Kathy McDonald on fri 4 mar 05
Pots.(Long but on-topic)
I I have been following this thread with some interest. I love
the timeless glazes and forms. I appreciate the newer more contemporary
work and am in awe of some of the processes used to create it.
Tony said:
"I would ban temmoku from the students. For one thing their forms
aren't good
>enough and no one I ever knew could make a living off this glaze. They
>might get to glaze one piece if they made it especially for temmoku.
>Temmoku known as being a potters glaze is one of the most difficult glazes
>in the studio. As I know it, temmoku is a simple black dress and the beauty
>has to be in the form.
>I'd also ban celedon- another very hard glaze to use."
Then Liz said>>>>>>>
>
"Maybe your student's forms would improve, if they HAD to use
tenmoku
on a few pieces. Maybe they would learn how to glaze more carefully,
learning to gauge the thickness of the glaze, and how a glaze can
travel or drip if not applied carefully.
Another thing. Maybe tenmokus and celadons would sell to the general
public, if more of it was out there. How does one get it out there,
by having potters USE it."
I tend to agree with Liz.
I guess the question I have is............ aren't we all students?
Many of us call ourselves educators
and teachers, but from time to time we need to consider ourselves students.
Are we ever really the practically perfect potter?....I will never know
all there is to
know about ceramics...thats why I love it. I'm intense, I'm easily bored,
sometimes easily entertained.............
and I seek new things constantly. Clay and pots and glazes do it for
me..they keep me a student.
I dislike the arbitrary power implication that student/teacher has.
(OK OK,,,,I'm a cranky mental_paw_sal woman)
Teachers have knowledge to share
and I'm sure you are a great teacher Tony..if I am your student I want it
ALL!
Including the tenmoku's and the celadons.
If I went to a workshop the teacher said...
Kathy you are NOT allowed to use that glaze over
in the corner at all because
you are a student. I would spit nails ,give them a
middle finger salute, and walk out the door.
If that same teacher said,,,,,,
Kathy ..that glaze is difficult to use well,
needs a special kind of form to make
it sing Showed me some examples...then helped me
get to where my forms were worthy of the glaze
I would work my butt off to get there.
I guess I will always want to be the perennial student.
and my goal is to make timeless pots.,,,,ones that won't
get tucked at the back of the cupboard after a few uses
or 6 months on a coffee table.
Regards,
Kathy
T
>
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 4 mar 05
Pots.(Long but on-topic)
Hi Kathy, Toni, Liz, all...
Maybe, like the Old Time Religion had been...
Students' forms should not BE Fired, untill those forms are
sufficiently reliable and accomplished for such glazes TO go
on them...
Are Students patronized to make junk? Just for their
tuition? Just to pay so called 'teachers'? Just to see that
light in their eyes of themn holding some aweful clunky
thing to go show mom-and-dad? for this, they, or their
parents, pay a few hundred bucks or something?
Are they to be condescended to and pandered to by letting
them glaze and fire junk to bring home and show their even
more easily pleased and more gullible peers and others?
Under the pretext of them 'learning'? Those little 'rewards'
which are sneered about or derided behind their backs then?
after one gets their dough?
Is that the job?
Or...?
Or for them to be guided or watched over TO learn to throw
FIRST and foremost, first AND foremost...then, later, to
begin 'keeping' a very FEW things that were or are in fact,
the several month's worth of the best OF, the three or four
Best Of, what was consistantly 'good enough' TO glaze and
fire...?
I am no 'teacher', but if I were, I would not let anyone
'keep' anything for a long time.
I would be sure TO see that they understand that that IS the
lesson here - to learn to Throw...and not to be pandered to
like idiots who need little crude baubles to bring home and
get distraced about as IF they had accomplished something
that was 'done'...the steps onm the way do not need to be
comemmorated for ever in the fire, nor should they be.
I would certainly NOT let anyone Glaze anything for an even
longer time.
I would let some things get fired with no Glaze,
eventually...and then, later, some things Glazed and fired.
Maybe, after a year, or a six month or a ten month, or a
fifteen month, or whatever it may be for someone
individually, when, WHEN they have become a competant-enough
Thrower and maker OF elusively 'good' forms.
Then, THEN...they should be allowed to make a glaze for
themselves...and NEVER would I have 'class glazes'....less
so to then distinguish such 'glazes' from the 'good
glazes'...
Class assignments, maybe, as for students to have guidelines
FOR making their "own" glazes, their own personal Glazes I
mean...I would do...
I would not be there to patronize them by watching them
make, for others to fire, stuff I then say, was 'not good
enough' for good glazes.
I hate 'schools'...of every kind...
And this IS something of 'why'...
First coffee, up too early after a long night...and maybe I
too should be patronizeing instead of frank?
No, I should not...
Love,
And now for that second Cup-o'-Joe...!
And maybe move on to some new thing to be grumpy about,
too...!
Lol...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy McDonald"
> I I have been following this thread with some interest. I
love
> the timeless glazes and forms. I appreciate the newer
more contemporary
> work and am in awe of some of the processes used to create
it.
>
> Tony said:
>
> "I would ban temmoku from the students. For one
thing their forms
> aren't good
> >enough and no one I ever knew could make a living off
this glaze. They
> >might get to glaze one piece if they made it especially
for temmoku.
> >Temmoku known as being a potters glaze is one of the most
difficult glazes
> >in the studio. As I know it, temmoku is a simple black
dress and the beauty
> >has to be in the form.
> >I'd also ban celedon- another very hard glaze to use."
Carl D Cravens on sun 6 mar 05
Pots.(Long but on-topic)
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
> Maybe, after a year, or a six month or a ten month, or a
> fifteen month, or whatever it may be for someone
> individually, when, WHEN they have become a competant-enough
> Thrower and maker OF elusively 'good' forms.
And would you, a beginner in clay, sit through six months, ten months, or
even fifteen months of being told, "That's not good enough. Do it again."
Who pays good money to have their ego stomped on?
If we were talking an apprenticeship, for the purpose of mastering a
trade, that might be different. But today, one enters a craft or an art
for the purpose of and love of _creating_. Not just practicing endlessly,
until someone finally tells you that your work measures up to a standard,
and _then_ be allowed to really create. To spend months throwing pots I
know aren't going to measure up, aren't going to be kept by _someone
else's_ decision... and you think I'd put my heart into these pots, just
to please _you_, so that I might progress to the next level at your whim?
I'd take my money elsewhere, thank you.
The first pot I kept is rather dumpy, glazed in cobalt blue. I dump my
pocket change in it at the end of every day. I didn't take it around and
show it to everyone... I knew it was far from perfect. But it's a marker
of progress. When I look at it, I can see how my skills have progressed.
The few pots I have are like a sketch book of beginning drawings...
they're not something I share with others (except to make an example of my
beginnings), they're there to remind me of where I've been, and someday,
of how far I've come.
> I hate 'schools'...of every kind...
>
> And this IS something of 'why'...
Because some schools realize their students are human and don't want to
spend months just practicing, striving to please the teacher?
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Wichita, KS
Read my Pottery Journal: http://raven.phoenyx.net/pots/
Madness takes its toll...please have exact change.
Anne Webb on mon 14 mar 05
Pots.(Long
I can certainly understand your frustration, Tony but
When you are a student it is the best time to play around with those more
"difficult" glazes.. Tenmoku requires that one have a certain finesse with
form and design. This is evident when you look at, say, Ron's elegant
dinnerware sets and platters. Impeccable.
Sometimes using or trying something that is beyond your skill level can be a
humbling eye-opening experience and can be a time for introspection (for
those who really want to learn). Too many students just want to make pots
....not necessarily good pots. Many probably wouldnt know a good pot if
they fell over them. A zippy glaze can sure kick a mediocre to bad pot up a
few notches, but when it comes right down to it, its still a mediocre pot.
I think working with tenmokus and celedons would be a perfect exercise to
work on form and design. ..good pots and good art.
wax on, wax off
Have fun at NCECA! Wish i could be there. maybe new orleans in 2007 :)
anne
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