pass up or not? kiln l&l j236

updated sun 24 apr 05

Victoria Cherney on wed 20 apr 05

Hi folks,

I know someone selling an L&L J236 kiln for $1000. According to the
seller, it was used for about 4 years and has been sitting in her barn
for some unknown number of years. It includes shelves/posts, pyrometer
for checking 3 zones and vent system. Fires to cone 10. manually
controlled. I don't know if it has the heavier elements. I believe
that the firebrick is 2 1/2" thick. Firing capacity: 9.4 cubic feet.

If anyone has experience with this kiln I would appreciate hearing from
you. $1000 would be very very difficult to come by, but if this is an
offer I shouldn't pass up (or should), I'd like to know. Plus, there's
the unknown cost of having an electrician come to ready the wiring....

Thanks in advance.
Victoria

Cynthia Bracker on wed 20 apr 05

Brand new cost is $2265 retail (You can probably find it for about 20%
off) and that doesn't include any furniture. It's a good sized kiln and
L&L is a great brand. If it's been sitting in a barn, you'll want to
look at some stuff. I'm including an e-mail I posted a while back about
buying used kilns. I think that might help. Initially, this looks like
a great deal!
Cindy
Generally you can use the "75% rule" Which is:
If the kiln is in excellent condition, pay up to 75% of a new one.
Factors that will affect lowering that "percent of new" price are:
1. Availability of parts (in this case, yes)
2. Brick condition - although bricks are cheap, the time (labor) to
replace them is intensive
3. Age - Deduct about 10% for anything over 5 years old, deduct about
20% if its over 10 years old (kiln design is constantly changing and
improving)
4. Number of firings on the elements. Some kilns use VERY expensive
elements. If this information is not available, beg, borrow or steal an
Ohm meter and take a resistance reading of each element, then call the
kiln manufacturer with those readings to determine use.
5. Power cord condition - melted plastic or corroded-looking prongs is
an indicator of a bigger problem
6. Electrical panel condition - beg borrow or steal a screwdriver and
open up the control box. (MAKE SURE THE KILN IS UNPLUGGED FIRST!) You
don't need to be an electrician, just look around in there. If the
wires are "crispy," or anything looks green & powdery or black & powdery
or otherwise like World War III assume it needs to be replaced. You
might want to call a kiln tech or the mfgr to determine the cost of
replacement before making an offer on the kiln.
7. Voltage & Phase - This is usually a problem with school auction
kilns. Most homes in the US are 240V Single Phase. Schools or
industrial/commercial locations can be either 240V or 208V and Single or
Three Phase. The best thing to do is pass on any kiln that isn't the
same as your electricity. However, if you can talk the person down to a
really low price, (like 25% of new maximum) you might be able to change
the kiln to match your electricity. (This usually involves AT LEAST a
new set of elements and switches) Be sure to contact the mfgr or a
local kiln tech before agreeing to buy under these circumstances
8. Furniture - If shelves are included that's a plus (if this is your
first kiln or a different size than your existing kiln) Generally a
shelf kit can cost anywhere from $100-$250 depending on size. This may
offset some of the deductions on price (I still wouldn't pay more than
75% of the new price no matter how many shelves were included)
9. Exposure - If the kiln has been outside or in an uncontrolled
environment, it will GREATLY reduce the value. You can often tell if
this is the case because the bricks will smell funny (This is mold - and
if this is the case, walk away. The bricks are NOT in good condition
anymore) or you might see mud dauber or bug nests in the control box.
There might also be excessive rust (especially around the hinge & screws).

Of course it goes without saying that if the seller won't let you look
at the kiln or check the elements etc. there's probably a reason for
that. Ask why or just pass altogether. You should feel comfortable
purchasing this particular kiln from this particular person. If
anything gives you a strange feeling, don't buy it. You are welcome to
call and ask for Dave while looking at the kiln or afterwards with
questions, toll-free (888) 822-1982 during our business hours (Tues-Fri
9-5 and Sat 10-3 Central Time)

Good Luck!
Cindy Bracker & Dave Sturm
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.

Victoria Cherney wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I know someone selling an L&L J236 kiln for $1000. According to the
> seller, it was used for about 4 years and has been sitting in her barn
> for some unknown number of years. It includes shelves/posts, pyrometer
> for checking 3 zones and vent system. Fires to cone 10. manually
> controlled. I don't know if it has the heavier elements. I believe
> that the firebrick is 2 1/2" thick. Firing capacity: 9.4 cubic feet.
>
> If anyone has experience with this kiln I would appreciate hearing from
> you. $1000 would be very very difficult to come by, but if this is an
> offer I shouldn't pass up (or should), I'd like to know. Plus, there's
> the unknown cost of having an electrician come to ready the wiring....
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Victoria
>
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>
>

--
Cindy Bracker (ext. 12)

Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
1831 E 1450 Road
Lawrence, KS 66044

TOLL FREE: 1-888-822-1982
FAX: 785-841-8142
http://www.brackers.com

This communication contains proprietary business information and may contain confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately destroy, discard, or erase this communication.

Steve Slatin on wed 20 apr 05

Victoria --

I don't know as much about kilns as many folks on this
list, but let me point out a few things to
think about --

1 - I think L&L made the J-236 with either 2 1/2 or 3
inch brick. If it's a 2 1/2 in brick kiln, you
might not want to pay too much for it. A 10 cu ft
kiln it trying to keep a large volume hot; a 3" brick
will be substantially lower in cost to run (both
electricity costs and element replacement).

2 - A manual J-236 is a very competent piece of
equipment. It also requires that you sit with it for
much of your firing. I stay awake (mostly*) for my
firings, but I don't have to baby my kiln because it
has a controller. It's much easier knowing I can run
by my studio every hour or threabouts, take a gander
through the window and know if everything's OK or not.


3 - I believe the J-236 requires direct wiring of 3
phases in either 208 or 240 volts -- it'll take some
serious rewiring from an electrician unless you're
already pretty heavily wired.

4 - It's been in a barn for years? I'd be concerned
with humidity damage (connection points for electrical
parts would have me worried).

5 - Is this kiln the right size for you? I expect to
get beaten up pretty badly for this, but as someone
who's only been firing his own kiln for a year, I'd
suggest a smaller kiln would be wiser. I find that
it's a good thing for me to be able to fill a bisque
kiln with a week's work, and that lets you keep work
'in the pipeline' and going towards finished work.
Height it also an issue. Some short-armed potters get
great big kilns and then have to climb on stuff and
lean on the kiln wall (a bad thing to do to firebrick)
to load and unload. Yes, big kilns are a tradition
for professionals, and if you've got lots of glazes
worked out and you're not experimenting much it makes
sense to go for the big kiln. But the larger the kiln
the more likely a beginner is to take a glaze that's
still in the shakedown stage and do 20-30 pieces in
that glaze -- and that can lead to serious
disappointments.

4 - If the owner hasn't fired for several years they
may be willing to let it go for far less than they are
quoting. It's too big to be a paperweight, and right
now it's just taking up space ... and it's a tradition
in New England to haggle a bit over a big piece of
equipment.

Whatever you decide, you'll be working with it for
some years to come. Make sure it's suitable for the
way you like to work.

Regards -- Steve Slatin

*(OK, I know you all jump on people who nap -- but
when I'm doing a bisque I do a preheat that's up to 12
hours, followed by a slow bisque firing that takes
maybe 12 hours. You stay-awake snobs normally stay up
for 24 hours at a stretch? Nah, I didn't think so.
I'm happy making sure that I'm awake for when the kiln
turns on, when it goes into the bisque, and for the
last few hours, so I can check temps as well as
possible.)

--- Victoria Cherney wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I know someone selling an L&L J236 kiln for $1000.
> According to the
> seller, it was used for about 4 years and has been
> sitting in her barn
> for some unknown number of years. It includes
> shelves/posts, pyrometer
> for checking 3 zones and vent system. Fires to cone
> 10. manually
> controlled.

Steve Slatin --

Sera que ela mexe o chocalho ou o chocalho e que mexe com ela



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Steve Slatin on thu 21 apr 05

Bill --

The J-236 is 9.4 cu. ft. kiln. It's 24 inches across,
and 36" high. It requires long arms. I don't know
all the L&L's, but believe you may have
one of the other models -- (for a while L&L used the
obvious method of identifying its kilns, i.e., a
Jupiter 2917 is 29 across and 17 inches high inside
but the three-digit codes defy understanding).

I found the page that has the L&L wiring requirements,

http://www.hotkilns.com/jupiter-electric.pdf

and I believe that the kiln Victoria's
interested in takes 3 gague wire -- unless she's got
the powered bottom, in which case it calls for 2 gague
(both presuming 240 v single phase), and pulls either
60 or 66 amps, so in either case direct wiring will be
needed.

I'd be happy to own a 236 myself, but it's a major
piece of hardware.

Regards -- Steve Slatin

--- william schran wrote:
> We have two of these kilns at school, both donated,
> both about 10
> years old, or older.
> $1000 is a good price for everything that's included
> - new would be
> twice the price.
>
> It's rated to ^10, but with 2 1/2" walls, it will
> have a tough time
> getting there. We fire ours consistently to cone 6.
> It probably does
> not have heavier elements. I think the capacity is
> actually more in
> the range of 7 cu. ft.
>
> Depending on how far away from your electric panel
> the kiln is
> installed, you'll probably use #6 copper wire and
> 50 amp breaker.
> This is about the largest size kiln you can plug in.
>


Steve Slatin --

Sera que ela mexe o chocalho ou o chocalho e que mexe com ela

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william schran on thu 21 apr 05

Victoria wrote:It includes shelves/posts, pyrometer for checking 3 zones and vent
system. Fires to cone 10. manually controlled. I don't know if it
has the heavier elements. I believe
that the firebrick is 2 1/2" thick. Firing capacity: 9.4 cubic feet.
Plus, there's the unknown cost of having an electrician come to ready
the wiring....<

We have two of these kilns at school, both donated, both about 10
years old, or older.
$1000 is a good price for everything that's included - new would be
twice the price.

It's rated to ^10, but with 2 1/2" walls, it will have a tough time
getting there. We fire ours consistently to cone 6. It probably does
not have heavier elements. I think the capacity is actually more in
the range of 7 cu. ft.

Depending on how far away from your electric panel the kiln is
installed, you'll probably use #6 copper wire and 50 amp breaker.
This is about the largest size kiln you can plug in.

If you can swing it, I'd go for it.

Bill, in Fredericksburg, VA where it was in the high 80's yesterday,
will only be in the 50's this weekend.