my city won't give me a business license ( three )

updated tue 22 feb 05

pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 12 feb 05

Hi Kristy, all...

Hi Steve,


Quite so...

And or, one does well to find a 'buddy' in some way, any
time one is dealing with a beurocracy or institution, and,
often, or,
sometimes anyway, it can be
done to some degree or other, and one does well to be
gentle, positive, patient, persistant ( ie, keep trying
different offices or people or branches, untill one gets the
answers one can work with) and, to be
alert...for possibilities...be diplomatic, and, to know how
to 'lead a
wittness' in a way...and lead 'em, too.

The slightest hint of negativity is 'dangerous' as for
impedeing progress, while slight allusions to irony, with
humor, especially if
they start them, can be fine...can be a basis for a kind of
bond even.

How to do it? Is not so easy to say, but, letting them talk,
asking them naive positive questions, playing dumb ( as the
saying goes), seeing
if
they are interested TO help you in some way ( ie, to be
interested in some way even in showing off to you how much
they know about their subject or something, which as an
incidental MAY help you),
if they take an
interest somehow, some tie-in or other to their own
emotional values or interests or sympathys or something...as
you (or maybe me) more or
less suggest, are certainly good guidelines.


Let's say someone wants to start a little 'home-business'
glueing little tufts of Cotton onto Acrons to make little
'Santa Claus heads' for next Christmas.

One person, doing this, on the kitchen table, after the
dishes are cleared from supper...a few times a month...to
get a head-start for the Hollidaze for their Church
Sale...and they decide, that
being a good-citizen and all, they shall go forth and get
for themselves...a 'Business License'...

Okay...

Okay, so...they of course are sometimes to be expected to
meet
the requirements of a full bore GM 'Fisher Body' Division
regional
Assembly Plant or something...unless, they ask the
correctly phrased and correctly angled questions...and or
ask them of many different perfunctorates or personages of
various related
offices or however many possible new trys they can manage.

Or, they say...

"Yup, I'm gunna need The Power company to get in a new Sub
Station there for them banks of 440 three-phase
Transformers...and...fer Southern Pacific to run a new Spurr
Line to a hundred yards of elevated Loading dock at my back
door of my Kitchen, so's I can
fill them Box Cars without having to walk so damn much to
get
to 'em...although, to fill one of them 1/100th
of the way, will take me long enough to where our Sun will
have long since gone Super-Nova, and..."

Sigh...

Why bother?

Why not just mind one's own business and let others mind
theirs?

Was that not the 'Motto' of our first ( and at one time,
respectible) Government ( who used to mind theirs?) , and,
the
credo of our (ditto) earnest and able self-managing
Citizens?

That, and, "Don't Tread on Me "...?

Gives me some pause-for-thought, anyway...



Phil
el ve


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Slatin"


> I am guessing that the reason you can't get a business
> license is you have a 'manufacturing' business and are
> located in a residential district -- have you
> investigated a variance, to permit you to operate from
> your home? In some jurisdictions a variance for a
> home business is easy to get.
>
> If residential zoning is the root of your problem it
> will probably make using the address of your run down
> second property equally problematic. But it seems the
> bureaucrat you were dealing with was trying to help.
> Why not give him a call, and try our the variance
> approach and the idea of using the address of your
> second property? Don't be discouraged if he says no,
> find out why ... and give him a chance to talk. Most
> bureaucrats are happy to give you all the information
> you could ever want and more, if you just appear
> interested.
>
> Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
>
> =====
> Steve Slatin -- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn
>
>
>
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Randall . on sun 13 feb 05

>
>Let's say someone wants to start a little 'home-business'
>
>"Yup, I'm gunna need The Power company to get in a new Sub
>Station there for them banks of 440 three-phase
>Transformers...and...fer Southern Pacific to run a new Spurr
>
>Why bother?
>
>Why not just mind one's own business and let others mind
>theirs?
>

Yeah that's how I feel, because the instant you go to "city hall"
asking questions on license, permits or whatever they now have you
and your address "flagged" somewhere in some form! ONCE you open the
can of worms by doing that it's virtually guaranteed it will become a
can of worms you will regret.

I can relate a story when I lived in Oregon, I was looking at
property- 10 acres of land to put a modular home on, it was part of a
farm once and had a barn and a couple of outbuildings, the owner
lived across the road.
As I raised dogs for show, and figured I might run into a problem
some day and didn't want surprises after investing so much into a
parcel, I applied for the required "kennel permit" to keep more than
3 dogs (I was planning maybe 4 or 5, at MOST 6 ever) well the county
planning dept sent out notices to every adjoining property owner
about a "Proposed dog kennel facility". Well wouldn't it figure some
lady didn't read the details about my plans and started a petition
against this "Commercial dog kennel" and went door to door to gather
signatures!

My application was going to take a court hearing now, so I got the
names of those the letters were sent to and wrote every one of the
dozen or so people- the nearest neighbor was over 600 feet away... I
offered to visit with one of the dogs to show them this wasn't a
pitbull or something, and not one even responded.
So I wound up looking elsewhere rather than bothering with that
further. The land was a working farm for crying out loud, it wasn't
a case of a city lot or something!

Had I kept my trap SHUT, all would have been perfectly fine but I
only screwed myself up by following the rules and trying to do the
right thing, in the end as long as you keep low key, don't tell the
neighbors you are running a business, you should be fine. My policy
is do nothing till someone at the city, county, state level knocks at
the door to say something, then you say you had no idea- better to
ask forgiveness than permission!
Sure they can fine you maybe, but the fine would be a lot less of a
headache in my opinion.

Randall

Steve Slatin on sat 19 feb 05

Kristy --

You will probably need a state license to collect
sales tax and so on, if your state does that. You can
generally file Federal income taxes and take
appropriate business-related deductions without a
state license, but if you live in a state with income
tax they may require a business license number for
that.

So ... if you're doing all your sales in a
no-sales-tax state, and you don't need to take
business-related deductions on state income tax,
you're probably OK.

One last thing -- if you need a state business license
for sales tax or state tax, identify your business as
"Sale of handicrafts at occasional vendor sites" or
something like that (which accurately describes one
aspect of your business) and once you have that
license you can use the license number to take care of
everything you need.

Best wishes -- Steve Slatin

--- kristy wrote:

> I really wanted a license so I could get a business
> checking account in
> order to take credit cards, but I found a company
> that will use my personal
> checking account (and yes, it's a reputable
> company). I also wanted to be
> able to get tax deductions for my supplies,
> equipment, etc. Is that still
> possible without a license?


=====
Steve Slatin -- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn



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kristy on sat 19 feb 05

Wow, thanks to everyone for all of their input! This was by far the most
helpful and informative group (not to mention humorous) I've asked about
the business license.

I'm tending to agree with Randall and Phil. Maybe I'll just keep my mouth
shut about it. My city wants me to get a license if I do business in the
city, but I'm not really selling *in* this city (except for maybe the
occasional yearly art show). So maybe I don't need one. In my childish
ignorance to do everything according to the rules, I learned a lesson in
government: it's usually best to keep quiet and avoid them whenever
possible. They require you to do something, but they won't let you, and
you need to either quietly break the rules or reword what your calling it.
Hmmm...sounds more like a lawyer's playground than a potter's...

I really wanted a license so I could get a business checking account in
order to take credit cards, but I found a company that will use my personal
checking account (and yes, it's a reputable company). I also wanted to be
able to get tax deductions for my supplies, equipment, etc. Is that still
possible without a license?

Thanks to all for their input -- it was much appreciated!!!

--Kristy,
running her illegal pottery studio in her garage

John Rodgers on sun 20 feb 05

Hi Kristy!

kristy wrote:

>They require you to do something, but they won't let you, and
>you need to either quietly break the rules or reword what your calling it.
>
>
Some years ago a friend of mine had cancer and lost here hair due to
chemotherapy. Her insurance company dis-allowed her claim for "wigs"
and refused to pay for them. Claimed wigs were cosmetic, not medically
necessary, and they only paid for things prescribed by her doctors. She
complained virgorously to her doctor - a lady doctor - who said "We will
show them!" where upon she promptly prescribed three "Cranial
Prostheses" for my friend, whose insurance company then paid without
blinking an eye or raising an eyebrow.

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

>I really wanted a license so I could get a business checking account in
>order to take credit cards, but I found a company that will use my personal
>checking account (and yes, it's a reputable company).
>
Not a good idea for tax purposes. Though it is done, IRS frowns on
mixing personal checking with business. If you can't get the business
account the next best thing is to open a second personal checking
account, and it would be even better if you opened it in another bank.

>I also wanted to be
>able to get tax deductions for my supplies, equipment, etc. Is that still
>possible without a license?
>
>
Yes, all you need do is file with your tax return a from Schedule C -
Itemized deductions. Be advised that filing a Schedule C tax return will
raise you up on the IRS list of potential audits. But if you have
everything in order, and all your receipts, you should have no problems.

Regards,

John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL

wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on sun 20 feb 05

Kristy:
Even if you don't have a business license, there is no reason your
bank won't start a business checking account for you. Talk to your
tax professional. You should still be able to utilize some if not
all of the deductions. The business license only makes you legal to
the city you're in, it doesn't affect your tax status or banking.

The city wants what the city wants, and everyone else wants what
they want. No one is looking out for you except you.

Best,
Wayne Seidl

I really wanted a license so I could get a business checking account
in
order to take credit cards, but I found a company that will use my
personal
checking account (and yes, it's a reputable company). I also wanted
to be
able to get tax deductions for my supplies, equipment, etc. Is that
still
possible without a license?

Thanks to all for their input -- it was much appreciated!!!

--Kristy,
running her illegal pottery studio in her garage

Steve Slatin on sun 20 feb 05

Wayne --

Some banks will only open a business account if you
show a state business license. Both my banks required
it. Other than that, I couldn't agree more with what
you said.

-- Steve S.

--- wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:

> Kristy:
> Even if you don't have a business license, there is
> no reason your
> bank won't start a business checking account for
> you.

=====
Steve Slatin -- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn



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Ben on sun 20 feb 05

What you need for the bank is a fictitious business name registration issued
by the state you're doing business in. Try the county recorders office.

Take care,
Ben


bank won't start a business checking account for you. >




in
order to take credit cards, but I found a company that will use my
personal
checking account (and yes, it's a reputable company). >