David Hendley on sun 27 mar 05
Designing a piece with plans for trimming the inside seems like a terrible
idea.
It just makes sense to trim the outside, not the inside of a bowl, if for no
other
reason than the trimmings collect in the bowl and foul up the trimming
process.
That said, I will certainly trim a mis-shape or poor curve on the inside of
a bowl
if I inadvertently threw it poorly. I will also trim the transition from the
shoulder
to the neck of a bottle, if it needs it.
These are definitely mistakes, poor practice, and time wasting steps, but
I'm
not worried about the Pottery Police arresting me for tweaking a form with
this un-planned-for trimming. Whatever works if it improves the form.
David Hendley
I don't know nothin' but the blues, cobalt that is.
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I am curious to know how many potters do that. I often times will trim on
> the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the inside shape. I also
> throw
> with the inside shape in mind. Is there any other interesting approaches
> out
> there?
Antoinette Badenhorst on sun 27 mar 05
So Bill do you see it as wrong to trim on the inside of a piece?
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of william =
schran
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 6:07 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing from- and trimming on the inside of a bowl.
Antoinette wrote:>I am curious to know how many potters do that. I
often times will trim on
the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the inside shape. I also =
throw
with the inside shape in mind.<
This is what I do, this is what I teach - The inside of a thrown form
dictates what the outside shape will be.
I see this as common sense - we try to achieve an even wall/bottom
thickness through out the entire pot.
I never trim the inside of a pot. I make the decision of what the
shape of the pot will be when I first throw it.
That's my two cents, Bill
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Antoinette Badenhorst on sun 27 mar 05
I am curious to know how many potters do that. I often times will trim =
on
the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the inside shape. I also =
throw
with the inside shape in mind. Is there any other interesting approaches =
out
there?
=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
www.clayandcanvas.com
=20
william schran on sun 27 mar 05
Antoinette wrote:>I am curious to know how many potters do that. I
often times will trim on
the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the inside shape. I also throw
with the inside shape in mind.<
This is what I do, this is what I teach - The inside of a thrown form
dictates what the outside shape will be.
I see this as common sense - we try to achieve an even wall/bottom
thickness through out the entire pot.
I never trim the inside of a pot. I make the decision of what the
shape of the pot will be when I first throw it.
That's my two cents, Bill
Steve Slatin on sun 27 mar 05
I trim the insides to reveal the contrast in marbled
pieces. Otherwise, all you get is a sort of muddy
mixed color. (Maybe I use too much slip in throwing.)
-- Steve Slatin
--- Antoinette Badenhorst
wrote:
> I am curious to know how many potters do that. I
> often times will trim on
> the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the
> inside shape.
Steve Slatin -- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn
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Cindy in SD on wed 30 mar 05
Antoiinette,
As wiser heads than mine have said, there's nothing wrong with trimming
the inside of the bowl--just unnecessary. I encourage you to try a
variety of ribs. They take a little getting used to, but you'll soon be
able to control the inside contour of your bowl easily. If you like
perfectly round medium-sized bowls, unwanted CD's work well and are a
lot of fun to use. Mostly, flared bowls are more practical (better
stacking qualities), but it's fun to work on getting that perfectly
round profile.
Have fun,
Cindy in SD
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 30 mar 05
Short rambly overview...dry-as-a-bone, too in a textbook
kind o' way...wherein -
A piece should be thrown with the intention of it having a
correct and progressive wall thicknesses for itself,
accordoing to, and at
various portions of, it's scale and form.
The interior should be thrown with this in mind, with the
finished form in mind, of course, and for it (the interior)
to
require no further attentions.
Readily visible interiors of Work thrown from a wedging or
melding of contrasting Clay colors, would of course need
some sharp ribbing or scraping to remove the fine blurr and
slurry which would lessen the drama of the contrasting
whirls of the different Clay's colors. But this would not be
'Trimming' so much as just removeing a very thiin layer
uniformly in the whole of the to-be visible interior.
The outside should be thrown anticipating that the inside
will be the reference for it's final, Trimmed, of outside
shape, less the deference for how the walls should gradually
thicken toward the base, since the
walls and their thickness are intimate with the integrity of
the piece esthetically as well as practically; remembering
that in essense, the 'walls' of a Pot, are the 'Pot'.
Walls generally should become thinner as the form ascends,
and or plays outward,
or, tapering, are thickest at the bottom.
If one go about trimming the inside and then the outside,
or trims the outside then the inside, one best make sure one
is not compromiseing
the attention or deference to that criteria for trying
merely to find an outer
appearence where the walls then may not happen to progress
correctly in their thickness, may not have the correct
thickness in a progressive way or at the right places, or,
are taking a back seat to mere outer appearances, where the
integrity of the Pot's engineering at least, will be
compromised.
Thats my overview...
Lub,
Phil
el ve
Antoinette Badenhorst on wed 30 mar 05
I'm glad to see we are back on the air. Hi David. I agree with you about =
bad
designing, or poor throwing etc. I trim the inside when the clay is too =
wet
to get the little bump that might form on the inside out while I throw( =
I
throw with porcelain that is fairly soft.) If there are rings formed =
from
the throwing that I do not want there, I trim those as well. I am of the
opinion that there is no right or wrong way, but an effective and
comfortable way. In particular when I am throwing for translucency or =
plan
to burnish a piece (and pit fire it), I would want no ridges, in or out. =
I
agree that it is best to do it first time right, though.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of David =
Hendley
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 9:26 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing from- and trimming on the inside of a bowl.
Designing a piece with plans for trimming the inside seems like a =
terrible
idea.
It just makes sense to trim the outside, not the inside of a bowl, if =
for no
other
reason than the trimmings collect in the bowl and foul up the trimming
process.
That said, I will certainly trim a mis-shape or poor curve on the inside =
of
a bowl
if I inadvertently threw it poorly. I will also trim the transition from =
the
shoulder
to the neck of a bottle, if it needs it.
These are definitely mistakes, poor practice, and time wasting steps, =
but
I'm
not worried about the Pottery Police arresting me for tweaking a form =
with
this un-planned-for trimming. Whatever works if it improves the form.
David Hendley
I don't know nothin' but the blues, cobalt that is.
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I am curious to know how many potters do that. I often times will trim =
on
> the inside of a piece if I am not happy with the inside shape. I also
> throw
> with the inside shape in mind. Is there any other interesting =
approaches
> out
> there?
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Vince Pitelka on wed 30 mar 05
> So Bill do you see it as wrong to trim on the inside of a piece?
Antoinette -
It isn't wrong as much as it is unnecessary. Like David Hendley, if I made
a bowl and discovered afterwards that I had left a ridge or dip in an
obvious place, I might go in there with a trimming tool to clean it up and
salvage the bowl. But otherwise, it seems like a waste of time.
When throwing, it is good to think in terms of controlling the outside shape
by defining the inside shape, with minimal reliance on trimming later on.
You want to try for even wall thickness overall, with the only anomalies
being the rim, the foot, and any other places where the form needs to be
thicker. Obviously, with many forms some trimming is necessary.
When throwing bowls, if you used curved ribs, you should be able to get the
inside profile of the bowl exactly as you want it, eliminating any necessity
of trimming the inside.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Alisa Liskin Clausen on thu 31 mar 05
. I encourage you to try a
>variety of ribs. They take a little getting used to, but you'll soon be
>able to control the inside contour of your bowl easily.
I would agree very much with Cindy that using a rib is good way to get the
inside contour of your bowl. Way back when I learned to throw from David
MacDonald he said two things about bowls which I still practice today for
better or for worse.
The inside contour should closely follow the outside contour.
When this is true, there is very little to trim.
He would not let us trim the inside.
I think this was a teaching tool to do get us to learn to throw bowls
without thick foots.
Today I would say if there is a little bit of clay to be trimmed or cleaned
inside, I would do that.
I would say that you maybe need to look at how you are opening your bowls.
You would have not much to trim if you open the bowl with the butt of your
hand and make a scooped out opening, instead of something more right angled
like for a cylinder.
I use two ribs. One on the inside and one on the outside. I tend to use
the red very soft Sherrill ribs inside, and a stiffer one on the outside.
This will help also to get rid of water, tighten up those clay platelettes
(Got to get Sherrill to make a body rib)and refine your curves (that body
rib is sounding better and better). They make a really small rib that is
good for the bottom inside. Seriously, be watchful as you get to glide the
ribs off of the top rim of the bowl,not to catch the rib and wreck the
finely thrown bowl you just made.
regards from Alisa in Denmark
Antoinette Badenhorst on thu 31 mar 05
"The inside contour should closely follow the outside contour" Ahaaa, =
that
is exactly my point.... it should be the other way round: The outside =
should
follow the inside.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Alisa =
Liskin
Clausen
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:45 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing from- and trimming on the inside of a bowl.
. I encourage you to try a
>variety of ribs. They take a little getting used to, but you'll soon be
>able to control the inside contour of your bowl easily.
I would agree very much with Cindy that using a rib is good way to get =
the
inside contour of your bowl. Way back when I learned to throw from =
David
MacDonald he said two things about bowls which I still practice today =
for
better or for worse.
The inside contour should closely follow the outside contour.
When this is true, there is very little to trim.
He would not let us trim the inside.
I think this was a teaching tool to do get us to learn to throw bowls
without thick foots.
Today I would say if there is a little bit of clay to be trimmed or =
cleaned
inside, I would do that.
I would say that you maybe need to look at how you are opening your =
bowls.
You would have not much to trim if you open the bowl with the butt of =
your
hand and make a scooped out opening, instead of something more right =
angled
like for a cylinder.
I use two ribs. One on the inside and one on the outside. I tend to =
use
the red very soft Sherrill ribs inside, and a stiffer one on the =
outside.
This will help also to get rid of water, tighten up those clay =
platelettes
(Got to get Sherrill to make a body rib)and refine your curves (that =
body
rib is sounding better and better). They make a really small rib that is
good for the bottom inside. Seriously, be watchful as you get to glide =
the
ribs off of the top rim of the bowl,not to catch the rib and wreck the
finely thrown bowl you just made.
regards from Alisa in Denmark
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Malcolm Schosha on thu 31 mar 05
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Antoinette Badenhorst
wrote:
> "The inside contour should closely follow the outside contour"
Ahaaa, that
> is exactly my point.... it should be the other way round: The
outside should
> follow the inside.
>
> Antoinette Badenhorst
> 105 Westwood Circle
> Saltillo MS, 38866
> www.clayandcanvas.com
>
............
Yes. It is best to throw the inside shape as you want it, and (if
necessary) trim the outside shape to correspond. Still, sometimes the
outside and inside intentionally differ from eachother in interesting
ways.
There is no fixed rule. Everything changes according to intention,
need and circumstance.
Malcolm Schosha
Linda Ferzoco on thu 31 mar 05
You long-time potters likely knew this already - that the interior of a
vessel is what one is designing. It hit me as a revelation when Ron Roy
expounded upon this in a workshop here in California last summer. A glaze
workshop no less.
Sheesh, sounds to me like artists talking but it can't be because potters
aren't artists, right?
Then I got to feel like a smarty pants artiste when I conveyed the concept
in my ceramics class, many of whom have been doing pottery for years. Many
eyes were opened.
Thanks to you all,
Linda
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