the originators --especially in Japan. American
potters are very open about sharing their thoughts and methods in the hope
that people will be inspired and go home and use the shared information as
a start ing point for their own ideas. Unfortunately, many people including
people who live in the US quickly block out the source from their brains
and either do a total rip or use in in teaching like they thought of these
things themselves. It is much easier to not use your brain and quote others
as your own words and rip their images and go into denial that they are
doing it but those who do it, know they are doing it in the back of their
brain and will not, in the end be satisfied or happy because they have done
it unless they are airheads and superficial. The truth does emerge in the
end---hopefully before the originator dies, but usually not. Most
non-potters who write about ceramics, do not seem to do much original
research but just re-write what they have read about and do not look at
what they are writing about. I have come to the conclusion that many
curators, and writers who are not makers find ceramics interesting because
they do not understand how to look at and evaluate what they are writing
about and that is why they became interested in the first place. They also
write for each other and we are just pawns in their chess game...At least
in their heads.
best,
d
>this should be cleared up, right now.
>
>my argument is the same as robin hopper's
>argument. don't copy without giving credit.
>
>it is so easy to name a glaze after your source.
>
>when i pick up a magazine and there is
>temmoku and orange...in combination.
>and the recipe below is the same as i had just
>published in cm. all the same. formula, recipe.
>not good.
>
>and the article is on temmoku and orange.
>and, that is what i did at one time..well,
>one word, like i found this recipe, mel
>did it, would have been nice.
>
>i did not invent temmoku, but, i did invent that
>orange glaze in 1975. but, three other potters
>published variations later that same year. one was on
>the cover of cm. so, it was out there,
>it is basically a high rutile and iron glaze used
>over temmoku. it was very unique at the time.
>it was a `rare bird` that covered shino very well.
>
>you will notice i have never mentioned my base
>glaze without saying `rhodes32`
>i wrote david shaner and thanked him for that glaze before he died, sent
>some money to help with his medical bills. i owed him, a great deal.
>i give credit to hank for downfiring.
>i give credit to pete pinnell for his cranberry.
>many of us call it `pete's red`.
>i always say nil's minnesota flat top kiln design.
>it is the right thing to do. every time. and i never
>mention my new work with out the name joe koons attached.
>
>my biggest objection is publishing things in books or
>magazines without credit for source. it is the
>first rule you learn in school. plagiarism. it is bad
>and will not be accepted. if you do it, you fail.
>i live by that creed.
>
>in many ways, in our modern world of art, this idea
>no longer has merit. we are losing our way, and
>it is not a good thing. talked to robin hopper this week...he
>more than agrees. he thinks he has to state it with
>more vigor.
>
>the i/me world is growing. look at sports this weekend.
>not good. also, the crowd wants to be a part of tv. make
>news, it shines on self. no matter what you do, let it
>be ruled by self. not good. reality tv, sex and violence.
>well, it spills over. then of course, if they get hurt, sue
>someone else. make it another person's fault.
>
>same with copying. `gotta get good fast`, so do whatever
>it takes. not good. it takes a lot more than copying to
>become good at anything.
>
>we all look to the past, to others for help and understanding.
>that is how we grow. but, we should never take an idea
>and claim it for `self`. it is too easy to get caught.
>and, you will. but, in some ways, having a `reputation`
>is now a good thing...shows you have power. and, boy
>is that stupid. a few years wears that out really fast.
>and, then you have no friends to lean on. your power is gone. forever.
>mel
>
>
>
>
>From:
>Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
>web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
>or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Mayssan Shora Farra on tue 23 nov 04
Hello Mell and All:
This is an eternal problem with all things.
Who said: Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for
your country.
come on who???
are you sure it is president Kennedy???
It was Gibran:)
Best wishes to all for a happy thanksgiving
Mayssan,
In still no Frost yet this year, Charleston , WV USA
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
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