pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 9 feb 05
Hi Kristy,
A : ) Why would you want to have a 'Business License'?
B : ) If you are intent on having one, find a Post Office
Box place, or, some Commercial concern, some
'mmini-storage-office' (with whom you may need to rent their
TINIEST little deck drawer of a 'space') who will let you
hang your License on their wall, and recieve Business Mail
'in care of' their address. Then, do your Work at home.
This is actually a common practice, and, even those so
called strip mall 'Mail Boxes R us' or whatever, can be
found which have many so called 'Business Licenses' of
others hanging on their walls...of people doing just that.
C : ) Get a Business License for something you are allowed
to 'do' at home, like say, 'internet consulting' about
Ceramic matters, or 'internet instruction in clay crafts' ,
'Book Searches' or something, then do whatever the hell you
want as an ancillary or incidental or as has nothing TO 'do'
with the 'license'.
D : ) Forget the business license, and do
whateverthehellyouwant...
E : ) See "A", then, moreso, see "D"...
Best wishes,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "kristy"
> I haven't posted anything before, but I was wondering if
anyone out there
> had any advice for me:
>
> I went to get a business license today and everything was
going smoothly
> until I reached the zoning office. The guy told me that I
couldn't get a
> license because I was making the products in my home
studio. He told me
> that the application was only for clerical/administration
work and I could
> only have the license if I made the pottery somewhere
else. I had told him
> that I wasn't going to sell out of my house at all and no
one in the
> neighborhood would be able to detect it (I plan on selling
out of art
> festivals and galleries).
>
> He said he had other artists and crafters come to him, but
for some reason
> we have a stupid law that won't let us work out of our
home. I told him I
> couldn't really afford to rent out studio space right now.
Then he gave me
> a suggestion (bizarre, I think). He said I could try
going to a storage
> place and renting out a space and maybe working there.
What an odd piece
> of advice!
>
> Then after I got home (and ranted a little to my husband)
I started
> wondering: was he giving me some sort of a hint to say
that I just needed
> to give him another address? He seemed to understand that
I wouldn't
> really be causing any trouble (and he honestly seemed
sorry he couldn't
> give me the license). He also gave me his business card
and told me to
> contact him if I had any more ideas.
>
> If all I need is a different address, I thought about
using our other
> residence (a dilapidated house we're hoping to fix up and
rent soon). But
> if I got caught (somehow), I would get in trouble because
I'm not *really*
> using that as a studio. I don't really know what to do
(especially as I
> have already set up my studio in my garage). Is there any
other way to go
> about it? I am really wanting to do things right, but now
I almost wonder
> if I should just forget about getting the license...
>
> --Thankful for any help at all (or just empathy ;)
> Kristy
>
>
____________________________________________________________
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kristy on wed 9 feb 05
I haven't posted anything before, but I was wondering if anyone out there
had any advice for me:
I went to get a business license today and everything was going smoothly
until I reached the zoning office. The guy told me that I couldn't get a
license because I was making the products in my home studio. He told me
that the application was only for clerical/administration work and I could
only have the license if I made the pottery somewhere else. I had told him
that I wasn't going to sell out of my house at all and no one in the
neighborhood would be able to detect it (I plan on selling out of art
festivals and galleries).
He said he had other artists and crafters come to him, but for some reason
we have a stupid law that won't let us work out of our home. I told him I
couldn't really afford to rent out studio space right now. Then he gave me
a suggestion (bizarre, I think). He said I could try going to a storage
place and renting out a space and maybe working there. What an odd piece
of advice!
Then after I got home (and ranted a little to my husband) I started
wondering: was he giving me some sort of a hint to say that I just needed
to give him another address? He seemed to understand that I wouldn't
really be causing any trouble (and he honestly seemed sorry he couldn't
give me the license). He also gave me his business card and told me to
contact him if I had any more ideas.
If all I need is a different address, I thought about using our other
residence (a dilapidated house we're hoping to fix up and rent soon). But
if I got caught (somehow), I would get in trouble because I'm not *really*
using that as a studio. I don't really know what to do (especially as I
have already set up my studio in my garage). Is there any other way to go
about it? I am really wanting to do things right, but now I almost wonder
if I should just forget about getting the license...
--Thankful for any help at all (or just empathy ;)
Kristy
Cindy in SD on thu 10 feb 05
Dear Kristy,
Laws are different in different communities, of course, but as a rule,
it's better not to ask whether you can legally produce pottery (or
whatever) in your home for sale. As long as it's not an annoying or
obvious business (big earth moving equipment parked in the front
yard--big flames belching out the chimney of your reduction kiln),
you'll be fine. As you don't intend to sell from your studio or employ
others, the business license thing most likely doesn't apply to your
situation.
What you probably need is a tax number so that you can collect and remit
sales tax to the city and state, and so that you can purchase materials
for your pottery tax free. When I was ready to get a tax number, I asked
a friend who owned a shop and she gave me a phone number. I called the
guy, and he met me at a coffee shop and helped me fill out the form. I
get a return in the mail several times a year--one page--fill it out and
send in any sales tax to the state. They take care of the city. I don't
actually send them anything, because I only sell wholesale, so it's the
merchants' responsibility to collect the tax. That's all you have to do
here in SD. It may be different where you are. Go to your chamber of
commerce or, better, Small Business Association. They can give you
information. The poor guy you talked to sounds like he hasn't got a clue.
Best of luck,
Cindy in SD
Heather Pedersen on thu 10 feb 05
It has been my expierience that each city makes its own rules as to who,
what, where, and how people get various licences, and sometimes clerks
don't know all the rules. It is entirely possible that if you are
not "doing business" in that city, however they define it, you don't need
one. It's also possible that you need a different application or some
such. I know there are special parts of the code regarding artists working
out of their homes in my city. What city and state are you trying to get
the licence in, if you don't mind my asking? Perhaps they have the code
online somewhere?
-= Heather Pedersen
-= Lone Tree Ceramics
-= www.heatherpedersen.com
Kathy Forer on thu 10 feb 05
On Feb 9, 2005, at 6:26 PM, kristy wrote:
> I don't really know what to do (especially as I
> have already set up my studio in my garage). Is there any other way
> to go
> about it?
I wonder whether you could add an "A" to your address for your garage
space. Or, if there's any numerical room between you and a neighbor,
perhaps you might be able to add an extra address. Accurate enough.
Does "Home Occupation" pertain in your county?Or something like "No
Fixed Place of Business." Though most likely not your county,
http://www.prcity.com/government/departments/commdev/planning/forms-
applications/home-permit.asp might have some useful suggestions. A web
search of "business permit" plus the name of your town or state might
turn up some other information. Or perhaps some under-appreciated
"angles."
Good luck!
Kathy
Lisa Skeen on thu 10 feb 05
I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on tv; however, it appears to me that
where you went wrong was in asking for a business license for your studio
space. I would think that since you're not selling from that space, you
wouldn't need a license - as far as the city is concerned, your place is
just a home studio. No reason you should need a license for that.
My $.02, adjusted for inflation....
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "kristy"
Subject: my city won't give me a business license
> I went to get a business license today and everything was going smoothly
until I reached the zoning office. The guy told me that I couldn't get a
license because I was making the products in my home studio.
John Bandurchin on thu 10 feb 05
Kristy:
Are you certain you need a business licence?
Many people work at home and don't need a licence to do so. If you were a
novelist, you would simply do your work, most likely on your home computer.
I can't imagine anyone telling you a licence is needed for that. An artist
working at home is fundamentally the same. Don't know where you are, but
where we are we don't need a business licence but would be prohibited from
operating certain types of commercial establishments on property that is
zoned only for residential use.
I'm curious who advised you that you need a licence to make pottery in your
home, especially if you don't intend to have a retail outlet there.
John Bandurchin
Baltimore, Ontario Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "kristy"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: my city won't give me a business license
> I haven't posted anything before, but I was wondering if anyone out there
> had any advice for me:
>
> I went to get a business license today and everything was going smoothly
> until I reached the zoning office. The guy told me that I couldn't get a
> license because I was making the products in my home studio. He told me
> that the application was only for clerical/administration work and I could
> only have the license if I made the pottery somewhere else. I had told
him
> that I wasn't going to sell out of my house at all and no one in the
> neighborhood would be able to detect it (I plan on selling out of art
> festivals and galleries).
>
> He said he had other artists and crafters come to him, but for some reason
> we have a stupid law that won't let us work out of our home. I told him I
> couldn't really afford to rent out studio space right now. Then he gave
me
> a suggestion (bizarre, I think). He said I could try going to a storage
> place and renting out a space and maybe working there. What an odd piece
> of advice!
>
> Then after I got home (and ranted a little to my husband) I started
> wondering: was he giving me some sort of a hint to say that I just needed
> to give him another address? He seemed to understand that I wouldn't
> really be causing any trouble (and he honestly seemed sorry he couldn't
> give me the license). He also gave me his business card and told me to
> contact him if I had any more ideas.
>
> If all I need is a different address, I thought about using our other
> residence (a dilapidated house we're hoping to fix up and rent soon). But
> if I got caught (somehow), I would get in trouble because I'm not *really*
> using that as a studio. I don't really know what to do (especially as I
> have already set up my studio in my garage). Is there any other way to go
> about it? I am really wanting to do things right, but now I almost wonder
> if I should just forget about getting the license...
>
> --Thankful for any help at all (or just empathy ;)
> Kristy
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
gan8qj88@juno.com on thu 10 feb 05
Sounds like the place where I live. Commercial areas are the only
place they will give the license to. If you go to a friend that
has a business in the area, gas station, deli, diner, welding, you get
the idea. Ask to use the address for your business address. The
operative word in this is friend who knows you. Then you can try to
apply again.
Yours
Gretch - On a dreary day in a New York suburb!
Snail Scott on thu 10 feb 05
At 06:26 PM 2/9/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>...He said I could try going to a storage
>place and renting out a space and maybe working there...
I actually know people who've done this, or set up in
in apartment complexes with rentable garage spaces.
They didn't live in the apartment complex, they just
rented the garage. Some better U-store-it type places
have electricity, and even a hose hookup on each aisle
for water. It's not crazy, but it's not a great option,
either.
You should call on your city council rep or alderman
whatever your local government equivalent is. Ask them
to sponsor a change in the city code to allow artists
to work at home. Point out that people who work at
home reduce commuter pollution, that businesses with
no noticeable presence outside the house (no visitors,
piles of merchandise, or noise and smells) have no bad
impact on the neighborhood and actually increase
safety by having people home during the day, and that
Your Fair City could be in the forefront of progressive
civic thought by promoting the arts!
Contact local or state arts agencies to see if anyone
else is trying to do this in your area. If they are,
you can help. If they're not, offer to start. If they
have a newsletter, ask whether you could promote the
idea there. Ask if they might be interested in backing
the idea formally, or helping with a petition.
If there are 'loft laws' in your area, see if you can
get the provisions extended to residential-zoned areas.
(Loft laws are a common term for the variances granted
for live/work spaces in industrial-zoned areas. It's
to allow residence in a nominally work-only area. What
you need is the opposite - permission to work in a
residential area.)
In the meantime: since the official you spoke with
seems unlikely to nark you out, just keep working, and
stay on good terms with your neighbors.
-Snail
Bob Masta on thu 10 feb 05
Kristy:
Are you sure you need a business license for what you want to do?
Here (Ann Arbor, MI) you can get an "Assumed Name", also
known to bankers as a "DBA" (Doing Business As) that is all
you need to open bank accounts and otherwise conduct business.
It simply associates your name with the name of the business
for legal purposes. You get the forms for this from the county
clerk.
Hope this helps!
Bob Masta
potsATdaqartaDOTcom
Wes Rolley on thu 10 feb 05
kristy wrote:
> If all I need is a different address, I thought about using our other
> residence (a dilapidated house we're hoping to fix up and rent soon). But
> if I got caught (somehow), I would get in trouble because I'm not *really*
> using that as a studio. I don't really know what to do (especially as I
> have already set up my studio in my garage). Is there any other way to go
> about it? I am really wanting to do things right, but now I almost wonder
> if I should just forget about getting the license...
Local laws have significant silliness at times...no maybe that is the
general rule. But there are some things that one might do, depending on
your inclination for politics and how much of an activist you want to be.
I happen to live in a sub-division that is far enough off of any main
thoroughfare that it takes a map to find my place, though it is only 5
miles from Rte. 101 in California. I have had repeat visitors get lost
trying to find our house. So, my first (and last) open studio really
required the use of maps and signs along the street. Even then half of
my sales came from people in my own sub-division. (500 homes).
So, imagine my surprise when the police came to my house with a sign in
their hand telling me that I had to take them all down. It is against
the law to post any type of sign without a permit. That law, aimed at
the people who indiscriminantly post gun show and RV Sale sign all over
or who don't pick up their signs after birthday parties and garage sales
also prevents an artist from using signs for their open studio.
So, I checked the law and found that realtors can get a permit for
signs, sponsored events like the local farmers market can get a permit
for temporary, on the street signs, but that is all. I ended up writing
a column in the local newspaper in which I accused the City of being
against the Arts and anything creative.
The end result, no signs BUT, when the local arts associations hold
their official Open Studios, we are given space in the Community and
Cultural Center for selling our work.
Now, I have found that there are a number of other concerns for working
in a residential area:
- there are special provisions in the zoning code for "home businesses".
These limit the number of vehicles that would come to the premises
during a day. They also preclude the "use of equipment not customary in
dwellings."
- home businesses that are open to the public need to comply with the
provisions of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). That generally
means having rest room facilities with wheel chair access.
- certain glaze chemicals need to be disposed of by taking them to a
hazardous waste disposal site and paying a fee.
This list only a start.
I have my electric kiln in the garage. If I were to convert that to a
gas/electric per Nils / Mel following the information that Mel published
in Potter Making Illustrated, I would be in violation of fire code and
also my fire insurance would be no good is anything happened.
Local Home Owners Association will not allow a separate building like a
kiln shed, though there is room on my .53 acre lot. They will allow a
cabana / shower / lavatory by a pool, though.
My local city government has made most of the pertinent document
available on line: the general plan for the city and the municipal code
are both easily available, though it is sometimes hard to understand why
they put certain regulations in the sections that they did.
If you want to make an issue of it, it takes time, effort and a bit of
creative thinking, as well as being willing to accept a compromise.
Given the local regulations, making the Community Center available for
Open Studios is such a compromise.
--
Wes Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
"Happiness is to be fully engaged in the activity that you believe in
and, if you are very good at it, well that's a bonus." -- Henry Moore
Michael Wendt on thu 10 feb 05
Kristy,
I can't answer the actual legal question in your instance but here in
Lewiston, Idaho, when I first started, no business license was required
unless I intended to sell to the public.
Check first with the planning and zoning commission to see if you can have
an exemption. I had a zoning hearing when I started to accept retail
customers in my garage behind the house. I needed the approval of the
neighbors to do it and was granted the exemption.
Your home studio would not be very likely to need a license unless you plan
to sell to the public.
The building official told me the license also required an inspection. That
means handicapped access toilet, fire extinguishers, exit and site exit maps
and a multitude of other legal requirements that must be met.
I would not recommend trying to fake this.
Do it at home in the garage as a legal hobby (then sell the output
elsewhere, also legal) or set up a bona fide business either by legal
zoning exemption or at another location and meet all the legal requirements.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Steve Slatin on thu 10 feb 05
I am guessing that the reason you can't get a business
license is you have a 'manufacturing' business and are
located in a residential district -- have you
investigated a variance, to permit you to operate from
your home? In some jurisdictions a variance for a
home business is easy to get.
If residential zoning is the root of your problem it
will probably make using the address of your run down
second property equally problematic. But it seems the
bureaucrat you were dealing with was trying to help.
Why not give him a call, and try our the variance
approach and the idea of using the address of your
second property? Don't be discouraged if he says no,
find out why ... and give him a chance to talk. Most
bureaucrats are happy to give you all the information
you could ever want and more, if you just appear
interested.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
=====
Steve Slatin -- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn
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Kathi LeSueur on thu 10 feb 05
kristy wrote:
>I went to get a business license today and everything was going smoothly
>until I reached the zoning office. The guy told me that I couldn't get a
>license because I was making the products in my home studio.
>
There are communities that don't allow any home based businesses. This
includes giving piano lessons in your home. Others are more
accommadating. It sounds like yours is one that is very rigid. Whatever
you do, dont disobey the laws. It can cause lots of headaches down the road.
If you just want to have a studio at your home with an occassional sale
(say at Christmas), I think you have a shot of getting an exception.
Step one is to get the support of your neighbors. If you've been making
pots for awhile and giving them gifts of your efforts, the task is much
easier. In any case, I would talk to each of my neighbors and explain
exactly what I want to do. Make pots from a home studio and have an
occassional sale. Explain that therewill not be any exterior
alterations to the structure. And that it won't be evident that you are
producing pots there from outside. Explain any safety precautions you
would take with the kiln. And assure them that there won't be increased
traffic from having your studio. If you get a positive feeling from
them, ask them to sign a petition for a "varience" allowing you to have
your homebased business.
Second, most communities have these rules out of fear. They just don't
want to have things get out of hand. I live in a community that is very
welcoming of homebased businesses. The city of Ann Arbor probably has
more gas kilns sitting in back yards and garages than anywhere else.
But, things have to be done right. I would suggest you call the Ann
Arbor, MI zoning department. Explain your situation and that you
understand that Ann Arbor has a more accommadating approach. Ask for a
copy of the zoning laws that pertain to homebased businesses. I have a
friend in another state who did just that and was able to get the
zoning laws changed. It's worth the effort.
And then, go to an "independent insurance agent", one who writes for
lots of companies. One that writes commercial insurance. Ask them to
write a policy that will cover your home, vehicles, and your home based
business. If you just try to have them write a business policy and stay
with a strictly residential writer, like State Farm, for your home, the
business policy will be very expensive. But, if you have them cover all
of your insurance needs the cost is quite reasonable. And, if you ever
have a claim, the insurance agent is working for you, not the company.
Kathi
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