j e motzkin on thu 27 jan 05
Old refrigerator shelf racks are great for drying tiles.
the tiles are able to dry evenly and quickly as the air
can get under them. Look for them whenever you see an
old fridge heading for the dump. sheetrock works too.
judy
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Janet Starr on sun 28 may 06
Hello,
I am a tile maker and I have been researching all the different ways that
folks use to make flat tiles. I still have more loss than I would like. I
think the problem is probably my clay, but I can't find any substitute that
has the qualities of this one. Imco Stoneware 1-C is a grey midrange
stoneware clay when wet, and is a nice cinnamon color after firing. It is
vitreous at Cone 3, but it has sand in it, no grog. I need a claybody that
is not white because some of the body is exposed in my designs, and I hate
to work with terra cotta color clay in the studio. Does anyone know of any
other clay body with these characteristics?
I use a slab roller and roll directly onto a drywall slab. If the tiles ar=
e
press molded, I release them onto a small piece of drywall. I don't move
them until the next day when I finish the backs. Then I put them on a fres=
h
piece of drywall with cloth and newspaper on top which seems to absorb alot
of water. Then I put them on an open air rack. The plain tiles are rolled
onto drywall, cut and set up all night before I finish the edges and
sandwich them between drywall with weight for a day. Then put on racks for
a day and then into the 'drying cabinet'.
I made a new 'drying cabinet' with open air racks and a dehumidifier. This
speeds up the drying process (after the above mentioned steps). Yet even
after all this fuss, I still get some tiles that warp in ways that are not
from memory because the clay was never bent in the first place.
It's odd, I made some trays (with sides) and dried them really fast and
there was no warping at all. I would appreciate any suggestions. It is
frustrating to have to overmake for every order.
Janet Starr
www.craftsmantiles.com
www.featuretile.com
featuretile@gmail.com
Michael Wendt on sun 28 may 06
Janet,
try wire wedging the clay that you use before you
put it in the slab roller. Even very warp prone
clay responds well to this treatment
See Pottery Making Illustrated March-April
issue for details.
My own experience making flat tile has shown
significant improvement in flatness this way.
I can either slab roll them or if I want just a
few very fast, I throw them on the potter's
wheel.
My explanation for warping is:
uneven moisture content is the engine that
drives warping. Wetter spots need to shrink
more so they curve or ripple the tile during
the drying. When moisture is uniform throughout
the tile, this warping then comes mainly from
one side drying faster than the other.
Beat this problem with wire racks so that both sides
see the same drying history.
Ideally, you would have a series of fans that would
blow room air edgewise over the tile to speed drying
and that would alternately blow from each of the four
directions for the same length of time so that none of
the
edges dried more than the others.
Regards,
about the same
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Janet wrote:
Hello,
I am a tile maker and I have been researching all the
different ways that
folks use to make flat tiles. I still have more loss
than I would like. I
think the problem is probably my clay, but I can't find
any substitute that
has the qualities of this one. Imco Stoneware 1-C is a
grey midrange
stoneware clay when wet, and is a nice cinnamon color
after firing. It is
vitreous at Cone 3, but it has sand in it, no grog. I
need a claybody that
is not white because some of the body is exposed in my
designs, and I hate
to work with terra cotta color clay in the studio.
Does anyone know of any
other clay body with these characteristics?
katetiler on sun 28 may 06
Hi Janet,
there is a very good article in this month's 'Pottery making
Illustrated' by Laura Reutter that is all about making flat tiles,
although from what you have described with your drying rack, you might
find it a similar process.
http://www.potterymaking.org/current.html
should show you the article if you are a member you can log in and
read it, or ask for a copy. (I get this delivered to the UK it is the
BEST magazine ever, ever, ever! Really can't praise it enough & I wish
we had a sensible UK equivalent instead of all the arty farty blinking
stuff we end up with here...but I digress...)
The other question is how are you working your clay before you press
it? If you are using it straight from the bag (which a lot of tile
makers can get away with if they are thumping the tile a lot during
construction...:) then you may be getting problems with uneven
consistency of the clay in the bag, some parts being wetter than others.
Let us know if you solve it, it's good to hear from other tile makers,
even if it is bad news!
love Kate
Pat Logue on mon 29 may 06
Hi Janet
"no grog" jumped out at me. All the clays suitable for tile that I tested
were heavily grogged with at least 2 different sizes of grog. Is your clay
made for sculpture/tile? How thick are the tiles and what size?
I dont think Ill ever completely eliminate warping, but the right clay sure
has minimized it.
I use standard ceramics 547 sculpture clay. I'm pressing 15 inch circles and
slabbing 12x12 squares with relatively little fuss.
Where are you located? What clay companies do you have access to?
Pat Logue
www.kingfisherstudio.com
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marianne kuiper milks on mon 29 may 06
I have a question as well.
I have made a large number of tiles for a 'water wall' for my husband's office and had NO problems with warping to speak of (2 tiles slightly warped). I used Standard 182 with some grog added. The tiles were perhaps1" thick when cut, 6x6 and press-molded. Last month I used the same clay, same grog amt, but the tiles were 4X4" and thicker, perhaps 1 1/2" thick when wet. These were engraved and fired at ^6. I don't remember what cone the others were fired (not in my kiln) but I think at a lower temp.
This last run of tiles was lovely, now adorning an historic cottage in Sussex, England. But they are almost all warped. Not flatness (???) wise, but sideways. meaning: the top may be 4" while one side of the bottom has become 3", looking more like an imaginative version of a trapezoid. Some sort of oid.
Any ideas how I can avoid this next time? Too thick? Too thick for that size? Temp?
Marianne Kuiper Milks
PA
Pat Logue wrote: Hi Janet
"no grog" jumped out at me. All the clays suitable for tile that I tested
were heavily grogged with at least 2 different sizes of grog. Is your clay
made for sculpture/tile? How thick are the tiles and what size?
I dont think Ill ever completely eliminate warping, but the right clay sure
has minimized it.
I use standard ceramics 547 sculpture clay. I'm pressing 15 inch circles and
slabbing 12x12 squares with relatively little fuss.
Where are you located? What clay companies do you have access to?
Pat Logue
www.kingfisherstudio.com
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
______________________________________________________________________________
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Tzadi Turrou on mon 29 may 06
This is coming a bit late, because I really can't get the list to work
right for me. I am a tile maker and specialize in the Arts & Crafts style
also, but I use the cuerda seca technique so I really need just a flat
surface to work with.
I use a terra cotta clay (mostly because I haven't found a good buff
colored groggy alternative in my firing range). I work in low fire
ranges. And my slab roller is an old Brent, which really double rolls
every slab, since it goes back and forth over the slab.
Here's what I do to get a flat tile: Right out of the bag, roll the clay
onto canvas and then pick it up to carry it to a table which has a pressed
wood board on it--the slab is distorted when I lift it. Put the slab onto
the board, then pick it up by both ends and position it over the board to
flip it. Peel the canvas off. Smooth the surface of the clay. Then I use
T-squares to mark the sizes of the tiles I want onto the wet clay. I cut
the excess clay off the sides, but leave the rest of the slab marked, but
uncut.
I then put the slab on the board on the shelves to dry for a while--whole
slab, uncut. I wait until the slab has really gotten quite stiff (a day or
two, depending on conditions in the studio). And finally, I cut the slab
apart, resmooth the top, cut the notches on the back, signature stamp,
etc. And then I lay the tiles onto drywall to finish drying.
I keep an eye on them, but not a close eye. Occasionally, I have to turn a
tile, but that is rare. The larger tiles (like 24" x 13") tend to dry
best. I don't cover them, and sometimes I put them closer to the kiln if I
need to bisque them in a few days.
I can go from rolling out the clay to having a bisque tile in a week. The
secret is not to cut the slab until it's stiff. The weight of the slab
holds the clay down, and when you cut you have more surfaces to warp. Some
of the secret must be in the clay, which is heavily grogged.
Before I discovered that I shouldn't cut the slab, I was doing the usual
stacking on drywall, turning several times, transferring to the wire
shelves, and still getting lots of warping.
And, magically, people are amazed at how flat my handmade tiles are. I
have a table top RAM press which I am thinking about selling, because the
technique I have described works so much better, and there is much less
clay to recycle, for starters.
However, the big question is: If you are using press molds to get your
raised line (cuenca) and having to cut the clay when it's soft, mold it and
remove it, then you're in a whole different game.
Chris Campbell on mon 29 may 06
Part of the 'secret' of flat tiles is to stop
touching them.
Put the clay on a flat board, drop it
from a foot or two off the table ... then
I leave it alone until it is stiffened.
Anything that moves it off horizontal
will result in a warp ... so go do something
else and resist the urge to touch.
Think of huge tile factories producing
thousands of flat tiles per day ... they
stay flat the whole time ... no one turns
them or puts them between sheetrock or
flips them ... they keep them flat the
whole time.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - I know ...
it sounds too easy ... way more fun to screw
around with a complicated process.
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Fine Colored Porcelain since 1989
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Paul Lewing on mon 29 may 06
on 5/29/06 8:31 AM, Chris Campbell at ccpottery@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
> Put the clay on a flat board, drop it
> from a foot or two off the table ... then
> I leave it alone until it is stiffened.
If you do this, the slab must hit the table flat, not at an angle, or it
will put an additional curl into the slab. Think about how you dropped a
book on the floor when you were in 6th grade to make the maximum amount of
noise.
Since this counteracts plastic memory, a friend of mine refers to this
process as "inducing plastic amnesia".
Paul Lewing
Ron Roy on tue 30 may 06
Hi Janet,
I do think the kind of clay you use can help solve the problem - an overall
shrinkage of about 10% for a vitrified body for instance - instead of the
12% shrinkage needed for throwing.
How the slabs are made makes a difference. With a slab roller the inside
clay get compressed and the outside edges get stretched - stretched clay
wants to put together during drying. If some of the clay in a tile is
stretched and some compressed I would expect some warping.
Take a slab from your roller and cut it up into 4" tiles and let them dry
in place - you will see the different ways they distort.
Finding ways to make tiles that are more evenly stretched or compressed
will make the job easier.
RR
>I am a tile maker and I have been researching all the different ways that
>folks use to make flat tiles. I still have more loss than I would like. I
>think the problem is probably my clay, but I can't find any substitute that
>has the qualities of this one. Imco Stoneware 1-C is a grey midrange
>stoneware clay when wet, and is a nice cinnamon color after firing. It is
>vitreous at Cone 3, but it has sand in it, no grog. I need a claybody that
>is not white because some of the body is exposed in my designs, and I hate
>to work with terra cotta color clay in the studio. Does anyone know of any
>other clay body with these characteristics?
>
>I use a slab roller and roll directly onto a drywall slab. If the tiles are
>press molded, I release them onto a small piece of drywall. I don't move
>them until the next day when I finish the backs. Then I put them on a fresh
>piece of drywall with cloth and newspaper on top which seems to absorb alot
>of water. Then I put them on an open air rack. The plain tiles are rolled
>onto drywall, cut and set up all night before I finish the edges and
>sandwich them between drywall with weight for a day. Then put on racks for
>a day and then into the 'drying cabinet'.
>
>I made a new 'drying cabinet' with open air racks and a dehumidifier. This
>speeds up the drying process (after the above mentioned steps). Yet even
>after all this fuss, I still get some tiles that warp in ways that are not
>from memory because the clay was never bent in the first place.
>
>It's odd, I made some trays (with sides) and dried them really fast and
>there was no warping at all. I would appreciate any suggestions. It is
>frustrating to have to overmake for every order.
>
>Janet Starr
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Pat Logue on tue 30 may 06
Hi Marianne
My first inclination here is to blame the clay as well. If i'm not
mistaken(its been so long since I even looked) 182 is a throwing body and
the properties for throwing make it a poor choice for tile regardless of
grog content.
Any particular reason you went that thick?
I guess a good thing to say also, is I stopped trying for perfect tiles a
long time ago. Learn to love those imperfections. reserve judgement until
you have them in place and grouted too. Most times those little things that
bother you will disappear. A lot of times I get to the point that I cant
even look at them any more, I convince myself they are ruined because of
this or that, but once they are installed it all comes together (literally)
you could also try drier clay if youre pressing mechanically.
Im no engineer but I have a hunch too that the corners on a tile sort of
reinforce each other leaving more give, and therefore more shrinkage mid way
between corners.anybody feel free to correct me on that, like I said its
just a hunch.
Pat
www.kingfisherstudio.com
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Rimas VisGirda on tue 8 dec 09
I have pretty good results with keeping tiles flat...
I roll them out a bit thicker than I want using a rolling pin or slab rolle=
r (doesn't seem to matter in the end). I then pound them with a sandbag, I =
see this as randomly realigning the molecules as in demagnatizing a cassett=
e or video tape. I'll then smooth the sandbag marks by either a light roll =
with a rolling pin or scraping with a large flat metal rib. The pounding th=
ins the slabs which is why I make them thicker to start.
I use 2 methods of drying. If the clay is relatively stiff I will lay the t=
iles on a raised fluorescent light screen, 2X4 ft and can be found in the b=
uilder (not lighting) section at Home Depot et al), and let them be until d=
ry. If they are soft enough to take on the grid of the screen then I will l=
ay them on wallboard ware boards and cover with one or two layers of newspa=
per.
-Rimas
Marcia Selsor on tue 8 dec 09
I have flat slabs up to 25 inches with nubs on the back. I dry them
face down, wax the edges 2 inches in from the edge, I put them on
newsprint paper so they don't stick to gypsum board./sheetrock.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
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