Jim Norton on tue 23 nov 04
Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of Vanadium and
Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
Thanks in advance.
Ann Brink on tue 23 nov 04
I wouldn't expect to get blue from Vanadium- I'd expect yellow. If there is
some combination of materials which produce a blue- I'm ready to learn....
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA.....wishing you all a Happy Thanksgiving day with
family and friends.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norton"
> Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of Vanadium and
> Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
David Hendley on tue 23 nov 04
Vanadium and zirconium do indeed make blue. They are the colorants
in many turquoise blue stains. I like these stains because they give
colors that are very different from cobalt blue, and they are also
economical, at less than $10 a pound. They work in oxidation
and reduction.
As for the percentages of raw vanadium and zirconium to use
to make blue, I don't have a clue, and I question if it would even be
possible to obtain the desired blue without first making the stain.
David Hendley
Working hard to make sure there is no mug left behind
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I wouldn't expect to get blue from Vanadium- I'd expect yellow. If there
is
> some combination of materials which produce a blue- I'm ready to learn....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>>
> > Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of Vanadium
and
> > Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
>
John K Dellow on wed 24 nov 04
Ann Brink wrote:
>I wouldn't expect to get blue from Vanadium- I'd expect yellow. If there is
>some combination of materials which produce a blue- I'm ready to learn....
>
>
>
Ann,
Parmelee gives starting points for "Zirconium-vanadium blues"in
his book "Ceraic Glazes.
John
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
From the land down under
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
blazingbee on wed 24 nov 04
I hope this at least helps. I have not done this but I have a book
that says Fluid dolomite glazes can produce textured gray-blues.
Stoneware glazes containing 10% borax frit and tin or zirconium
produce textured blues. However, I feel they may be talking about
cone 10 glazes and I'm not sure what percenages they are talking
about.
I have another book that says vandium has a stronger staining power
when prepared as a stain with zircon to give blue but says the stain
mixed with Zirconium oxide gives yellow. Now I thought zircon and
zirconium oxide were the same thing. Ah...I see it says zircon is
zirconium silicate. I do believe they are talking about a stain that
you make yourself not one that is commercially prepared so I would
try it. As far as the amounts and the cone number... It doesn't say.
You can try a stain mixture that I use. It's equal parts by volume of
EPK, Frit 3124 and choice of colorant. I believe some people also use
3134. I think the Frit is also by choice. Can anyone else jump in
about that?
Hope this at least points you in a direction that you can start
testing. I'd be very interested if you come up with the blue. Feel
free to email me about your results if you do try it.
Crystal
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Jim Norton wrote:
> Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of
Vanadium and
> Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Ann Brink on wed 24 nov 04
Thanks, John Dellow and David Hendley for the info. I don't have Parmalee's
book, but will look through the books I have for any info. just for
curiosity's sake- (I already have enough blue glazes). I was just
surprised to hear that blue would result from what I think of as an
opacifier, and vanadium, which I associate with yellow. Jim Norton, who
originally wrote to ask about this, apparently already knew that it works.
Ann Brink
Subject: Re: Vanadium-Zirconium Blue
> Ann,
> Parmelee gives starting points for "Zirconium-vanadium blues"in
> his book "Ceraic Glazes.
> John
>
> John Dellow "the flower pot man"
> From the land down under
> Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
> http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
>
David Hewitt on wed 24 nov 04
Jim,
It is true that some blue stains are based on vanadium and zirconium .
For example, according to the Bailey Ceramic Supply web site Mason
stain 6391 is named vanadium blue and the formula is given as
(SiVZr/1,3,6).
http://www.bailrypottery.com/glazes/masonstains2.htm
This, however, is in a stain. If you were to add these ingredients to a
glaze, then the resultant colour will depend on the glaze to which you
add them. Vanadium as an addition on its own can give quite a wide
varieties of colours if added to different clear transparent glazes. I
do have one recipe of vanadium added to a glaze which does give a blue,
but it also gives an orange peel effect to the glaze. You can see an
example of this on my web site under Arcadia (Vanadium Glazes)
http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
In message , Jim Norton writes
>Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of Vanadium and
>Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
>Thanks in advance.
--
David Hewitt
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on wed 24 nov 04
Hello all,
from Smart's technological text on vanadium I had the honour of translating
:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/vanadium.htm
Colouring materials in ceramics :
Vanadium, in association with tin oxide, forms the yellows of tin-vanadium
Sn, V (Ti), with zirconium it allows, according to the technique used, to
obtain some yellows of zirconium-vanadium Zr, V (Ti In), greens of
zircon-vanadium Zr, V, Si (Sn) or turquoise blues of zircon-vanadium Zr, V.
So, generally these colouring materials are stable up to 1300°C. Of test in
atmosphere be preferable before use. Tests should be carried out under
different conditions (reduction, oxidation and neutral fire) before using.
The pentoxide, V2O5, dissociates easily above its melting point, which makes
it sensitive to reduction and allows the formation of VO2, V2O3 which give
turquoise blues in the presence of zircon (ZrSiO4) and silica (SiO2) under
the action of sodium chloride (NaCl).
Tin-vanadium colouring materials, among the most stable yellows in
temperature, are obtained starting from tin oxide to which small amounts of
vanadium compounds are added (V2O5, H4NO3V), and calcined in an oxidizing
atmosphere at cone 9-10 (Orton). Titanium dioxide additions (TiO2) attenuate
the lemon-yellow colour of these colouring materials by browning them.
© Smart.Conseil - January 2002
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Connie Christensen on wed 24 nov 04
I've been trying to get a nice green glaze that is semi-mat and breaks over
edges in cone 10 reduction (and not use copper that tends turn pink when
reduced). I mixed up 5 300-gram batches of a glaze base I liked and used
different colorants, one of them being pea green mason stain. I got a
gorgeous semi-mat, breaking over edges, light jade green. So, being
impatient and not mixing a 1000 gm batch to see if I got the same results, I
mixed 5000 gm because I REALLY liked the results. It turned out BLUE.
A nice sort of robin's egg blue. Anyway, not what I wanted. The colorants in
pea green are zirconium, vanadium and something else that I can't remember
at the moment. I retested, got blue again.
I had made an error measuring out the initial 5 tests, couldn't repeat any
of them. I'm now on test #90 trying to get that green by changing around,
adding, subtracting and anything I can think of to the ingredients to that
base glaze. I've gotten everything from toxic green to robin's egg blue but
not that beautiful green that I want. Dang! and Dang again! Drat too!
So, you CAN get blue using zirconium and vanadium. I used about 5% of the
Mason stain to get the blue - and also 5% to get the green.
At least my shino's aren't bubbling any more. More about that after I get
through the next two weeks of shows.
Connie Christensen
Arvada, CO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norton"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Vanadium-Zirconium Blue
> Could someone please advise me as to the usual percentages of Vanadium and
> Zirconium to be used in a cone 6 oxy glaze, in order to get blue?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Ron Roy on sat 27 nov 04
I don't understand the mentality of anyone who talks about toxic materials
and does not at least mention the problems associated with them.
The dust and fumes from Vanadium can have serious health effects - read the
MSDS info and at least understand what can happen - so you will know when
and why it's happening.
RR
>Vanadium, in association with tin oxide, forms the yellows of tin-vanadium
>Sn, V (Ti), with zirconium it allows, according to the technique used, to
>obtain some yellows of zirconium-vanadium Zr, V (Ti In), greens of
>zircon-vanadium Zr, V, Si (Sn) or turquoise blues of zircon-vanadium Zr, V.
>So, generally these colouring materials are stable up to 1300=B0C. Of test =
in
>atmosphere be preferable before use. Tests should be carried out under
>different conditions (reduction, oxidation and neutral fire) before using.
>
>The pentoxide, V2O5, dissociates easily above its melting point, which make=
s
>it sensitive to reduction and allows the formation of VO2, V2O3 which give
>turquoise blues in the presence of zircon (ZrSiO4) and silica (SiO2) under
>the action of sodium chloride (NaCl).
>
>Tin-vanadium colouring materials, among the most stable yellows in
>temperature, are obtained starting from tin oxide to which small amounts of
>vanadium compounds are added (V2O5, H4NO3V), and calcined in an oxidizing
>atmosphere at cone 9-10 (Orton). Titanium dioxide additions (TiO2) attenuat=
e
>the lemon-yellow colour of these colouring materials by browning them.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
=46ax: 613-475-3513=20
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sat 27 nov 04
Well Ron,
on the same site as where Smart published his text on the colouring
characteristics of Vanadium, my text on the health effects of this
material is also published.
Make your fingers work on Google and you will find everything you
have to know, search this engine like you would search the yellow
pages on your phone directory.
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Roy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Vanadium-Zirconium Blue
I don't understand the mentality of anyone who talks about toxic materials
and does not at least mention the problems associated with them.
The dust and fumes from Vanadium can have serious health effects - read the
MSDS info and at least understand what can happen - so you will know when
and why it's happening.
RR
>Vanadium, in association with tin oxide, forms the yellows of tin-vanadium
>Sn, V (Ti), with zirconium it allows, according to the technique used, to
>obtain some yellows of zirconium-vanadium Zr, V (Ti In), greens of
>zircon-vanadium Zr, V, Si (Sn) or turquoise blues of zircon-vanadium Zr, V.
>So, generally these colouring materials are stable up to 1300°C. Of test in
>atmosphere be preferable before use. Tests should be carried out under
>different conditions (reduction, oxidation and neutral fire) before using.
>
>The pentoxide, V2O5, dissociates easily above its melting point, which
>makes
>it sensitive to reduction and allows the formation of VO2, V2O3 which give
>turquoise blues in the presence of zircon (ZrSiO4) and silica (SiO2) under
>the action of sodium chloride (NaCl).
>
>Tin-vanadium colouring materials, among the most stable yellows in
>temperature, are obtained starting from tin oxide to which small amounts of
>vanadium compounds are added (V2O5, H4NO3V), and calcined in an oxidizing
>atmosphere at cone 9-10 (Orton). Titanium dioxide additions (TiO2)
>attenuate
>the lemon-yellow colour of these colouring materials by browning them.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on fri 10 dec 04
Ron,
the question asked was about the colouring power
of vanadium, not its toxicity.
Smart had written an excellent text on the use of
vanadium in ceramics so I thought I could post
an excerpt of his text to Clayart.
Smart and I, depending on our spare time, have
for a few years now tried to put on the Net for
the benefit of potters and the ceramic industry
joint bilingual texts on the technology/toxicology
of raw ceramic materials.
Our latest are on reduction firing (technology)
and carbon monoxide (toxicology) at :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/reduction.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/reduction_eng.htm
Later,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Roy"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Vanadium-Zirconium Blue
> Hi Edouard,
>
> I finally got to the site and the info is there but it seems down played
> to me.
>
> What seems strange to me is - you did not mention any toxisity in your
> post
> - so anyone reading it but not going to Smarts site would not know there
> can be problems?
>
> Did you just forget or do you not feeel it is important?
>
> RR
>
>>Well Ron,
>>
>>on the same site as where Smart published his text on the colouring
>>characteristics of Vanadium, my text on the health effects of this
>>material is also published.
>>
>>Make your fingers work on Google and you will find everything you
>>have to know, search this engine like you would search the yellow
>>pages on your phone directory.
>
>>Edouard Bastarache
>
>>I don't understand the mentality of anyone who talks about toxic materials
>>and does not at least mention the problems associated with them.
>>
>>The dust and fumes from Vanadium can have serious health effects - read
>>the
>>MSDS info and at least understand what can happen - so you will know when
>>and why it's happening.
>>
>>RR
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Ron Roy on fri 10 dec 04
Hi Edouard,
I finally got to the site and the info is there but it seems down played to me.
What seems strange to me is - you did not mention any toxisity in your post
- so anyone reading it but not going to Smarts site would not know there
can be problems?
Did you just forget or do you not feeel it is important?
RR
>Well Ron,
>
>on the same site as where Smart published his text on the colouring
>characteristics of Vanadium, my text on the health effects of this
>material is also published.
>
>Make your fingers work on Google and you will find everything you
>have to know, search this engine like you would search the yellow
>pages on your phone directory.
>Edouard Bastarache
>I don't understand the mentality of anyone who talks about toxic materials
>and does not at least mention the problems associated with them.
>
>The dust and fumes from Vanadium can have serious health effects - read the
>MSDS info and at least understand what can happen - so you will know when
>and why it's happening.
>
>RR
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
oliver on fri 31 mar 06
Dear Sir:
MAy I know how oxy-glaze process work for rubber product?
Thanks
Oliver
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