Lili Krakowski on wed 26 jan 05
Yes, most people want to minimize the amount of clay they need to =
recycle, because it is a boring job to recycle.
If I read you correctly you have a whole lot of clay that NEEDS =
recycling. =20
1. Get an old bathtub, horsetrough or similar. A great big tub no =
higher than your knees.
2, Fill it with water and add your clay. Add about half the volume of =
clay as of water.
3. Go away and leave it alone for a week or so. =20
4. By that time it will have slaked, all you do is lay it out to dry to =
wedging density.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 27 jan 05
I would add one more thing to what Lili has said.
After your clay has slaked for a week Blunge it thoroughly with some
sort of mixer even if you had reduced it to an impalpable powder
before you added the water.
You may find you need more water to accomplish this. Extra water is
needed to bring it to a slop of uniform fluidity. When water is added
to slake the clay settling consolidates clay at the bottom of the
container and water does not circulate through it.
Unless you do this those larger original granules will not take in
sufficient water. As your wedging and kneading or pugging breaks wet
clay crumbs your clay will stiffen. It will not attain its optimum
state of plasticity though it will feel firm.
Why blunge and add more water? Because every fragment of clay, grog
and other filler has to be coated with a uniform layer of water on
every surface. You need that extra water to prevent friction. Friction
makes clay feel stiff when you work it.
Remember that the original manufacturer may have stared with clay
powders milled to less that #200
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Lee Love on thu 27 jan 05
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
>I would add one more thing to what Lili has said.
>After your clay has slaked for a week Blunge it thoroughly with some
>sort of mixer even if you had reduced it to an impalpable powder
>before you added the water.
>
At my teacher's workshop, we layered totally dried out trimming scraps
in a green plastic trough. I imagine these are use to mix up plaster
or some other such thing. We use a plant watering can to wet each
layer. The layers were about 3 or 4 inches thick. Then we would
put down another layer and wet that. We might lay on 8 to 12
layers. Then it would sit for a day, covered with plastic. It
would be ready to put in the pug mill, right out of the box. It was
soft and this lent to it not drying out when it was bagged. It was
pugged again just before we used it. If it was too soft, we let it set
out and dry overnight.
Not sure which way is best. Maybe, without a pugmill, slaking
and blunging and then putting it in a suspended canvas to dry would
work the best.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
primalmommy on thu 27 jan 05
Why in the WORLD would anyone throw away clay? It's not like it's yogurt
past its expiration date. it just keeps getting better with age. I have
a stack of big rubbermaid storage containers out behind my studio full
of a bewildering variety of clay scraps in every shade, groggy and not
so groggy, brown and white, speckled and streaked. I throw it all in
together, wet, right off the wheel.
I have a plaster trough about the right size for axner's clay bags. When
I'm up to my elbows in clay anyway, I scoop a bunch of reclcyle glop
into the trough and leave it there to stiffen up until it will fall out
of the trough when I tip it. I stick it in bags.
it is not perfect clay; it has accepted gifts of pine needles and bits
of this and that, over time, and I occasionally have to pull out
somethign that didn't compost. I occasionally get a pop-out. So I don't
use that clay for fine detailed sculptural work.
Lately, I have been standing the trough-shaped chunk on end and cutting
off thick slices with a wire -- running them through my slab roller --
and them cutting out tiles form the marvelously swirled, marbled mixed
colored clay. I dry them between sheet rock, fire them on end. I will
probably leave them unglazed like quarry tile and use them in my new
sunroom (when the snow is gone and we can finish the roof!) One in ten
tiles cracks or has some weird flaw, but I make a stack of them in an
hour and don't have much invested. I just used a defective one as a tray
for firing all my tiny teapots (still red hot.)
If I throw it, it makes nice agateware. Wedged for a while, it just
becomes a nice plastic middle-toned clay.
Clay is clay. I can't imagine why anyone would throw it away! I even got
a bad batch of white stoneware once that I keep in a seperate drywall
bucket (big rope tied to the handle so I don't forget) and I use it for
paper saggars, or thrown molds a la Dannon Rhudy, or to mix with grass
and chink the cracks in my brick-topped pit kiln.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio, where it's blue and cold and the icicles are hanging from
every eave. Last night I went out to check the chickens, full moon, navy
blue sky -- and saw a little scribble of mouse tracks in the snow coming
out of the little shed where I store the feed. They went a yard or two,
the little tail-drag line between tiny-fingered prints, and then stopped
suddenly -- right at the spot where two long-feathered wings had brushed
the snow like fingertips.
_______________________________________________________________
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Mildred Herot on thu 27 jan 05
I too recycle my clay and even though I do not produce a great deal of
pottery, I find no problem in using the salvage clay again. I put in in a
large plastic can and have a big paint mixer (courtesy of Home Depot)
attached to an old drill and keep that in the bucket as well and mix the
scaps with water and then let it dry out a bit and then transfer the glop to
plaster bats to reach a workable plasticity......Mildred Herot
----- Original Message -----
From: "primalmommy"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Throwing away clay
> Why in the WORLD would anyone throw away clay? It's not like it's yogurt
> past its expiration date. it just keeps getting better with age. I have
> a stack of big rubbermaid storage containers out behind my studio full
> of a bewildering variety of clay scraps in every shade, groggy and not
> so groggy, brown and white, speckled and streaked. I throw it all in
> together, wet, right off the wheel.
>
> I have a plaster trough about the right size for axner's clay bags. When
> I'm up to my elbows in clay anyway, I scoop a bunch of reclcyle glop
> into the trough and leave it there to stiffen up until it will fall out
> of the trough when I tip it. I stick it in bags.
>
> it is not perfect clay; it has accepted gifts of pine needles and bits
> of this and that, over time, and I occasionally have to pull out
> somethign that didn't compost. I occasionally get a pop-out. So I don't
> use that clay for fine detailed sculptural work.
>
> Lately, I have been standing the trough-shaped chunk on end and cutting
> off thick slices with a wire -- running them through my slab roller --
> and them cutting out tiles form the marvelously swirled, marbled mixed
> colored clay. I dry them between sheet rock, fire them on end. I will
> probably leave them unglazed like quarry tile and use them in my new
> sunroom (when the snow is gone and we can finish the roof!) One in ten
> tiles cracks or has some weird flaw, but I make a stack of them in an
> hour and don't have much invested. I just used a defective one as a tray
> for firing all my tiny teapots (still red hot.)
>
> If I throw it, it makes nice agateware. Wedged for a while, it just
> becomes a nice plastic middle-toned clay.
>
> Clay is clay. I can't imagine why anyone would throw it away! I even got
> a bad batch of white stoneware once that I keep in a seperate drywall
> bucket (big rope tied to the handle so I don't forget) and I use it for
> paper saggars, or thrown molds a la Dannon Rhudy, or to mix with grass
> and chink the cracks in my brick-topped pit kiln.
>
>
> Yours
> Kelly in Ohio, where it's blue and cold and the icicles are hanging from
> every eave. Last night I went out to check the chickens, full moon, navy
> blue sky -- and saw a little scribble of mouse tracks in the snow coming
> out of the little shed where I store the feed. They went a yard or two,
> the little tail-drag line between tiny-fingered prints, and then stopped
> suddenly -- right at the spot where two long-feathered wings had brushed
> the snow like fingertips.
>
>
>
>
>
> > style="font-size:13.5px">_______________________________________________________________
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> the FREE email that has everyone talking at > href=http://www.mail2world.com
> target=new>http://www.mail2world.com
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Richard Aerni on thu 27 jan 05
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:42:49 -0800, primalmommy
wrote:
>Why in the WORLD would anyone throw away clay? It's not like it's yogurt
>past its expiration date. it just keeps getting better with age. I have
>a stack of big rubbermaid storage containers out behind my studio full
>of a bewildering variety of clay scraps in every shade, groggy and not
>so groggy, brown and white, speckled and streaked. I throw it all in
>together, wet, right off the wheel.
>Clay is clay. I can't imagine why anyone would throw it away! I even got
>a bad batch of white stoneware once that I keep in a seperate drywall
>bucket (big rope tied to the handle so I don't forget) and I use it for
>paper saggars, or thrown molds a la Dannon Rhudy, or to mix with grass
>and chink the cracks in my brick-topped pit kiln.
Kelly,
And that's exactly why I do throw away clay in my studio. Because I don't
have room for stacks of big rubbermaid storage containers, with bad clay,
clay with pine needles, old orange peels, twist ties, etc. And my budget
doesn't have room for those kind of events, either. I did a time/motion
study some years back and figured that it was costing me far more to try to
keep the clay perfectly clean, then recycle it, than to throw it out and buy
new. In the old days, in my old place, the scrap clay became pond dike
material, etc. In the urban studio, it just costs too much to have "stuff"
around, and stuff includes a bewildering variety of old, somewhat unusable
clay, of all shades, grits, uses.
I also don't have room for a pug mill, clay mixer, etc. Different strokes
for different folks.
One of my studio mates (Clifton Wood, on clayart) does recycle her clay, and
has started recycling mine (that which is reclaimed from the trimming wheel,
with a big box around the wheelhead so it doesn't fall to the floor and get
contaminated), and I figure if she keeps producing at her present rate
(which isn't too fast, nor too slow) she'll never have to buy clay again,
ever. My Xmas present to her was a brand spanking new plaster table, so she
doesn't use our wedging board for the reclaim anymore. She's happy, and I'm
happy that I don't have to mess with it. Yes, clay can be reclaimed, it's
good time after time til it's fired, but sometimes it just doesn't pay. And
I do understand the beauty of total consumption... After all, as Kathy
McDonald has been stating, she's making better pots than she was 10 years
ago, working longer hours, and making less money. In these times, you've
got to pay attention to which parts of your job pay in $$$, and which pay in
emotional satisfaction.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 28 jan 05
Dear Lee Love,
If you have turnings these will create a large spatial volume around
themselves. So there is a large volume of water in contact with a
small volume of clay. Problems arise when there is insufficient water
to penetrate into the fragments.
The quintessence of preparing plastic clay is to ensure a sufficient
volume of water. Your method achieves this. You must produce an
amazing amount of clay scrap to build up a four foot deep heap of
turnings. (layers 4 ins deep x12)
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Dave Finkelnburg on fri 28 jan 05
Dear O.K.,
You are very correct...it's possible to make clay without slaking it. Lots of Soldner mixers and ribbone blenders and lots of other equipment out there making clay with dry powdered clay and the minimum amount of water to achieve a plastic body.
I do believe, though, it misleads people to say making clay by that route really doesn't make any difference. Looking at the microstructure of the fired ware under a microscope it is clear that good mixing of clay body ingredients makes the difference between no failures and some failures. Bloating in porcelains is most commonly caused by poor mixing. If you need to refire ware, well-mixed clay is much more likely to survive a refire than poorly mixed clay. Pre-mixing dry ingredients so the feldspar is coated with clay is also useful.
Regards,
Dave Finkelnburg
playin with dirt wrote:
for plasticity, slaking would be the best method. it hydrates the clay in a
more efficent manner.
thats why wet mixing and filter pressing makes such a great body to work
with.
but i think the difference is ultimately marginal.
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muriel kielar on fri 28 jan 05
In our school I did not have a pug mill nor did I want to make a lot of
dust by breaking up dried clay since my co-teacher, and I'm sure some of
the students, were very bothered by dust. How I recycled the clay was to
give it away to some of the students who wanted to work with it at home.
They were able to slake it and rework it and then bring in what they had
made for firing. There were several aspiring potters who were thrilled to
get some free clay.
Mitzi
playin with dirt on fri 28 jan 05
for plasticity, slaking would be the best method. it hydrates the clay in a
more efficent manner.
thats why wet mixing and filter pressing makes such a great body to work
with.
but i think the difference is ultimately marginal. i've been rehydrating my
clay and pugging it in a manner much like you described lee, and i have also
run industrial filter presses that made 100's of lbs of clay at a time. the
difference is there, but for the scale of what we sorts do, the difference
is not really all that critical.
O.K.
(initials)
the gaijin potter
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 29 jan 05
Dear Lee Love,
Thank you for penning that picture of the situation.
I appreciate what you are saying about the amount of water needed
There is a critical amount below which you do not generate the
plasticity and above which the clay has insufficient strength to stand
alone. I know what you mean about the way a heap of slaked clay will
collapse.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Lee Love on sat 29 jan 05
Richard Aerni wrote:
>And that's exactly why I do throw away clay in my studio. Because I don't
>have room for stacks of big rubbermaid storage containers,
>
Richard, what my teacher uses to store the trimmings in is sacks
that are used to put rice in. Jean is guessing they hold 50kilos of
rice. Of course, the trimmings are less dense and don't weigh as
much. But this is a easier way to store dried trimming rather than
keeping it wet in trash cans. I am using the smaller version of the
rice sacks (I think the are made of rice fiber.)
>I did a time/motion
>study some years back and figured that it was costing me far more to try to
>keep the clay perfectly clean, then recycle it, than to throw it out and buy
>new.
>
>
I think it is more difficult to keep clay clean back home.
There are a couple of big advantages here working on a traditional wheel
platform. Number 1: the platform is enclosed so the trimmings don't
get on the floor where they will get junk in it. And number 2:
you take your shoes off before you get on the platform or put your feet
in the wheel hole. These two things really make keeping the
trimmings clean easier. Also, I am able to put a board on top of my
wheel hole and it keeps the cats from using the trimmings as a cat box.
I started taking my shoes off in my wheel area after my first
visit to Japan in '93. I did most of my throwing in my studio/loft,
that was also my living space. This helped me keep from tracking clay
dust into the living area.
I don't have a pugmill either. Was thinking about getting
one, because I am blending two kinds of Mashiko clay for my glazed work,
and also I am experimenting with adding some smoother white clays to my
Shigaraki clay. I think working will soft clay allows me to do this
without wrecking my body and without needing a pugmill.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Lee Love on sat 29 jan 05
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
>If you have turnings these will create a large spatial volume around
>themselves. So there is a large volume of water in contact with a
>small volume of clay. Problems arise when there is insufficient water
>to penetrate into the fragments.
>
>
It takes time to learn how much water to sprinkle on the
levels. Not enough, and it get dry spots. Too much, and you get
slop. We dug the clay out of the plastic troughs and carried it into
the studio and piled it on wareboards on the floor. Our stacks would
be about chest high, a sort of truncated pyramid shape of clay. If
the clay was too soft, it would not stay in the stack, but the sides
would fall off.
> You must produce an
>amazing amount of clay scrap to build up a four foot deep heap of
>turnings. (layers 4 ins deep x12)
>
It is hard to imagine if you haven't experienced it.
When the dry trimmings are watered, they compress by
about a half or a 3rd. The dry flakes take up much more space than do
the watered clay. We ended up with a tough of clay that is about a
foot to 18 inches tall. We would fill two troughs usually, a larger
and a smaller one. If I remember correctly, it took about 7 of the
large bags of trimmings (that I mentioned previously) to fill both
bins. Any clay that was not trimmings was broken up by placing on a
brick on the edge of the trough/bin, and wacking it with a hammer.
Typically, we would refill the troughs everyday for about 5 days, to
get enough clay to build the hill inside of the studio, next to the pug
mill.
Yes, there is a mountain of clay trimmings at my
teacher's workshop, have been saved in bags for many, many years. The
sun deteriorated many of the old bags, so these trimmings have to be
put in new bags and moved. The mountain of clay trimmings, I am
guessing, would keep me in Mashiko clay for the rest of my life. I
think the trimmings accumulated when my teacher did not have so many
apprentices. While I was there, there was a net reduction to the
trimmings mountain. We did put some sacks on the mountain, but removed
more than we put on it.
My teacher was becoming dissatisfied with the clay maker
while I was there. Shortly after I left, the workshop bought a huge
new deairing pugmill, that has a huge bin to fill, like a Peter Pugger,
only many times larger. I was told my teacher wasn't going to buy his
Mashiko clay any more and just depend on recycling trimmings for his
clay. I was surprised to learn that the apprentices weren't going to
have to recycle the clay like I did.
It is the best clay I have ever used.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
Lee Love on sat 29 jan 05
Dave Finkelnburg wrote:
> I do believe, though, it misleads people to say making clay by that route really doesn't make any difference.
>
Dave,
My teacher is very particular about the quality of his clay. He wouldn't
use this method if it made less than perfect clay. O.K. is just
reporting what he sees here in Japan.γγγ
I wonder if clay made from industrial materials requires more
specialized reclaiming? Could mixed particle size make a clay body more
resilient?
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
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