search  current discussion  categories  techniques - misc 

bible and trimming

updated sat 2 apr 05

 

Earl Brunner on thu 31 mar 05


They can't cram something down your throat if your mouth is
closed............
And on Clayart, we have a delete key.

Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:15 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Bible and trimming

But maybe Bea is sensitive because of the
politicians of late, ramming the bible down people's throats.

When Mel was talking negatively about Zen, it would
have been great to see just ONE person stick up for Zen.

--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org

primalmommy on thu 31 mar 05


bea pix wrote:> is this some sort of personal testimonial about a
religious investment opportunity?>shouldn't this advertisement about
investing in a bible-promoting project be on some sort of commercial
and/or religious list?

Hey, yeah, mel, and what's the deal posting about swords on a clay list?
We're not all Samurai, you know, and I resent your assumption that we
might have any interest in crafts other then those requiring clay. What
about textiles, glass, basket weaving? Why were THEY not mentioned?
Swords are too violent, anyway. Take your sword talk to some metal
working list. (end sarcasm here.)

Honestly, Bea, I get why some of us are feeling a little overwhelmed
with the prevalence and politics of religion these days, but if you have
been reading mel's posts and following the context, this is clearly
about time, skill, commitment to one's vision. Take some deep breaths
and have a nice hot cup of lighten up.

Trimming the inside of bowls: I have only had one student who trimmed
inside, and it was the result of his frustration with having never
learned to throw from the inside. He was frustrated by having pots with
the weight and grace of a steel belted radial tire, so he used his bad
pots like blanks to carve better pots from.

Only they weren't really better.

Here is why I asked him to stop trimming inside:

1.) Class is about learning new skills. He could always go back to
trimming inside once he learned to throw a thin walled pot. But he
shouldn't be using it as a crutch.

2.) The point of learning to throw a form like a cylinder or bowl is to
get as much of that lump of clay up the walls as possible. This student
was limited in the height he could reach with his forms, because most of
the clay in the original ball he centered was destined for the trimming
floor and would never be part of the pot.

3.) This is just me -- I dislike the look of a trimmed/turned form. It
looks... wooden. I don't even like a trimmed knob. They always look like
a drawer pull or a cupboard knob to me, spindlework from a lathe. And
any clay with even a small amount of grog is going to have a scarred
surface from trimming.

Again, just me -- but the beauty of clay is that it's a SOFT material.
Look at Don Davis's pots -- nice smooth surfaces, but with a little life
to them. Motion. A lot of what makes a pitcher or a teapot or a cup or
bowl appealing is the place where it is OUT of round, or has a little
spiral up the side or a butt crack like Tony's mugs, or some whisper of
the human hand in an interior surface. Trimming can't give you that. It
can echo industrial symmetry, but we should aim for better than that.

I know there are exceptions, and don't care if folks who know how to
throw proficiently trim their porcelain eggshell thin, or trim for some
desired effect. But I see too many people trimming away mistakes instead
of improving their throwing skills.

Yours
Kelly in Ohio
off to drop off slides at the developer. 500 pitchers has an April 1
deadline.. Jeff says I never met a deadline I didn't push..








_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com

250MB & 2GB Email Accounts – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator - Much More!


Louis Katz on thu 31 mar 05


I think we should get off Bea's case.

When I read Mel's post part of the enthusiasm is about the book being
written for the first time in English fully illuminated. This is
significant for Mel. Part of his enthusiam seems to be because of what
book it is. While I find borrowing from other traditions to decorate
this Christian text mildly troubling, on the whole I did not have a
problem with it. But part of my reading of this text is Mel's
enthusiasm for the material. This gives it a pro-Christian read to me.
So? should I expect something different from Mel?Is it fair to?

I could be offended. ie. Mel apparently has more respect for Buddhism
than Judaism and is willing to express it in his post, or perhaps the
capital B, one of his few capital letters was just an accident, or he
missed the J. I don't think this was intentional. I think Mel in this
post was trying hard to specifically be non-offensive. I am not sure
others could read the attempt in it. For me it was plain as day.

I have on three or four occasions, maybe more brought up items on the
list that were decidedly Jewish. I am often passionate about this. I
could see how I could go over the top or how I could read Mel's post in
a different context. I once posted something having nothing to do with
clay other than the prevalence of people assuming that I was Christian
on a clay list. So? It may have not ben clay but was clayart. Easily,
probably, almost certainly it offended someone. I would not be
surprised if I offended someone daily. Its a family trait. It comes
from speaking your mind as Bea has.

Bea, I think Mel's passion about this is something that we just have to
accept and allow him to post on the subject of this book. The book is
craft (ars) and pertinent. I see what I think you are reacting to, I
just think it is unavoidable. Also there is always conflict when the
moderator posts to a list, but I think it is unreasonable to expect
them to not post.

Whatever. I think we would be better off if we asked Bea questions to
clarify why she is offended rather than jumping on her case and I am
hoping that this topic goes off the list.
Goin home to read Robinson Crusoe to my son.

Ramblin Louis




lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
louis.katz@tamucc.edu

Lee Love on fri 1 apr 05


primalmommy wrote:

>Hey, yeah, mel, and what's the deal posting about swords on a clay list?
>
The Book of Kell's is a national treasure. I support Mel's mentioning
of the illuminated bible. But maybe Bea is sensitive because of the
politicians of late, ramming the bible down people's throats.

When Mel was talking negatively about Zen, it would
have been great to see just ONE person stick up for Zen.

--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://potters.blogspot.com/ WEB LOG
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ Photos!