clennell on sat 8 jan 05
the mendocino workshop/conference is planned
for no more than 100. the teachers are giving back
pay to make it this small. i do not make any money
going to mendocino even thought i am giving 6 presentations.
it is about having a great conference, meeting new people
and giving back to clay. that is why we are all showing
together. equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
cares.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Mel: There is not one person on this list that wouldn't like to fly to sunny
California land of the stars, book into a nice hotel room, meet up with
friends, share meals, drinks and good times and then strut their stuff in
front of 100 people. Some have to look in the mirror and ask the question
"Do you want to be an artist or a star?" This conference would be a large
chunk of change for most working artists. They don't stay at home bcause
they feel superior. If anything they feel inferior when they look in the
mirror cause it's the cracked one back home in the land of working stiff.
It is my hope that the PC will persue "a living wage for potters" and not
ask them to subsidize a conference for people that can afford to fly from
every region of the continental USA to attend a throwing workshop. Would $50
more really matter to this audience?
I believe that potters should live their lifes generously. I could do
volunteer work evey minute of the day. Going to take that mirror down, I got
work to do.
cheers,
Tony
P.S Thank you to all the well intentioned.
Elca Branman on sun 9 jan 05
I have to agree with Richard Aerni.
Simple idea but true...we are all experts on ourselves and most of us are
old enough to act on self knowledge and take full responsibility for the
results..
If you want to and are capable of driving all day and night and living on
beans and franks , in order to go to a conference, it is very simply your
choice and you should; conversely ,if you need to be solvent or fill
orders or can't hear( like me ) or have any other priorities, you know best
what is right for you.
Period.
One size does not fit all.
If it did we would all be doing nothing but raku(aaaaargh) or we'd all be
doing nothing but porcelain.(aaaarrrgh again)
Elca Branman
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Do you want to be an artist or a star?
Richard:
You forgot another side of that coin as well. ......
There are those that do without, that scrimp and save to attend the
conferences, drive around the country to attend "a throwing
workshop" and while there, live in their cars on next to nothing,
eat canned beans to get by..... I asked them why they put themselves
through that, why not waituntil NCECA was closer to them (they were from
somewhere out west
IIRC). One of them looked at me incredulous, and said simply
"Because it's all about the clay, man, and the knowledge".
I can't think of a better reason.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Moderator mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
>potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
>just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
>and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
>cares.
you receive from the clayart masses. But please, please, don't
belittle
those who don't do as you you, or who can't afford to do as you do.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
______________________________________________________________________________
Richard Aerni on sun 9 jan 05
Moderator mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
>potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
>just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
>and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
>cares.
I know you write a lot mel, and that your intentions are good, but this one
really takes the cake for tarring with a broad brush. I'm not going to this
conference...I don't feel superior, I'm not into looking into the mirror
except when brushing hair, teeth, and shaving. I'm not going because I've
got to stay home and work at my occupation which pays me little enough,
thank you.
I love what I do, not what I get paid for doing it. I've tried to pare down
my needs and wants to as little as possible so as to be able to practice the
craft of being a potter. My budget does not include time and money for
travel to conferences, be they NCECA or the one in Mendocino. I've not
reached a point in my life as yet where my investments/retirement fund give
me back enough to be able to indulge myself in that way. I hope to be there
sometime in the next decade or two, but that will only happen if I mind my
expenses and pay attention to the big picture in the meanwhile.
I know that you're putting in a lot to the ceramic world as a whole.
Believe me, I appreciate it, and so do others, judging from the adulation
you receive from the clayart masses. But please, please, don't belittle
those who don't do as you you, or who can't afford to do as you do.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Michael Wendt on sun 9 jan 05
Funny how hard it is to convey what we mean in writing or speaking.
I didn't interpret Mel's comments as saying anyone who stayed at home from
Mendocino somehow thought they were better than those who went. I find that
no matter how much I know, there is more to know. I am hungry to know more.
Conferences like Mendocino are for everyone of all skill levels to learn and
grow and to meet like minded people. My wife and I consider the cost small
when compared to the gain, but it is unfortunate that some cannot come
because of cost, time or distance.
For the record, ours is not a subsidy pottery supported by a working spouse
but a full time working pottery supported by two working potters with mo
other income source
.
Moderator Mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
>potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
>just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
>and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
>cares.
I read this to mean: if you think you are better than someone else for some
reason, stay at home... not as some seem to have read it:
If you stay at home you must think you are better than everyone else. Am I
reading it wrong Mel?
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Carolynn Palmer on sun 9 jan 05
In a message dated 9/1/05 10:55:38 AM, clennell@SYMPATICO.CA writes:
<< "Do you want to be an artist or a star?" This conference would be a large
chunk of change for most working artists. They don't stay at home bcause
they feel superior. If anything they feel inferior when they look in the
mirror cause it's the cracked one back home in the land of working stiff. >>
Thank you Tony for putting my feelings into words. When I first read that
line:
"Do you want to be an artist or a star?" I immediately thought, "Neither, I
just
want to make a LIVING!!!!"
-Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
Kathy McDonald on sun 9 jan 05
I had the same reaction to the post....
(...Richard Aerni's reaction below)
I just can't afford the conferences....
-Right now the ceramic market on the prairies
is so bad I can hardly afford the clay I need to make
my spring orders.
There was a time when things were better.......
before mad cow......before drought and other farm woes.
I did go to conferences then.
I envy those in a geographical and financial postion to
be able to attend.
I've even gone back to my day job.......we all need to
eat and pay bills ....
Mel maybe you didn't intend to have this impact and will claify what
your intentions were.
Kathy
I know that you're putting in a lot to the ceramic world as a whole.
Believe me, I appreciate it, and so do others, judging from the adulation
you receive from the clayart masses. But please, please, don't belittle
those who don't do as you you, or who can't afford to do as you do.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
Wes Rolley on sun 9 jan 05
At 11:36 AM 1/9/2005, Michael Wendt wrote:
I fully agree with Michael on this. Communication requires care on both=20
ends. We say what we think we mean and othesr hear what their current mind=
=20
set, feelings, cares, makes them expect to hear.
There is no objective truth other than science and not always there.
Wes
>Funny how hard it is to convey what we mean in writing or speaking.
>Moderator Mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
>
> equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
> >potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
> >just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
> >and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
> >cares.
>I read this to mean: if you think you are better than someone else for some
>reason, stay at home... not as some seem to have read it:
>If you stay at home you must think you are better than everyone else. Am I
>reading it wrong Mel?
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on sun 9 jan 05
Richard:
You forgot another side of that coin as well. There are quite a few
on this list that fit this side as well.
There are those that do without, that scrimp and save to attend the
conferences, drive around the country to attend "a throwing
workshop" and while there, live in their cars on next to nothing,
eat canned beans to get by. =20
Why subject themselves to that? Not only because they love what
they (want to) do, can't think of anything else they would rather
do. Clay consumes them totally, and they are thirsty for as much
knowledge as they can get, whatever the source. =20
I met two of them at the last NCECA. They were living in their car
(and Indy was COLD! last March) surviving on hotdogs and rice, not
sure they had enough money to buy gas to get home. But they came
every day for the entire conference, learned everything they could.
I asked them why they put themselves through that, why not wait
until NCECA was closer to them (they were from somewhere out west
IIRC). One of them looked at me incredulous, and said simply
"Because it's all about the clay, man, and the knowledge".
I can't think of a better reason.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Moderator mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
>potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
>just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
>and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
>cares.
I know you write a lot mel, and that your intentions are good, but
this one
really takes the cake for tarring with a broad brush. I'm not going
to this
conference...I don't feel superior, I'm not into looking into the
mirror
except when brushing hair, teeth, and shaving. I'm not going
because I've
got to stay home and work at my occupation which pays me little
enough,
thank you.
I love what I do, not what I get paid for doing it. I've tried to
pare down
my needs and wants to as little as possible so as to be able to
practice the
craft of being a potter. My budget does not include time and money
for
travel to conferences, be they NCECA or the one in Mendocino. I've
not
reached a point in my life as yet where my investments/retirement
fund give
me back enough to be able to indulge myself in that way. I hope to
be there
sometime in the next decade or two, but that will only happen if I
mind my
expenses and pay attention to the big picture in the meanwhile.
I know that you're putting in a lot to the ceramic world as a whole.
Believe me, I appreciate it, and so do others, judging from the
adulation
you receive from the clayart masses. But please, please, don't
belittle
those who don't do as you you, or who can't afford to do as you do.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Richard Aerni on sun 9 jan 05
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:11:25 -0500, wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
>Richard:
>You forgot another side of that coin as well. There are quite a few
>on this list that fit this side as well.
>
>There are those that do without, that scrimp and save to attend the
>conferences, drive around the country to attend "a throwing
>workshop" and while there, live in their cars on next to nothing,
>eat canned beans to get by.
>
>Why subject themselves to that? Not only because they love what
>they (want to) do, can't think of anything else they would rather
>do. Clay consumes them totally, and they are thirsty for as much
>knowledge as they can get, whatever the source.
Wayne,
And I say "thank god for those people!" I think I may be one of them...I
know I used to be, 30 years ago when I started in clay. Practicing what you
love, and learning as much as you can in your fields of interest, are
wonderful things to do, which give one satisfaction, stimulation and quite
often a wonderful circle of friends. I think all of that is great, and in
large measure, it's those kind of people who inhabit the clay world and make
it such a great place to be.
I was gently chiding mel in my post for comments that seemed to be a bit
overboard, IMHO. I appreciate mel, too, and all that he does. I wasn't
trying to imply that one had to be one way or another, just that one can
want to do things, but maybe just can't afford to them, and so doesn't.
That doesn't make anything right or wrong, it's just reality.
For me, if I slept all night in a car at my age, I doubt I'd be able to
unwind enough in the morning to get to the conference, let alone appreciate
it! But, if you can do it, by god, go for it!
All the best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 10 jan 05
Dear Richard Aerni,
If these Potter's Council Workshops are so important and have the
value they are advertised to provide there should be a spin off which
has universal worth. This information should be accessible to those
who, for various reasons as you state, cannot attend.
There should be a permanent record. That record should document
Research which challenges problems and provides answers for all of
the things which puzzle us, as well as illustrating the working
methods of people who present demonstrations. This document should be
made public and given freely to those who cannot attend.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on mon 10 jan 05
Elca:
What a wonderful idea! Porcelain raku!
Maybe with horsehair, or slips! =20
Big, thin necked translucent vases, screaming white...
Ooo...the possibilities!
Many thanks,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Elca
Branman
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:06 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Do you want to be an artist or a star?
I have to agree with Richard Aerni.
Simple idea but true...we are all experts on ourselves and most of
us are
old enough to act on self knowledge and take full responsibility for
the
results..
If you want to and are capable of driving all day and night and
living on
beans and franks , in order to go to a conference, it is very simply
your
choice and you should; conversely ,if you need to be solvent or
fill
orders or can't hear( like me ) or have any other priorities, you
know best
what is right for you.
Period.
One size does not fit all.
If it did we would all be doing nothing but raku(aaaaargh) or we'd
all be
doing nothing but porcelain.(aaaarrrgh again)
Elca Branman
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Do you want to be an artist or a star?
Richard:
You forgot another side of that coin as well. ......
There are those that do without, that scrimp and save to attend the
conferences, drive around the country to attend "a throwing
workshop" and while there, live in their cars on next to nothing,
eat canned beans to get by..... I asked them why they put
themselves
through that, why not waituntil NCECA was closer to them (they were
from
somewhere out west
IIRC). One of them looked at me incredulous, and said simply
"Because it's all about the clay, man, and the knowledge".
I can't think of a better reason.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Moderator mel wrote about the Mendocino conference:
equal billing/ students and teachers. it is what
>potters are/equal billing, no race, no gender, no age.
>just potter. and those that think they are superior/stay home
>and look in the mirror. be in love with yourself...no one else
>cares.
you receive from the clayart masses. But please, please, don't
belittle
those who don't do as you you, or who can't afford to do as you do.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
____________________________________________________________________
__________
____________________________________________________________________
__________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on mon 10 jan 05
Ivor:
Why should the information be disseminated freely, when those who
would attend are charged for that same information? Sorry, but I
must disagree with that. =20
I do however agree that there should be a permanent record. With
something as (potentially) important as the Potters Council,
historic documentation would no doubt be priceless to future
generations of potters. Just look at the excitement generated by
images of Hamada and Leach. Oh, for a videotape of a workshop with
either one!
I wish that there were a way to audio and video record the
demonstrations, and offer it for sale perhaps on DVD or videotape.
In that way, those who could not attend could still benefit from the
information. And with enough copies, surely one would survive into
the future, part of a collection in a library perhaps. =20
I do not know how royalties to presenters from such a sale of
recordings work. Something equitable would have to be decided upon,
I imagine. I leave that to better minds than mine .
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
If these Potter's Council Workshops are so important and have the
value they are advertised to provide there should be a spin off
which
has universal worth. This information should be accessible to those
who, for various reasons as you state, cannot attend.
There should be a permanent record. That record should document
Research which challenges problems and provides answers for all of
the things which puzzle us, as well as illustrating the working
methods of people who present demonstrations. This document should
be
made public and given freely to those who cannot attend.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Kim Lindaberry on mon 10 jan 05
Wayne,
I'm just curious, do you feel it is OK for all the educators that are
on the ClayArt List, who have students pay for the classes they take
from them, to freely disseminate their advice, tips, techniques, etc.
on the list? Should we all stop giving it away for free? Should we stop
posting to the list because someone else has paid for the same type of
information? . . . I'm also now curious, who would own the rights to
any demos? The artist giving it, or the organization that arranged for
the conference? I guess unless there was specifically a written
contract between the organizers and the presenters the artist would
(should) retain all rights.
Kim
On Jan 10, 2005, at 7:15 AM, wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
> Ivor:
> Why should the information be disseminated freely, when those who
> would attend are charged for that same information? Sorry, but I
> must disagree with that.
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on mon 10 jan 05
That's a very good question, Kim. I hadn't thought about it. I'm
not a paying student (though once I was), nor am I an educator. I
do attend as many workshops as I can. =20
I don't know the answer. There is a grey area regarding situations
like this. I heard the term "intellectual property" mentioned
recently, but I haven't had time to research it yet. Can a
technique be copyrighted or trademarked? I know that recorded
materials can.
Bear in mind that the following examples don't cover all the
possibilities.
In a classroom situation, where students pay for their "right"
(privilege?) to be there, I would think that educators are giving
information that already exists in books and other teaching
materials, perhaps tempered with their own personal experience. In
other words, passing information on. I think of Clayart as a sort
of electronic classroom. Just as in a real one, beings are
participating, ignoring the topic at hand, sleeping, joking in the
back . Much of the information presented is already available
elsewhere... (how many "check the archives" posts have there been
last year alone?)
In a workshop, beings come to gather knowledge from a _particular_
person, because of _that person's_ technique, personal knowledge
etc. They pay for that privilege (though I recently heard of a
"free" workshop onlist). Is the information or techniques gathered
from attending such a workshop still subject to the presenter's
control once the workshop is over?
Isn't the purpose of attending either one (or watching a
demonstration video) to learn and then USE the information presented
(even though it "belongs" to someone else)?
AAARRGHH!! This is making my poor head spin (not hard these days).
I would like to hear from educators and presenters on the list...
do you consider what you teach, what you share, still and forever
YOURS?
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
Wayne,
I'm just curious, do you feel it is OK for all the educators that
are
on the ClayArt List, who have students pay for the classes they take
from them, to freely disseminate their advice, tips, techniques,
etc.
on the list? Should we all stop giving it away for free? Should we
stop
posting to the list because someone else has paid for the same type
of
information? . . . I'm also now curious, who would own the rights to
any demos? The artist giving it, or the organization that arranged
for
the conference? I guess unless there was specifically a written
contract between the organizers and the presenters the artist would
(should) retain all rights.
Kim
Kim Lindaberry on mon 10 jan 05
Wayne,
Well this maybe a small piece of the puzzle in answering the
question(s). At the school where I teach there are occasionally some
students that want to tape record the lectures. I don't know, either
they can't take good notes or they want to be sure that they don't miss
a single word. For whatever reason they want to record the lectures.
One student even wanted to bring a digital video camera into a jewelry
teacher's demo. Neither tape recording or video recording is permitted
in our classrooms unless the student first signs what is a very basic
contract. The contract in essence states that they agree that what they
are recording is for personal, private use ONLY. It also states that
they may not show the recording to anyone else in either a public or
private setting, nor may they copy, or distribute the recording to
anyone else whether it is for profit or not. If they don't sign the
contract they may not record anything in the class. . . While teachers
maybe passing on information that is already available the particular
words they use during the lecture could be considered a performance of
sorts, and is therefore copyrightable. Of course there would be
exceptions to a lecture being copyrightable. For instance, if I stood
up and just read from a textbook I could not hold a copyright to that
since it belongs to someone else already. . . I believe technically any
original material I prepare for my classroom belongs to me. If I type
it and it is in my own words it belongs to me. Even though I freely
give copies of my material to my students, those exact words are mine
to do with what I choose to do with them. If a student were to take my
materials and publish them without my consent they would be infringing
on my rights. I share my classroom materials with other teachers at my
school too and we freely exchange assignment ideas. I don't worry about
really worry about copyright of my materials, but you can bet if McGraw
Hill started publishing my original course content (hah) they would be
hearing from a lawyer. . . I'm really not sure though about whether
someone giving a demo at a conference would have the right or ability
to control the use of their demo content whether it is a audio or video
recording. I think they should definitely have the right to not allow
anyone from recording the demo without their specific permission if
they should choose. Of course most artists don't get bent out of shape
if people take photos or turn on the video camera and I'm glad they
don't. The day may come though when attendees may not be able to
photograph or video tape everything they want to. At least that's my
opinion.
Kim
Kim Lindaberry on tue 11 jan 05
Hello Ivor,
I believe that who owns what, employer or employee, depends really on
the institution or company that you work for. When I worked for a large
agricultural chemical manufacturer during the summers between college
semesters I had to sign a form that stated that any discoveries or
inventions I made during my employment belonged to the company. My work
was in the R&D (research and development) of agricultural chemicals but
in reality what I did was work on an experimental research farm. I
planted and took care of crops, sprayed chemicals and took samples to
run experiments for EPA approval. Mind you I was just doing this for a
summer job and I had no interest in making the next great breakthrough
in pesticides or herbicides, but I still had to sign it if I was going
to work for them. I imagine that there maybe some US educational
institutions that may have similar policies but I don't really know
which ones. State institutions may have a different perspective than
private. I'm sure they do.
As far as the Mendocino workshop being private or public I don't recall
saying it was either. I guess if people are paying for the privilege to
be there it is a private conference. As a private gathering it would
seem that it should be possible to prevent any unauthorized recording
of a demo. I doubt that it is possible to protect any demos given in
public. I doubt that law would even support such a claim to copyright
in those conditions, but I am uncertain about that.
Kim
On Jan 11, 2005, at 12:03 AM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
> Dear Kim Lindaberry,
> I'm not sure what the principles are in the USA but in Australia and
> when I was working in the UK, any materials I prepared for the
> accomplishment of the task for which I was employed belonged to my
> employer. When I retired I had to leave behind all my teaching notes
> and programs behind. When I left employment in the metals industries I
> left behind my rights to share in the patents which had been taken out
> for processes I had invented.
> I think there may be some confusion relating to the Mendocino
> workshop. Is this a public or a private event?
Vince Pitelka on tue 11 jan 05
> I'm not sure what the principles are in the USA but in Australia and
> when I was working in the UK, any materials I prepared for the
> accomplishment of the task for which I was employed belonged to my
> employer. When I retired I had to leave behind all my teaching notes
> and programs behind. When I left employment in the metals industries I
> left behind my rights to share in the patents which had been taken out
> for processes I had invented.
Ivor -
When a scientist or engineer in academia invents a new device or process,
the school derives a great deal of the benefit, but the originating inventor
or scientist generally retains the patent. But as you know, scientists or
engineers in academia who originate valuable patents often leave academia
and go to work for private industry. In private industry, the patent
belongs to the company, but the scientist or engineer who originated the
device or process is generally compensated in proportion to the sucess of
the device or process. That is just good fiscal sense.
In the arts, music, literature, etc. in academia in America, original work
or process is entirely the property of the artist, musician, or writer. The
academic institutions have no proprietary rights to the work, nor is there
any reason why they should.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on tue 11 jan 05
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
>
>I do not know how royalties to presenters from such a sale of
>recordings work.
>
Creative Commons: "Some Rights Reserved": Building a Layer of
Reasonable Copyright
Offering your work under a Creative Commons license does not mean giving
up your copyright. It means offering /some/ of your rights to any taker,
and only on certain conditions.
http://creativecommons.org/
This is an exciting concept. Our times are motivated by greed &
materialism. I think this perspective hinders creativity and real
progress. Maybe we can be more than "consumers?"
http://creativecommons.org/
--
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 11 jan 05
Dear Kim Lindaberry,
I'm not sure what the principles are in the USA but in Australia and
when I was working in the UK, any materials I prepared for the
accomplishment of the task for which I was employed belonged to my
employer. When I retired I had to leave behind all my teaching notes
and programs behind. When I left employment in the metals industries I
left behind my rights to share in the patents which had been taken out
for processes I had invented.
I think there may be some confusion relating to the Mendocino
workshop. Is this a public or a private event?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 11 jan 05
Dear Wayne,
By disseminated freely, I mean "Made Available". I did not mean
"Gratis"
Potter's Council is an arm of ACS. ACS is a publisher of high repute.
I would have thought it part of their mission to make sure information
from PC meetings such as workshops, demonstrations, or conferences
were published so that we could access it if we so wished. Having seen
records of the "Whiteware" conferences the expertise is there to make
the record. Is there the will ?.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, 10 January 2005 11:45
Subject: Re: Do you want to be an artist or a star?
Ivor:
Why should the information be disseminated freely, when those who
would attend are charged for that same information? Sorry, but I
must disagree with that.
I do however agree that there should be a permanent record. With
something as (potentially) important as the Potters Council,
historic documentation would no doubt be priceless to future
generations of potters. Just look at the excitement generated by
images of Hamada and Leach. Oh, for a videotape of a workshop with
either one!
I wish that there were a way to audio and video record the
demonstrations, and offer it for sale perhaps on DVD or videotape.
In that way, those who could not attend could still benefit from the
information. And with enough copies, surely one would survive into
the future, part of a collection in a library perhaps.
I do not know how royalties to presenters from such a sale of
recordings work. Something equitable would have to be decided upon,
I imagine. I leave that to better minds than mine .
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
If these Potter's Council Workshops are so important and have the
value they are advertised to provide there should be a spin off
which
has universal worth. This information should be accessible to those
who, for various reasons as you state, cannot attend.
There should be a permanent record. That record should document
Research which challenges problems and provides answers for all of
the things which puzzle us, as well as illustrating the working
methods of people who present demonstrations. This document should
be
made public and given freely to those who cannot attend.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
______________________________________________________________________
________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Lee Love on wed 12 jan 05
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> and go to work for private industry. In private industry, the patent
> belongs to the company, but the scientist or engineer who originated the
> device or process is generally compensated in proportion to the sucess of
> the device or process. That is just good fiscal sense.
This is the story of the inventor of the blue LED that just broke (maybe
yesterday.) Companies haven't been very generous in Japan::
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050112a1.htm
> Nakamura has earlier said he toiled long hours alone in his lab at
> Nichia, enduring ridicule and bureaucratic red tape typical at
> old-style Japanese companies. He quit Nichia in 1999.
>
> He also said Americans often asked him if he had made millions from
> his invention and expressed shock when he told them how little he'd
> gotten.
>
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on wed 12 jan 05
My apologies, Ivor. Damn American English gets in the way
sometimes.
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ivor
and Olive Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:22 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Do you want to be an artist or a star?
Dear Wayne,
By disseminated freely, I mean "Made Available". I did not mean
"Gratis"
snip
Kim Lindaberry on wed 12 jan 05
Vince,
I think that "generally" is the operative word here. My dad held
several of the most productive patents for the same agricultural
chemical company I had worked for (yep, I admit it, I used family
connections to get the summer job ;-) ) He always bitched that he was
supposed to get a theoretical Dollar for each of his patents but he
never saw a single one. Some companies take better care of their
creative employees than others. Ain't it a shame.
Kim
On Jan 11, 2005, at 10:49 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> . . . In private industry, the patent
> belongs to the company, but the scientist or engineer who originated
> the
> device or process is generally compensated in proportion to the
> success of
> the device or process.
>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 13 jan 05
Dear Vince,
You make "Academia" sound like "Utopia".
In the end, it all depends on the fine print in your employment
contract.
Yes, I and my colleagues who contributed to patents with that chemical
company were well rewarded during out time of employment. I even
picked up some none contributory superannuation when I turned sixty
five. Not a lot, but it was appreciated.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
| |
|
