Earl Brunner on sun 28 nov 04

One of the problems I have is often when I throw something or otherwise make
it, it often looks ok at the time, but later doesn't. I find that
especially with the more sculptural pots that I make, if I can spread the
process out over several days; if I put it aside and come back to it in a
day or too (and do this several times) I can frequently see it with fresh
eyes that allow me to make the changes that make it better. When I do this
(leave it and come back to it) until I can't see anything else to do, I am
often more pleased with the final result than if I do the whole thing in one
sitting.

Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dorie Mickelson
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:37 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: personal aesthetic/topic; pleasing yourself

I know immediately when I see a piece of pottery (my own or
someone else's) if I like it or not. I know when I throw a pot if I
have done so to my own satisfaction, I know when my pots come out of the
glaze kiln if the finished product meets my own personal standards or
are pleasing to my own personal aesthetics or not. ........

Certain combinations of forms, colors, design elements, etc., speak to
me on a very deep (and probably unconscious) level and others simply do
not. When a pot is really outstanding (with just the right combination
of what I consider to be a beautiful form, a beautiful surface design
and/or texture, a beautiful glaze application, beautiful colors,
beautiful glaze interactions, etc.) it is a wonderful thing! And of
course, the way it feels in the hands, the way the rim fits against the
lip (if it is a drinking vessel), they way the food looks in it on the
table (if it is foodware), etc., all contribute to how I ultimately feel
about the piece.

Loretta Wray on wed 8 dec 04

I hope I reply to the topic properly, as I'm new to posting and
technologically impaired. The topic I'm responding to is "personal
aesthetic/topic; pleasing yourself."

I began "playin' in the mud" 20+ years ago in high school and dabbled
sporadically while raising a couple kids. I always just puttered on the
wheel making whatever simple little pieces I felt like. Took a few random
courses. Never paid attention to the teacher's attempts to teach us about
the history of pottery (Leach, Hamada, etc.) Pretty idiotic, I was young,
what can I say?

A couple years ago I became friends with a potter who keeps an "idea book"
with pictures, sketches, etc. of pieces she likes, techniques she wants to
try. I liked that method of learning. My memory sucks, so an idea book
works well for me. Now if I sit down at the wheel and draw a blank on what
to try I can pull out the old idea book for some inspiration.

My next "breakthrough" came when I took a workshop in Wooster, OH w/Phil
Rogers among others. He showed slides of work he's collected by famous
potters over the years. Some kinda light bulb went off in my head. This is
what my ceramics teacher was trying to get across to me with the "boring"
lectures on the history of ceramics (I wish I could watch that Hamada
video now!) Ever since then I've been conducting my own little research
project online, in books, magazines, etc. studying form and figuring out
what "speaks" to me and what I want to try.

In regards to copying others, I agree with Sam Hoffman who said he thinks
materials, recipes, and processes should never be kept secret. (actually I
think that was from an earlier post "stealing vs. inspiring" but I think
it goes along with this topic.) Everybody has their own style and may try
to copy someone's work or technique, but there's always something of
themself in it. I love learning new techniques and applying them in
different ways to my own pieces.

I also feel honored on those rare occasions when someone takes a technique
I think of as my own and tries it themself. What they end up with always
has a different flair and more often than not, it gives me even more ideas
to expand upon.

I know a lady who considers herself to be a good cook. She once told me
that when someone asks her for a recipe she leaves an ingredient out so
that they can never duplicate her dish. That floored me!! I can't decide
if that's a sign of an inflated ego or a lack of self-esteem. (I'm leaning
towards the latter and might add that I've never asked for any of her
recipes!!) I know a few potters who are like that. I guess I can
understand someone who feels as if they've put in a tremendous amount of
time and effort into developing a glaze or technique and not wanting to
just hand it all over to every person who drools over it. There is
something to be said for learning by trial and error. I'm gettin' to old
for it myself!

Happily, I know a greater number of potters who are more than willing to
share what they've learned from their mistakes or what positive
discoveries they've made (ClayArt is a good example. I cannot believe some
of the names I read of well-known potters willingly sharing knowledge with
pee-on wannabes like myself!! How cool!)

Here are some interesting quotes on the subject that I've collected:

"Stealing" vs. "borrowing":
=93(Marvin) Bartel used to say, =91Steal, don=92t borrow. A commitment to
artistic honesty.=92 I often use this quote to help my students understand
the difference between copying another artist and using that work as
inspiration. If you steal something, you make it yours. If you borrow it,
you have to return it. Bartel=92s use of this statement helped me focus my
ideas about creative integrity and originality. We all have climbed on
some creative back to get where we are. The questions is: Have we added
anything of ourselves for the next generation to climb onto?=94 David
Gamber, Ceramics Monthly, Sept. 04
(Hmmmmm! I always thought stealing was worse than borrowing. Different
spin!)

Thoughts on the creative process (i.e. when a piece I've just thrown on
the wheel looks nothing like the idea I had in my book OR my head!!):
=93For the studio potter, the idea and the creation dance back and forth
with each other. The result is that you end up responding to the material
directly. You don't just decide up front that a pot will look a particular
way; you see what happens during the making. It's an inherently mysterious
creative process where you don't have total control over how a pot comes
out.=94 Sequoia Miller =96 Clay Times Nov (?) 2004

Pleasing yourself vs. pleasing the customer:
"Don=92t you think making pottery that pleases the general public is very
restrictive? The general public thinks what is good is like Hallmark not
what is in Ceramics Monthly. Making pottery that pleases yourself, other
potters or the art critics is more difficult. And if you don=92t want to
have all your pieces around the house... you have to find a balance until
you know you are going in the right direction. Something interests me
about seeing a piece of pottery that says....=92come closer and look right
here=92 Or... =91come closer and touch me=92. Or... =93come closer and see m=
y
humor=94. Or... =91come closer and see how much this piece of shit costs=92=94=
.
- an anonymous potting friend


Ok, that's all of my quotes, now I'm just pondering again.....I have to
agree with Mr. Clennell, "We are our pots."

Judging from my pots (and a look in the mirror) I'd have to say I lean
more towards the robust than the refined. Altho I enjoy looking at refined
pieces, the ones that make me suck my breath in and want to pick them up
are earthy, simple, textured - "working class." These are the pots
that "speak to me." (Yup, I'm definitely of peasant stock.)

Don't you think we walk a fine line between attempting to say something
with our pieces and allowing the clay to speak through us? After I
expressed to a fellow potter that I was afraid I was just having fun in
the clay and not really "saying anything" with my pieces, the "friend who
shall remain anonymous" ended my lengthy verbage on the subject by
saying, "Maybe you'll 'hear' what your piece is saying when you stop
talking to it and start listening!" ye-ow!!

Or, in the words of a young pottery student named Sam that I found on a
website somewhere in cyber space, "First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do. Now, we co-operate."

Thanks,
Loretta Wray - who's obviously failing in my attempts to improve my
listening abilities!!