Vince Pitelka on sun 23 jan 05
>I had an interesting experience that is on point with this post suggesting
> the mug maker is dead. About 2-3 months ago, my wife suggested I make some
> wine goblets to replenish some of our breakage. Before I got to the task,
> she came home with 24 crystal wine goblets for $1.50 each; to be honest
> I'd
> rather drink wine from the crystal glasses and I had to reflect whether
> the
> wine goblet making potter can really compete.
Tom -
I appreciate your response, because crystal wine glasses have ALWAYS been
much preferable to ceramic goblets for drinking wine, unless you prefer a
common ceramic cup, which is fine for wine. Clay goblets might be a good
choice for the Catholic mass or Medieval reenactments, but they make lousy
wine drinking vessels. My apologies to any goblet-makers out there, but
clay wine goblets went out about ten years ago. As we all know, if the
stems on ceramic wine goblets are thin, then they don't survive, and if they
are thick, they are clunky and awkward, aesthetically and functionally.
This doesn't seem an appropriate comparison to the mug. The ceramic mug is
a wonderful vessel to make and to use. I can relate to production drudgery,
because I have been there, but why let it degenerate to that when it comes
to making something so basic and important? I think any potter can retain
the same love of the mug that Tony Clennell expresses so well. This is one
of the fundamental vessels of 20th century human existence, and there is no
reason why that should not continue into the 21st century. A good mug is
such an important fixture of the coffee or tea (or hot chocolate) ritual.
Okay, now I'm going to climb up on an even higher soapbox, and this is just
generally about mugs, for anyone out there. Much of this boils down to the
fact that few potters make really great mugs, and most of the fault is in
the handles. I am appalled at some of the crappy handles I find on mugs
made by otherwise good potters. So often the handles extend out much too
far from the surface of the mug, and there is no excuse for that. A mug
handle should extend out far enough to keep you from scorching your knuckles
and no farther, in order to keep the hand close to the center of gravity. A
mug handle should be comfortable for the fingers on the inside of the
handle, and comfortable on the outside of the handle as well, since usually
only two fingers fit through the handle, and the others rest against the
outside. This is so often overlooked. And those damn "thumb stops" (those
little lumps of clay on top of the handle) should be outlawed unless they
are designed and applied so as to be genuinely comfortable. So often, they
are a hindrance to effective and comfortable use of the mug. Keep the
handle clean, simple, and functional. Design the vessel form and the handle
so that the whole thing creates the aesthetic and utilitarian statement.
Don't distract from a good mug form by applying a fru-fruey Baroque handle
with swirls and twists and curley-cues. Ick.
I just love mugs, and I am very passionate about the details of good mugs.
Best -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Paul Herman on sun 23 jan 05
Greetings all,
The mug maker is very much alive at Great Basin Pottery! It's one of the
mainstays, along with bowls, teapots and plates. There's no denying the
omnipresent mug.
Like Tony C., most mugs don't sell as sets anymore. Vince you are right
about the clay goblets, they're hokey for wine. I could sell all I cared
to make, but don't want to make them anymore. Now I use a small
handleless cup for wine, or a glass stem cup. A wineglass lets you see
the color, which can be pretty.
Also please pay attention to Vince's handle rant below, he's right about
the crappy handles. With one small professorial comment he got me to
change my handles, by putting in a little wedge of clay at the bottom. I
like it. Last time he was here he implied the wedge should be bigger,
but I think they're good small. Oh well, thanks Vince.
Good mugs and handles,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://www.greatbasinpottery.com/
----------
>From: Vince Pitelka
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: The Mug Maker Is Very Much Alive
>Date: Sun, Jan 23, 2005, 4:49 PM
>
> I am appalled at some of the crappy handles I find on mugs
> made by otherwise good potters. So often the handles extend out much too
> far from the surface of the mug, and there is no excuse for that. A mug
> handle should extend out far enough to keep you from scorching your knuckles
> and no farther, in order to keep the hand close to the center of gravity. A
> mug handle should be comfortable for the fingers on the inside of the
> handle, and comfortable on the outside of the handle as well, since usually
> only two fingers fit through the handle, and the others rest against the
> outside. This is so often overlooked. And those damn "thumb stops" (those
> little lumps of clay on top of the handle) should be outlawed unless they
> are designed and applied so as to be genuinely comfortable. So often, they
> are a hindrance to effective and comfortable use of the mug. Keep the
> handle clean, simple, and functional. Design the vessel form and the handle
> so that the whole thing creates the aesthetic and utilitarian statement.
> Don't distract from a good mug form by applying a fru-fruey Baroque handle
> with swirls and twists and curley-cues. Ick.
>
> I just love mugs, and I am very passionate about the details of good mugs.
> Best -
> - Vince
Elizabeth Priddy on sun 23 jan 05
I am with Vince.
I love mugs. What I have to resist is the urge to make a hundred of them in production.
That can kill it for me. I have had to go back to a less efficient way feel the love again.
Still, you need more than a few to make a display. Once you have a few thousand under your belt; no, I am not exaggerating or kidding... You can go back to making a few at a time.
If you make about 4-6 each time you set up to throw, you will have about 60 at the end of a normal month of studio work. It will only take you about 15 minutes of warmup throwing to knock them out, and the handles are also good warm up work. For the other part of your making day. Finish your day up by putting them together.
60 a month 10 productive months a year, 600 mugs a year, ~$10 wholesale, so an additional sales of about $6000 a year for a warm up cool down part of your day, also a little canvas for you to work out some design and color experiments that will translate up to larger work. Why make glaze chips when yo can make mugs, which are a more representative surface.
$6000 is nothing to sneeze at. Same theory applies to tea or meditation bowls, anything you can knock out and that you really like to make.
Vince Pitelka wrote:
Tom -
...This doesn't seem an appropriate comparison to the mug. The ceramic mug is
a wonderful vessel to make and to use. I can relate to production drudgery,
because I have been there, but why let it degenerate to that when it comes
to making something so basic and important?
Elizabeth Priddy
252-504-2622
1273 Hwy 101
Beaufort, NC 28516
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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John K Dellow on mon 24 jan 05
Vince,
I cannot agree more about your statement below . I find some potters
here put the blasted thing on in the wrong direction .Its just sticks
into ones thumb
John
>
>
>
>
> And those damn "thumb stops" (those
> little lumps of clay on top of the handle) should be outlawed unless they
> are designed and applied so as to be genuinely comfortable. So often,
> they
> are a hindrance to effective and comfortable use of the mug.
> ________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
--
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
From the land down under
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 24 jan 05
Hi Paul, all...
Yah...good to hear...
The Mug ( and the Tumbler) and the drinking Bowl, the eating
Bowl, the serving Bowl, and the
Cup...deserve to continue their time-honored presence and
place...
After I move, and may resume throwing again...I intend to
enjoy making drinking vessels and many sorts of Bowls.
I am not sure I ever made Mugs as such, more like
Tumblers...never once a Handle.
Some of what I liked about making them, were that they were
fast to make, fun to make, made good Glaze Tests, good Glaze
subjects, and were satisfying to make and to use...and even
with a general theme or style, variations were easily
endless in subtlety, scale, proportion, and Glaze.
What more could anyone want?
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Herman"
> Greetings all,
>
> The mug maker is very much alive at Great Basin Pottery!
It's one of the
> mainstays, along with bowls, teapots and plates. There's
no denying the
> omnipresent mug.
>
> Like Tony C., most mugs don't sell as sets anymore. Vince
you are right
> about the clay goblets, they're hokey for wine. I could
sell all I cared
> to make, but don't want to make them anymore. Now I use a
small
> handleless cup for wine, or a glass stem cup. A wineglass
lets you see
> the color, which can be pretty.
>
> Also please pay attention to Vince's handle rant below,
he's right about
> the crappy handles. With one small professorial comment he
got me to
> change my handles, by putting in a little wedge of clay at
the bottom. I
> like it. Last time he was here he implied the wedge should
be bigger,
> but I think they're good small. Oh well, thanks Vince.
>
> Good mugs and handles,
>
> Paul Herman
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on mon 24 jan 05
Ok, Vince. You're allowed that soapbox, but while you're up there
let me clamber up for a moment...
Those of us with less than perfect health...which is more of us as
we age often encounter something called arthritis.
It makes holding things difficult, sometimes impossible.
At this point in life I've generally given up trying to hold
anything that requires my hand to cramp. This includes mugs with
handles that only allow two fingers to fit. Comfort becomes an
important deciding factor.
Admittedly, the pinkie is not our strongest digit. But for comfort
I want a mug (perhaps that should read "I won't buy a mug unless ")
that will accommodate all four fingers. Dainty teacups are one
thing, and a mug is something else. I don't use dainty teacups any
more. Too hard to grasp, and not worth the cramping. If served
one, I usually grasp it with both hands, ignoring the handle.
That way, my host(ess) is sure to get it back in one piece.
As the American population ages, ergonomics is going to play an
increasing role in what and how we design what we make.
Giving an eye toward the needs of the (becoming) elderly is good
business...(we/they) have more disposable income.
Best Regards,
Wayne Seidl=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Vince
Pitelka
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:50 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: The Mug Maker Is Very Much Alive
snip
A mug
handle should extend out far enough to keep you from scorching your
knuckles
and no farther, in order to keep the hand close to the center of
gravity. A
mug handle should be comfortable for the fingers on the inside of
the
handle, and comfortable on the outside of the handle as well, since
usually
only two fingers fit through the handle, and the others rest against
the
outside. This is so often overlooked. =20
snip
- Vince
kterpstra on mon 24 jan 05
Hi Vince,
I love ya but I say, "Balderdash!" Some of us casual wine drinkers want
to drink our glass of wine from a casual goblet. Of course it makes
sense for crystal when I'm all dressed up at a fancy restaurant. But at
5:00 in the evening when I get home from school or the studio and still
in my jeans and sweatshirt, that clay goblet just feels right to me. I
never seem to have enough in my studio for other people who want them.
Even the porcelain martini stemware finds homes soon after their made.
A good example is the chancellor of UW-L and his wife who bought a set
of Terpstra-Lou tequila tumblers to use and display along with a cabinet
full of crystal. They entertain all the time.free advertising for me. Of
course they are not going to throw out their crystal collection but a
few handmade pieces give them a choice from the mundane. They've been
using crystal for years. The ceramic ware becomes a topic of
conversation. The party crowd wouldn't normally ask, "hey where'd you
get that crystal tumbler?" People look at those handmade cups and
actually talk about them.
I also let my students make wine goblets if they want. The goblets are
a challenging little item and they sell like mad at the mid-semester Cup
Sale.
Best wishes,
Karen Terpstra
La Crosse, WI
http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/terpstra/
http://www.terpstra-lou.com
Vince wrote:
Tom -
I appreciate your response, because crystal wine glasses have ALWAYS
been much preferable to ceramic goblets for drinking wine, unless you
prefer a common ceramic cup, which is fine for wine. Clay goblets might
be a good choice for the Catholic mass or Medieval reenactments, but
they make lousy wine drinking vessels. My apologies to any
goblet-makers out there, but clay wine goblets went out about ten years
ago. As we all know, if the stems on ceramic wine goblets are thin,
then they don't survive, and if they are thick, they are clunky and
awkward, aesthetically and functionally.
William Lucius on mon 24 jan 05
I finally sat down at the wheel and pumped out 27 mugs. After adding 26 =
handles (one of the mug bodies did not make it through trimming) I began =
wondering why anyone would want to do production work. It brought to =
mind the passage in Warren McKenzie's book about the supervisor at the =
Leach pottery who punched a hole in every pot that varied even slightly =
from the ideal. Fortunately he did not show up at my studio that day. =
I persevered through slipping (two different slips), glazing (two =
different glazes) and bottom wiping. My mugs approximate Prehistoric =
Pueblo black-on-white corn gruel mugs so there are no turned feet or =
pulled handles. Instead I use graceful strap handles. This time I added =
a small clay button near the top juncture of the handle and body and =
impressed it with my turkey stamp. Oops! Too late to do anything but =
fire them (single fire ala Fran Tristam's book, which I got for =
Christmas). I hope to be able to tell Vince that the roughness of the =
stamp serves to aid in gripping the handle. =20
Next time I do a run of mugs I will remember to stamp them with my =
carved sponge (a stylized running band design common on prehistoric =
mugs) after slipping and before glazing. The ron oxide stamp design =
turns black under the whitish glaze. In the rush to glaze I forgot that =
step. And depending on how I feel, I might just add the button stamp to =
the top of the handle again. But no mug of mine will ever sport =
curlicues or pulled handles.
William A. Lucius
Institute for Archaeological Ceramic Research
iacr@mns.com
Kathi LeSueur on mon 24 jan 05
William Lucius wrote:
>I finally sat down at the wheel and pumped out 27 mugs. After adding 26 handles (one of the mug bodies did not make it through trimming) I began wondering why anyone would want to do production work.
>
Because we love to throw pots. Just the act of sitting at the wheel
throwing the same form over and over is enjoyable and, at times,
therapeutic.
kathi
Earl Brunner on mon 24 jan 05
It's a mental thing, and a discipline thing; maybe a Zen kind of thing. I
personally find it very satisfying to get into that kind of rhythm. You
(generic you) will find it difficult if your skill level isn't high enough,
or if you have trouble focusing. We have discussed this before. A number
of people have had a variety of excuses for not doing it. Never-the-less it
is suggested that one would arrive at a variety of benefits by doing it;
improved skill and speed, being two that come immediately to mind.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Kathi LeSueur
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:57 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: The Mug Maker is Very Much Alive
William Lucius wrote:
>I finally sat down at the wheel and pumped out 27 mugs. After adding 26
handles (one of the mug bodies did not make it through trimming) I began
wondering why anyone would want to do production work.
>
Because we love to throw pots. Just the act of sitting at the wheel
throwing the same form over and over is enjoyable and, at times,
therapeutic.
kathi
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Lee Love on tue 25 jan 05
Paul Herman wrote:
>Also please pay attention to Vince's handle rant below, he's right about
>the crappy handles. With one small professorial comment
>
Hehe. Professorial. Now that IS supposed to be
positive... ;-)
> he got me to
>change my handles, by putting in a little wedge of clay at the bottom. I
>like it. Last time he was here he implied the wedge should be bigger,
>but I think they're good small.
>
>
Good for you. My favorite handles aren't always made
this way. It is an aesthetic choice.
If you don't pull them too skinny on the end, and if
you tap the end on the table, it will flatten out and become thicker.
You can threat both ends this way. Also, rolling the fatten end on a
flat surface will help accentuate the edge.
Many potters in Minnesota and Wisconsin make these kinds
of handles. Randy Johnston and Mark Pharis like to keep the edges of
some of their work untouched, so the seams are shown off. Mark came
to this from working with tin, and how soldered edges on tin look.
Handles can be done this way too, but not if you stick a wedge in the
seam. You can add clay before you tap the handle on the table, and
this makes it look more like a part of the handle, while leaving the
seam distinct, visible, and with some distinction between the handle and
cup..
If you go here: http://potters.blogspot.com/ You can
see a little cup with a Jan McKeachie-Johnston handle of this type.
This is my favorite cup of the group of small cups Jean shipped over to us.
--
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Kate Johnson on tue 25 jan 05
>> he got me to
>>change my handles, by putting in a little wedge of clay at the bottom. I
>>like it. Last time he was here he implied the wedge should be bigger,
>>but I think they're good small.
>>
>>
> Good for you. My favorite handles aren't always made
> this way. It is an aesthetic choice.
And since I'm interested in historical pottery, I'm exploring a number of
the ways that "they" did it, for tavern mugs and what were called "drinking
cans." Some just attached with very little softening or blending, as Lee
said in his blogspot about Jan McKeachie-Johnston's work. Others folded
back on themselves at the bottom, which I find pleasing--you see some with a
potter's stamp there, and I've tried that with nice results. As Lee says,
it is an aesthetic choice...
By the way, I was also surprised to find how BIG some of those handles
were--definitely four-finger mugs. Going for serious practicality, I
guess...and it must have worked, for some of those mugs to survive, IN USE,
for 200+ years, according to _Ceramics in America_!
Best--
Kate
Lee Love on tue 25 jan 05
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
>
>Admittedly, the pinkie is not our strongest digit. But for comfort
>I want a mug (perhaps that should read "I won't buy a mug unless ")
>that will accommodate all four fingers.
>
Actually, these are what I think of as a mug: Something
you drink beer out of, like Old English slipware mugs. The smaller
vessels are cups.
You might enjoy these:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/2005/01/24/
At my teacher's workshop, we drank beer out of mugs like these
at the pre-noborigama firing and post-firing dinners.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org Join Woodkiln List:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodKiln/
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