Ben Friesen on fri 7 jan 05
Teabowls have become my latest 'thing'... I've seen 'em in pottery books =
and mags mostly and for some reason they really appeal to me. So.. I've =
been trying to make them. So far so good but haven't fired any yet. My =
question is: can you actually hold them when they're full of hot tea??! =
Or what's the secret here? Thicker walls? Ahh, they're for cold =
tea...... I should've known........ :)
While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
Ben Friesen
Stonepath Pottery
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
- jealous of all those going to Mendocino.......=20
Ben Friesen on sat 8 jan 05
Thanks Lee... appreciate the info...
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: crazy question about teabowls
> Ben Friesen wrote:
>
> > My question is: can you actually hold them when they're full of hot
tea??!
> >
> You hold them at the foot and the lip. Actually, they tend=
to
like their drinks hotter here in Japan. They say this is the cause, (I
don't know if it is true) of the high incidence of stomach cancer here.
>
>
> >While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
> >
> >
> =E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E3=80=80Rice wine.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
> http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Lee Love on sat 8 jan 05
Ben Friesen wrote:
> My question is: can you actually hold them when they're full of hot tea??!
>
You hold them at the foot and the lip. Actually, they tend to like their drinks hotter here in Japan. They say this is the cause, (I don't know if it is true) of the high incidence of stomach cancer here.
>While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
>
>
γγγRice wine.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Hank Murrow on sat 8 jan 05
On Jan 7, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Ben Friesen wrote:
> Teabowls have become my latest 'thing'... I've seen 'em in pottery
> books and mags mostly and for some reason they really appeal to me.
> So.. I've been trying to make them. So far so good but haven't fired
> any yet. My question is: can you actually hold them when they're full
> of hot tea??! Or what's the secret here? Thicker walls? Ahh, they're
> for cold tea...... I should've known........ :)
>
> While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
Dear Ben;
Was just up in your neck of the woods getting an 'assay' jaw crusher
and plate mill from Don Hutchinson in White Rock.
Tea (cha), as served in teabowls (chawan), is brewed at around 190
degrees and is in powdered form (maccha) and stirred with a bamboo
whisk (chasen) to a frothy brew. Served ceremoniously, it is drunk in
one or two long sips and is not that hot. The bowl is wiped with a
cloth (chakin) before serving another guest. Since the entire powdered
tea leaf is consumed, it is considered near-medicinal.
Try this link for more info: http://www.tea-circle.com/
Sake is traditionally served warm, but gourmands have converted many to
the taste of sake over ice, where it takes on the flavor of melons.
Seems to be very hip in trendy asian restaurants lately.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
www.murrow.biz/hank
Rikki Gill on sat 8 jan 05
Hi Ben,
I have heard that the Japanese say that if the tea is too hot for your hand,
it is too hot for your throat.
Sounds reasonable. I make and use tea bowls. The hard part is handling
them in serving.
Hope this helps. Rikki Gill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Friesen"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: crazy question about teabowls
Teabowls have become my latest 'thing'... I've seen 'em in pottery books and
mags mostly and for some reason they really appeal to me. So.. I've been
trying to make them. So far so good but haven't fired any yet. My question
is: can you actually hold them when they're full of hot tea??! Or what's the
secret here? Thicker walls? Ahh, they're for cold tea...... I should've
known........ :)
While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
Ben Friesen
Stonepath Pottery
Abbotsford, BC, Canada
- jealous of all those going to Mendocino.......
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Cindy on sat 8 jan 05
Dear Ben,
Tea bowls are cool. Mel sent me one, and I have another that I traded for at
NCECA in KC. I love them both and use them regularly, but I have never made
a tea bowl myself. I will, one of these days. One bowl is thick, the other,
thin. I think I like having them thick better. It may have something to do
with the winter bowl/summer bowl thing. I think summer bowls also are
supposed to have a wider top. Other, more knowledgeable people, can expound
on that.
I'm not into the whole Japanese thing, but I do like certain aspects of
their esthetics. I love the tea bowls. I haven't had any trouble with them
being too hot, but I don't put them in the microwave. I pour the just barely
bubbling water over the leaves, carry the bowl to wherever I'm using it, and
sit it down to steep. So heat doesn't have that much time to transfer. Then
of course the tea starts to cool. If it's too hot to touch, it's too hot to
drink anyhow.
Have fun making tea bowls,
Cindy in SD
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 9 jan 05
Dear Ben Friesen,
It is an interesting fact that although glass was know in China for
many centuries the Chinese did not develop an industry which
manufactured glass drinking vessels. Perhaps they discovered early
that their porcelain drinking vessels had admirable thermal shock
resistance when filled instantly with a hot beverage yet were cool to
the touch because of the low thermal conductivity of this material.
If you look at the design and study the ritual you will realise the
connection.
between these facts.
Western culture placed much value on cold drinks, wine especially, and
hot beverages were a late comer to the European scene. So glass was
the preferred medium for manufacture of drinking vessels . Mulling
wine placed no thermal stress on a wineglass.
"Sake", Rice wine.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ted Eisenstein on sun 9 jan 05
>My question is: can you actually hold them when
>they're full of hot tea??!
>Or what's the secret here? Thicker walls? Ahh,
>they're for cold tea...... I should've known.....
Not quite: I believe they're for non-hot tea, because
if it's too hot to hold, it's too hot to drink. (It's not
cool tea, it's just non-hot, if that makes any sense.)
>While I'm at it, here's another one: what's "sake"?
Rice wine. Usually served warm (not hot, just warm).
Ted
Lee Love on sun 9 jan 05
I don't automatically think of tea ceremony bowls when folks mention
teabowls. There are many kins of teabowls: banchawan, chawan,
matchawan, senchawan, and yunomi,. There is relatively little
tea in a matchawan, so the heat is not a problem.
Here is a good site that describes them all:
http://employees.oxy.edu/mpitelka/bowl_terms.html
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Dave Finkelnburg on sun 9 jan 05
Actually, Ted,
As others already posted, tea bowls and yunomi and other tea "cups without handles" are made with a trimmed foot so the drinker can easily hold the vessel by the foot (tip of middle finger) and rim (thumb) when the vessel is full of scalding hot tea. Handles on tea cups were invented in the western world, and you will find flat-footed cups here precisely because such cups have handles. Either approach allows one to drink from, or at least hold, a cup of very hot tea.
Regards,
Dave Finkelnburg, who prefers to drink warm, not hot, tea!
Ted Eisenstein wrote:
Not quite: I believe they're for non-hot tea, because
if it's too hot to hold, it's too hot to drink. (It's not
cool tea, it's just non-hot, if that makes any sense.)
---------------------------------
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Lee Love on tue 11 jan 05
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>As for sake... It is rice "wine" although I think of it as
>"Schnapps" because it can be quite strong, especially when served
>hot.
>
>
Maybe white sherry? It has about the same alcohol content as sherry.
> It is pronounced SAR-KAY or SAR-KEY.
>
>
My Japanese is meager, but I hope this helps (UTF8 to read):
ι
; γ γγ(γ ι
)γ (n) alcohol; sake O-sa-ke
γ oh
γ sa
γ ke
The kana really helps pronunciation. There are some handy charts at this
website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
Osake is used for alcohol in general too. The O in front of sake is a
sort of honorific. O is used for many things like Oame (rain) , Oyuki
(snow), Omizu (water) and Okami (spirits.)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Earl Brunner on tue 11 jan 05
Isn't it only pronounced that way after you have had a
few?
> Janet Kaiser wrote:
>
> > It is pronounced SAR-KAY or SAR-KEY.
> >
>
=====
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
Janet Kaiser on tue 11 jan 05
Not sure anything you ask is crazy, Ben, but certainly not the
simple questions they appear!
This is because there are massive cultural differences between
east and west, which it takes many years and much study to even
begin to appreciate, let alone understand. I hope you will get
more books out of the library and wallow in all the detailed
information you can get your hands on... It is fascinating.
If your local museum has European tea drinking vessels from the
18thC to early 19th century, they too will be bowls, not cups
with handles. And yes, they would serve tea hot, although they
often poured it out into the saucers to drink! Of course Japanese
tea bowls do not have saucers... Others better qualified than me
will no doubt answer you in full, but really "it depends" can be
the only answer.
There are summer and winter bowls. There are those to cup in your
hand, either from beneath or from the side(s) and those you hold
between thumb at the foot and finger at the rim. Tall bowls,
squat bowls, thick walls, thin, undulating lips, even topped,
they come in a huge range of shapes and sizes, occasionally even
lidded. And in the culture they come from, the choice of bowl is
a very important part of making, serving and drinking tea...
Which is never the hurling of a tea bag into a microwaved vessel
of water!! "Tea" is anything from a powdered green tea to the
"leaves" we would be more familiar with in the west. Much depends
on the occasion and the time of year.
Practically speaking you sit and wait until the bowl is cool
enough to handle and when it is, the tea is ready to drink.
Because the bowl is chosen for the occasion, the tea maker will
know precisely how long a bowl needs to cools before it can be
handled, so on a cold winter's day a thick bowl which retains the
heat may be used, whereas another occasion a thinner taller bowl
so the contents cool faster. There is a formalised
social-cum-spiritual-cum-philosophical occasion known as a tea
ceremony, which prescribes the whole preparation and drinking of
tea. Fascinating and a lifelong subject of study -- literally. We
used to have a Japanese lady on Clayart who wrote about the
classes she was taking and would continue for many years... Try
looking in the archives as well as google for tea ceremony.
Anyway, there are various aspects which would delight a Tea
Master and his guests when handling a tea bowl, but which most
westerners would not even notice. Just imagine the reverse...
Someone who never has seen let alone used a cup with a handle...
They would not know or appreciate that there are good and bad
handles, but would maybe find out by trial and error.
As for sake... It is rice "wine" although I think of it as
"Schnapps" because it can be quite strong, especially when served
hot. It is pronounced SAR-KAY or SAR-KEY.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>Teabowls have become my latest 'thing'... I've seen 'em in
pottery books
>and mags mostly and for some reason they really appeal to me.
So.. I've
>been trying to make them. So far so good but haven't fired any
yet. My
>question is: can you actually hold them when they're full of hot
tea??! Or
>what's the secret here? Thicker walls? Ahh, they're for cold
tea...... I
>should've known........ :)
*** THE MAIL FROM Ben Friesen ENDS HERE ***
************************************************************
THE CHAPEL OF ART - or - CAPEL CELFYDDYD
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales LL52 0EA
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523122 http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Contact: Janet Kaiser: The International Potters Path
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URL Krueger on wed 12 jan 05
On Monday 10 January 2005 05:22 pm, Janet Kaiser wrote:
> Someone who never has seen let alone used a cup with a
> handle... They would not know or appreciate that there
> are good and bad handles, but would maybe find out by
> trial and error.
Being a continuous coffee drinker with thousands of miles of
handling handles I can truthfully say that for most of my
life I really didn't pay much attention to them. They were
just there to grab on to. Occasionally I would run across
a really uncomfortable one but otherwise I didn't really
notice them. Until I started trying to make them.
Now handles have become the bane of my existence. The
proportions. The shape. The joining with the body. I
believe that they could become the "study of the tea
ceremony" for the rest of my days.
Unless I get too damned frustrated and just make bowls.
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
Janet, your relating of Himself and his fears of the
bombings from 60 years ago reminds me that we here in
America have led a very sheltered life and can not know
what it is like to have bombs, missiles and bullets raining
down on us. We talk about how terrible the day of the
Trade Towers was but we forget that the people of Iraq are
living that kind of a day every day. Day in and day out.
When will it end? It will end when we say "ENOUGH !"
Janet Kaiser on wed 12 jan 05
I was only trying to point out it is not pronounced sake as in
heaven's!! Sarkey (i.e. sarcastic) comments are only helpful if
you give the correct answer! So how do you pronounce sake, Earl?
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>Isn't it only pronounced that way after you have had a
>few?
*** THE MAIL FROM Earl Brunner ENDS HERE ***
************************************************************
THE CHAPEL OF ART - or - CAPEL CELFYDDYD
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales LL52 0EA
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523122 http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Contact: Janet Kaiser: The International Potters Path
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 10/01/2005
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