Mike Gordon on tue 22 mar 05
Stefanie,
First of all - how much space is there between the kiln wall and the
shed wall? A hood and chimney through the roof would definitely help.
You could also open a 6" space between the roof and the walls or raise
the roof 6" this would let out a lot of heat without letting in too
much weather. You could also remove the front of the shed and extend it
out about 4 feet and fill in the gap with more corrugated metal on the
sides and make a slant type roof to cover it. But leave it open, so
that one side is completely open for air to circulate. My kiln shed has
both a hood and only three sides and works very well, but I live in
sunny California where it is presently a very liquid sunshine. Mike
Gordon
On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:38 PM, Stefanie wrote:
>
> Here's the scenario: We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x 10 to house
> our
> Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in Michigan, where we need a shed
> with
> four sides & roof to block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should
> have
> gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets impossibly hot when
> firing.
>
> -Stefanie
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 22 mar 05
Hi Stefanie
...put any old Fan on the end of a several-foot length of 12
or 14 or 16 or 18 inch diameter, or square thin-wall metal
pipeing or tube or conduit or a 30 gallon drum with the ends
cut off...and the Fan will no longer get too hot...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefanie"
<<<<<<<<<<<< snip >>>>>>>>>>>
> My husband initially designed a clever system using a fan
on the back wall
> of the shed, which worked like a charm until the fan
stopped working due to
> the heat. Now he's searching for fans that withstand
heat - unfortunately,
> these things cost more than the shed cost ($500+). I'd
love to have help
> before we sink more money into this already expensive
project.
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
> -Stefanie
Donald G. Goldsobel on tue 22 mar 05
The amount of heat generated will drive a turbine fan such as those used to
ventilate the attic. No motor-only a device that keeps it from running too
fast. The ideal shed design has sliding doors on all sides so there is as
much ventilation as needed and you can open the door that is away from the
wind.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefanie"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:38 PM
Subject: Gas Kiln Shed - Help! (long)
> Hello! This is my first post - I've combed the archives for an answer to
> my questions and haven't had any success, so I thought I'd ask for help
> directly.
>
> Here's the scenario: We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x 10 to house our
> Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in Michigan, where we need a shed
> with
> four sides & roof to block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should have
> gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets impossibly hot when
> firing.
>
> My husband initially designed a clever system using a fan on the back wall
> of the shed, which worked like a charm until the fan stopped working due
> to
> the heat. Now he's searching for fans that withstand heat -
> unfortunately,
> these things cost more than the shed cost ($500+). I'd love to have help
> before we sink more money into this already expensive project.
>
> My husband is CONVINCED that a passive system will not work to remove the
> hot air and fumes from the shed - a heating & cooling person agreed with
> his assessment. However, this seems contrary to most (if not all) of the
> posts on this site dealing with kiln ventilation.
>
> Here are the questions:
>
> Is there a way to passively vent a SMALL metal shed for gas firing? If
> so,
> how? We need to keep out the rain/snow. Would simply cutting a big hole
> in the top of the shed work, or should we build a metal cone "hood" with
> vent stack - does this need some sort of fan or doesn't it?
>
> Does anyone out there have a passive (or non-passive) system in a small
> shed? If so, would you be willing to share with me how you've done it?
>
> Is there anyone in Michigan who fires with an Olympic gas kiln who would
> contact me off-list to offer advice about the kiln shed set-up?
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
> -Stefanie
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
URL Krueger on tue 22 mar 05
On Tuesday 22 March 2005 02:38 pm, Stefanie wrote:
> We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x
> 10 to house our Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in
> Michigan, where we need a shed with four sides & roof to
> block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should have
> gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets
> impossibly hot when firing.
Stefanie,
Simple approach might be to cut and hinge doors in the roof
over the kiln so that when you fire you open the doors and
let the heat escape. A few dollars spent on hinges and
latches would be all that was necessary.
Another, more complicated approach would be to follow the
example of amateur astronomers who need to open their
observatories to the sky. I have seen examples where they
built tracks along the side and off the end of a building.
When they want to observe the sky they just roll the whole
roof out of the way. I have also seen examples where they
have hinged each side of the roof and open it up like you
would a cardboard box. I bet if you searched the net for
amateur observatories you would be able to find drawings or
pictures of these approaches.
Good luck.
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Stefanie on tue 22 mar 05
Hello! This is my first post - I've combed the archives for an answer to
my questions and haven't had any success, so I thought I'd ask for help
directly.
Here's the scenario: We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x 10 to house our
Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in Michigan, where we need a shed with
four sides & roof to block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should have
gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets impossibly hot when
firing.
My husband initially designed a clever system using a fan on the back wall
of the shed, which worked like a charm until the fan stopped working due to
the heat. Now he's searching for fans that withstand heat - unfortunately,
these things cost more than the shed cost ($500+). I'd love to have help
before we sink more money into this already expensive project.
My husband is CONVINCED that a passive system will not work to remove the
hot air and fumes from the shed - a heating & cooling person agreed with
his assessment. However, this seems contrary to most (if not all) of the
posts on this site dealing with kiln ventilation.
Here are the questions:
Is there a way to passively vent a SMALL metal shed for gas firing? If so,
how? We need to keep out the rain/snow. Would simply cutting a big hole
in the top of the shed work, or should we build a metal cone "hood" with
vent stack - does this need some sort of fan or doesn't it?
Does anyone out there have a passive (or non-passive) system in a small
shed? If so, would you be willing to share with me how you've done it?
Is there anyone in Michigan who fires with an Olympic gas kiln who would
contact me off-list to offer advice about the kiln shed set-up?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
-Stefanie
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on wed 23 mar 05
When i lived in Miami i had one of those updraft kilns.. I had a shed ,came
with the house. I cut a hole and built a cone arrangment that i put on the
kiln when i was firing, After the firing id put a cover over the shed,, What a
pain,, When i fired that kiln id have reduction on one side of the pot and
oxidation on the other side of the pot..
Im trying to be nice about those kilns that are made like a electric kiln
than made into a gas kiln.. They plain out suck, its a way for the kiln company
to make more money,, You are much better of firing electric. There are
awesome glazes recipes out there and using a clay you like you can get great
results
When i was in Miami used a clay that Miami Clay made for me. Its Marks Body
#10, It is dark with specks. Lots of Manganese for color and specks.. Bad
fumes when doing bisque
I was able to get my Alpine for free,, just had to move it.. Recently i got
another Alpine,, I had a kiln shed built , all metal , nice concrete slab,,
$3000 for the kiln shed,,
Making pottery aint cheap
Save the money to buy a Geil, Bailey, Alpine, Olsen, Start a Guild if you
cant fire a kiln at home.. Where there is a will there is a way,, Me , i moved
to place that has NO zoning i can build any thing here. My Gas company is
great.
Those kilns really irk me, and im tring to me nice, i even had issues on the
RAKU kiln at a place i did a workshop.
Mark
_www.lookoutmountainpottery.com_ (http://www.lookoutmountainpottery.com)
Unrouted Mail on wed 23 mar 05
> Im trying to be nice about those kilns that are made like a electric kiln
> than made into a gas kiln.. They plain out suck, its a way for the kiln
company
> to make more money,, You are much better of firing electric. There are
I also had an Olympic Updraft kiln bout' 10-12 years ago. Personally I think
they are a fine starter gas kiln, contrary to what Mark says. They are a bit
tricky to fire at first but once you get the hang of it you can get
perfectly acceptable results. I fired copper reds and celadons in mine.
About that shed of yours. I also fired in a outdoor metal garden shed. I
think that it was as small as yours as smaller. I didn't have much room to
move about in there.
When you say the shed gets hot - how hot is hot? I know that my shed got
fairly hot but not enough to really hurt if you put your hand on it. I would
say over the 2 years or so that it took me to outgrow that kiln I fired it
at least 5 or more times a month. So out of a 100 or more firings I never
had any problems with the shed.
For a vent I merely used a sheet of tin. Cut a large section out of the roof
at least 1' 6" x 1'6". Using some brackets ( approx. 3" U shaped ) from home
depot I attached the brackets with sheet metal screws and mounted a metal
screen around the brackets. Then simply mounted the entire cap if you will
over the hole on the roof. The cap of I remember was larger than the hole by
a 3"-4". Worked very well for me.
> Those kilns really irk me, and im tring to me nice, i even had issues on
the
> RAKU kiln at a place i did a workshop.
Mark an updraft kiln is an updraft kiln. Doesn't matter if it has Geil,
Olson, etc. stamped on it. Perhaps your location; windy, technique,
patience, etc. all played a part in your disillusionment with this type of
kiln set-up.
I think it is unfair to say it is a CASH GRAB kiln. Sounds kinda paranoid to
me ;) It's an updraft kiln.
I really think it is a GREAT starter kiln for someone. Especially if they
are perhaps not ready to put out $5000-$10000 for a downdraft. It is easily
moved, etc.
The number one thing that saved me with that kiln is that I permanently
mounted my baffle plate to the lid. I was tired of trying to find the right
combination of posts etc. to get the plate mounted 2" from the exit flue.
Anyways whoever asked this question check the archives a bit more if Mark
has you all disappointed with your kiln. You can have great success with
this kiln until you outgrow it. If you don't ever outgrow it then even
better that you saved yourself a chunk of money - especially if you can't
afford it.
Good luck and have fun,
Rod
Kathi LeSueur on wed 23 mar 05
Stefanie wrote:
>....We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x 10 to house our
>Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in Michigan, where we need a shed with
>four sides & roof to block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should have
>gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets impossibly hot when
>firing.........
>
>Is there a way to passively vent a SMALL metal shed for gas firing
>
Go to W.W. Grainger and purchase a roof turbine ventilator, No.4c850.
Perhaps two, one for each side of the peak. It takes very little wind to
move them and they will spin even without wind when there is heat
present. You need both the turbine and the base. Install the base on the
roof and attach the turbine to it. Eventually the bearing on the turbine
will deteriorate and then you'll need to replace the turbine but the
base will not need to be replaced.
Kathi
Earl Brunner on wed 23 mar 05
If it's one of those prefab metal sheds that you spend a day or so putting
together and end up with blisters on your fingers, then I used one of them
for my kiln for almost 10 years. I think mine was a 10x10 though, but it
might have been an 8x8. Anyway I made it taller by using cinder blocks
around the bottom. The roof panels overlap, I just left some of the screws
out of a panel or two and slid them out when firing. I would slid them back
in when done.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:38 PM, Stefanie wrote:
>
> Here's the scenario: We purchased a SMALL metal shed 8 x 10 to house
> our
> Olympic gas kiln (propane). We live in Michigan, where we need a shed
> with
> four sides & roof to block wind & weather. In retrospect, we should
> have
> gotten a bigger shed, but we didn't & the shed gets impossibly hot when
> firing.
>
> -Stefanie
Pfeiffer, Dan R (Dan) on wed 23 mar 05
>>
The number one thing that saved me with that kiln is that I permanently
mounted my baffle plate to the lid. I was tired of trying to find the right
combination of posts etc. to get the plate mounted 2" from the exit flue.
<<
How did you do this? sounds like a great idea!
Dan & Laurel
Claire Beck on wed 23 mar 05
Stephanie--Faced with big shed problems and small income, I put my small
shed on small wheels; the door is separate panels that are easily moved. I
simply push it out of the way during firing. This is not, I know, an ideal
solution. However, thanks to all the good advice I got from folk here, it
works pretty well. Good luck!
--Claire
Craig Clark on wed 23 mar 05
Stefanie, I don't know if this will work, but the best passive type of
ventilaiton system that I know of for buildings (attics in our case) is
a "ridge vent." This is simply a raised vent at the peak of the roof
which runs the entire length of the ridge.This serves as the "exhaust."
The cool air "intake" is sourced either through very large open
louver type openings at each end of the attic which are designed to
blend into the house, "soffet vents" which are small rectangular shaped
vents that are spaced every several feet or so along the soffets of the
house, or a combination of the two. I'm going so far as to put small
"birds beak" type of vents between the rafters on each side of this old
house. The more air flow the better!
You would most likely need to fabricate a ridge vent for you
building. You could possibly do this with some sheet metal. Also, how
tall is your building? Is it possible to raise it up a few inches all
the way around at the base and still keep it sealed well enough for the
wind and snow? This may provide enough air flow combined with some type
of cieling vent.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn CLark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Vince Pitelka on wed 23 mar 05
Stefanie -
You might be overlooking the most obvious solution. Your previous fan burnt
out because it was exhausting hot air. So, put some good-sized vent
openings at one end of the upper walls of the shed, and put a large wall fan
into the upper opposite wall, blowing cool air INTO the shed. That should
do it, as long as there aren't any open doors or windows.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
S. Meisel on thu 24 mar 05
Thanks to everyone for the responses to my post! I really appreciate the
willingness to share ideas. We can't wait to have some free time to
explore some of these suggestions!
Thanks again!
-Stefanie
| |
|
