Mark & Linda on wed 26 jan 05
Arnold Howard,said
>I'm compiling a list of reasons people choose one brand of electric kiln
>over another brand. I would appreciate hearing your opinions.
>
>I have never purchased a kiln, because I work at Paragon. I know first-hand
>the reasons why I would choose a bicycle or a camera, but I don't know
>first-hand why I would buy a kiln. So your feedback is valuable.
Over the past 30 years I've owned 4 working electrics and a few dead
ones for other uses. back when I did not have 2 nickels the most
important reason for one brand over another was cost. So I started
with a used kiln -a scutt. When my mentor teacher moved he sold me
his scutt as it was in better shape.. recently I bought a newer but
still used larger scutt as the size and condition were both good. i
have loaned out my oldest one to a friend. To put this in better
prospective I must say I only occasionally bisque in an electric as
all my work is high fire c11 porcelain reduction . I only use an
electric for last minute fires if the work cannot make the car kiln
bisque schedule. Now I'm a bit of a dinosaur
as 3 of these kilns only have kiln setters (dawson). No computers- no
ramp or hold gadgets.I have wired in a turn up device which turns
up,the kiln until the cone setter shuts it off. The newest scutt does
have a backup safety timer to shut it off as well as the newer 3 inch
wall thickness- wow its real neat. If I was in the market for a new
kiln i would look for the thickest wall lids and floor I could find
as well as a stepless control on all sections as well as a safety
timer and a cone setter. The computer is something I do not need but
that would take care of the ramp-up switch which is needed so one
does not have to turn the thing up. Those L&L element holders look
sweet so I may check the feed back on them as the soft brick element
groves are a bad design over time they fail. I did say I've been at
it 30 years. Also a great counter weighted lid and quality parts.
Preferably High grade stainless which over tine always rusts in
Humboldt county.. Most kilns have a poor floor support i have put
steel or aluminum under them and their frame.The trouble with
electrics is the uneven heating as the bottom is always cool I may
think about a brand with elements in the floor. I just realized
Arnold I may be doing your R&D for you. How about sending me your
best kiln and I as a professional will test it over the long haul and
then we both will know how yours holds up in this rainy climate and i
will know better as you which I may purchase.I will not charge for
the testing and we both get something out of it. I'll post my web
address which has the address to ship it to on the 1st page. Ps I
have shelves that are 23" and 26" so send one that fits those. Thanks
Arnold. Mark Cortright
http://www.liscomhillpottery.com/
Arnold Howard on wed 26 jan 05
I'm compiling a list of reasons people choose one brand of electric kiln
over another brand. I would appreciate hearing your opinions.
I have never purchased a kiln, because I work at Paragon. I know first-hand
the reasons why I would choose a bicycle or a camera, but I don't know
first-hand why I would buy a kiln. So your feedback is valuable.
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
arnoldhoward@att.net / www.paragonweb.com
Brant Palley NMCLAY.com on thu 27 jan 05
Dear Arnold:
I would pick one brand over another because....
Aren=92t all the bricks the same?
Isn=92t all the wire made by Kanthal?
Stainless steel?
Digital controllers? only two companies.
Does the kiln have enough power for the size given the type of work i want
to do?
Is the finished kiln beautiful? (Giel makes beautiful gas kilns)Does the
stainless look like it was cut out with kitchen shears? Are the bricks
broken and repaired at the factory?
Given all that.
I guess what i want is a company that stands behind the customer and bends
over backwards to make the customer happy. I want them to answer the phone
more than 4 days a week. I don=92t want to hear the attitude on the phone
that I am suspect of damaging the kiln by using it. I want security and
trust.
Brant Palley
New Mexico Clay
www.nmclay.com
annsemple on thu 27 jan 05
Arnold
you wanted our "a list of reasons people choose one brand of electric =
kiln
over another brand" Here's mine.
construction: I would choose a well made kiln first. That includes =
thicker bricks that are cleanly cut and well fitted . sloppy cutting =
and jagged edges tell about more than just appearance. And some =
guarantee that the model on which the purchase was based was the same =
quality as the one the purchaser receives.
and in spite of the benefits of element grooves, unless they can be =
improved ( it is difficult to avoid adage to the brick when changing =
elements in mine) I'd be happier without them.=20
Outer shell - heavy gauge stainless steel, well constructed, well =
supported floor and door, large (stainless) hinges
And with the electric controller, a bypass so that when the probe goes =
after 63 firings, it is possible to fire the kiln while you wait for 4 =
months for the kiln company to come up with a replacement probe. And I =
am NOT referring to Paragon kilns .
and finally , and possibly most important, a customer relations set up =
where the contact:=20
1:knows his own kilns ( like how many elements there are in a specific =
model)=20
2:gives safe and savvy advice ( unlike a certain kiln manufacturer who =
tried to convince me to go ahead and fire my kiln as it was - wired for =
208 v instead of the 240v ordered)=20
3:does what he says he is going to do ( if he says he'll get a part out =
the next day, do it, not wait until the customer has called half a dozen =
times
Ann Semple
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
annsemple@shaw.ca
www.clayfootcrockery.com
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of =
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to =
skid in sideways, champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, =
body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a =
Ride!" (Hunter S. Thompson)
Maurice Weitman on thu 27 jan 05
At 8:42 AM -0600 on 1/26/05, Arnold Howard wrote:
>I'm compiling a list of reasons people choose one brand of electric kiln
>over another brand. I would appreciate hearing your opinions.
Hello, Arnold,
Here's my list; I'm looking for safety, functionality, longevity, and value.
Price is always a consideration, though certainly not the most important.
The rest, in no order:
- can get to cone 10+ without breaking a sweat (floor element?)
- has well-designed system for access to electronics
- electronics that stay cool
- uses Bartlett controller (want to use their KISS system)
- very, very highly insulated -- the more the better, and then some
- pivoting peeps
- offer of ITC coatings, or my use will not void warranty
- heaviest, most robust elements
- I really like L&L's element holders
- secure hinge and prop systems for lid
- I would want to use a vent with its motor on the wall
- S-type thermocouples, at least optionally
- mercury relays, easily user-replaced
- long warranty, great support, fast remedy of problems
- kiln sitter, at least optionally
- provision for external, safety relay to kill power in case of
stuck relay (Bartlett's new controller will feature this)
- and I still don't care about catchy names
Thanks for your continued interest and help to us on clayart, Arnold.
Regards,
Maurice, in Fairfax, California, where the milkmaids have been
gracing our hillside for two weeks and something red, maybe Indian
Paintbrush, are beginning to pop, and where joy abounds in
celebration of Maryland's win over Duke last night. Although the
colors are different, Duke basketball teams and their fans remind me
all too much of those of NY Yankees persuasion. Including my
daughter... O, the humanity!
william schran on thu 27 jan 05
Arnold wrote:>I'm compiling a list of reasons people choose one brand
of electric kiln
over another brand. I would appreciate hearing your opinions.<
Arnold - I must preface my remarks by writing that I have never fired
or worked on a Paragon kiln, and thus, will make no comments
regarding that brand.
I have fired and/or worked on/made repairs to Amaco, Skutt, ConeArt,
Olympic, Cress, Estrin, Crusader and L&L kilns. Each brand has their
plus and minus points.
Here is what I'd like to have on a kiln: option of plug in (realize
only allowed up to 50 amps) or hardwire, easy access to
wiring/switches (hinged box), infinite switches and a simple plug in
for a programmable controller (for later purchase), all stainless
steel connections, comes with a vent system that has the motor
mounted away from the kiln, digital pyrometer with metal sheathed
thermocouples, 3" brick walls standard, kiln comes in sections with
some type of seal between sections (I use scraps of insulating
blanket on all my kilns) and lastly, a system to hold the elements
without having to use element pins (L&L having a good system).... and
which is why we have 5 L&L kilns at school and one Axner Super kiln
aka, Olympic, that after replacing the elements one time in this
monster, will kindly replace the kiln with another L&L when the time
comes.
Bill
sincultura13 on thu 27 jan 05
Yeah... what he said... but those L&L element thingies are pretty
neat. ;)
Where I live since there's not much support for any brand, most
likely price/durability are going to do a lot with my decision...
Sincultura
> I would pick one brand over another because....
>
> Aren't all the bricks the same?
> Isn't all the wire made by Kanthal?
> Stainless steel?
> Digital controllers? only two companies.
>
> Does the kiln have enough power for the size given the type of
work i want
> to do?
>
> Is the finished kiln beautiful? (Giel makes beautiful gas kilns)
Does the
> stainless look like it was cut out with kitchen shears? Are the
bricks
> broken and repaired at the factory?
>
> Given all that.
>
> I guess what i want is a company that stands behind the customer
and bends
> over backwards to make the customer happy. I want them to answer
the phone
> more than 4 days a week. I don't want to hear the attitude on the
phone
> that I am suspect of damaging the kiln by using it. I want
security and
> trust.
>
> Brant Palley
> New Mexico Clay
> www.nmclay.com
>
>
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bonnie staffel on sat 29 jan 05
I was impressed with L&L element holders which sold their kiln for me. Had
one many years ago with the same holder situation. Great asset as the
grooves are not damaged when changing elements. I had excellent help from
them when installing my new DaVinci kiln with a controller, timer and Kiln
setter. I also have a counter balanced lid that eases the process of
opening the kiln.
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
Charter Member Potters Council
URL Krueger on sat 29 jan 05
Arnold,
I have seen some say "use 3" brick" and others say "the more
insulation the better".
I look at the insulation question as a total cost of
ownership issue. More insulation will cut energy
consumption but at some point extra insulation will not
create enough savings within a reasonable time frame to pay
for itself.
If you designed a kiln from the ground up with total cost of
ownership as a predominate factor and followed that with a
marketing campaign based on that concept it might be more
attractive to professional potters and maybe schools.
Hobyists might be more concerned with up-front costs
though.
Just my thoughts.
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
What will Mr. Bush do if the Iraqi Parliment
decides they want a Theocracy? Will he
endorse their decision as the will of the people
or will he only accept a Democracy? If the latter
isn't he then being a Dictator?
Linda Ferzoco on sat 29 jan 05
I'm close to buying my first (electric) kiln and here are some of my
considerations.
1. Reputation for reliability, which I get/glean from this list and feel
sorry for those who don't have access to this resource.
2. Bottom elements. I don't understand why they aren't in ALL electric kilns.
3. Element holders, such as in the L & L's. I've seen photos of chipped
bricks in kilns that don't have them, so I want them.
4. Thickest walls or greatest heat retention, especially the top. I don't
understand why they aren't even thicker than I've seen them. It isn't as
though the price of electricity is going down and I heard one potter here in
California say that it cost $25 blanking dollars to fire his large electric
kiln. That's a lot to pay. Other parts of the country pay less; George
from Illinois said he pays about $8.
5. Ease of repair/replacement for all controls and, especially, the elements.
6. Front loading. Clayarters who've seen me in person can attest to my
being er, vertically challenged (but not, unfortunately, horizontally
challenged). I usually don't notice it until I have to do something like
load a top-loading kiln at school. I'd have to stand on a ladder and would
likely launch my sorry and capacious butt into the darn thing. So I don't do
that part; I do fire-brigade assists.
I'm happy to have any of my pre-conceived notions changed with
incontrovertible evidence, but that's it so far.
All of that said, the kilns I've seen that fill the bill are pricey and
that's what's kept me kiln-free thus far.
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