ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on fri 6 may 05
why are you washing the ash????? I dont wash ash.. too much trouble,, I use
50 ash 50 red clay, so simple,, also 50 ash 50 Plastic Vitrox,, keep it
simple ,, washing ash too much trouble!!!!!
Mark
www.lookoutmountainpotter.com
Rob Di Stasio on fri 6 may 05
I saved all the wood ash from the fireplace this winter and I'm going to
try and make a glaze.
I remember hearing that the ash should be placed in a bucket and water
should flow overtill it runs clear. I have gotten as far as fillig the
bucket and skimming off the large chunks that floated to the top.
How do I proceed from here, keep water running in and agitating?
When the ash is finally clean I suspect it must be dried so it can
accurately be measured by weight. What's the best method for that?
Thanks, Rob
Marc Hudson on fri 6 may 05
Hi Rob,
Check out the ClayArt archives. You will find lots of helpful info there=
=20
about washing, drying, and mixing ash into glazes
Marc Hudson
Playing with Fire
Espa=F1ola, NM, USA
www.artfulnm.org/hudson.html
---------- Original Message -----------
From: Rob Di Stasio
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Fri, 6 May 2005 09:49:37 -0400
Subject: Washing ash for glazes, proper procedure?
> I saved all the wood ash from the fireplace this winter and I'm=20
> going to try and make a glaze.
>=20
> I remember hearing that the ash should be placed in a bucket and=20
> water should flow overtill it runs clear. I have gotten as far as=20
> fillig the bucket and skimming off the large chunks that floated to=20
> the top.
>=20
> How do I proceed from here, keep water running in and agitating?
>=20
> When the ash is finally clean I suspect it must be dried so it can
> accurately be measured by weight. What's the best method for that?
>=20
> Thanks, Rob
>=20
>=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>=20
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>=20
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at=20
melpots@pclink.com.
------- End of Original Message -------
Rob Di Stasio on sat 7 may 05
Lee,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, it will be very helpful.
How do you dry the ash so You can measure it by weight?
Thanks, Rob
Lee Love on sat 7 may 05
Rob Di Stasio wrote:
> How do I proceed from here, keep water running in and agitating?
>
When I did my apprenticeship, this was one of my jobs. When ever I
prepare ash now, it is Deja Vu, all over again. ;^)
I screen through a larger screen dry (before I add water,) to get big
chunks out. What I use is a sort of wire basket from the 100 yen store.
My teacher used window screen. First thing I do after making a slurry,
is put it through a sieve. The size depends on you. My teacher uses 200
mesh, I just use 30.
Siphon or scoop off the water at the top after the ash settles. Add
water, mix thouroghly, when it settles, take the water off the top. Keep
doing this until the water settles clear.
You can see my main glaze, nami jiro here:
http://potters.blogspot.com/2005/04/nami-jiro-glaze-with-hakame-slip.html
Irabo runny ash here:
http://potters.blogspot.com/2005/04/tsubo-with-irabo-runny-ash-glazelee.html
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
Rob Di Stasio on sun 8 may 05
Really now folks, I appreciate the interest but I did not ask whether I should
wash ash but rather how to do it.
I don't need anyone else telling me it's unnecessary, I'll decide that for
my self.
So if someone can answer the question about how to dry the ash for weighing
I'll be done with it.
Thanks, Rob
Vince Pitelka on sun 8 may 05
Rob Di Stasio wrote:
"Really now folks, I appreciate the interest but I did not ask whether I
should wash ash but rather how to do it. I don't need anyone else telling
me it's unnecessary. I'll decide that for my self. So if someone can answer
the question about how to dry the ash for weighing I'll be done with it."
First, Rob, no reason to get snippy. People were trying to help you. Mark
Issenberg is a wonderful potter with vast experience in ash glazes, and to
dismiss his comment in such cavalier fashion is certainly not in your best
interests. Select which advice you want to take, and if someone posts
something useless to you, just ignore it.
When you have washed the ash the final time, let it settle thoroughly, pour
off all the water, spread the wet ash on a sheet of plastic and let it dry.
Once it is dry, crush it back to powder and weigh it. To crush it, take the
dry ash outside, put on your dust mask, break it the dry ash and put it in
the bottom of a bucket or barrel and crush it with the end of a clean 2x4.
It is true that washed ash and unwashed ash behave completely differently in
glazes. But it is also true that there is no danger in using unwashed ash
as long as it is done with reasonable common sense. One can simply use
washed ash as a glaze ingredient in glazes that we don't normally think of
as ash glazes. But if a person wants to make a classic ash glaze, I don't
understand the idea of washing out all the soluble flux and then turnning
around and putting it back in with feldspar or neph sy in an attempt to make
a glaze that performs like a classic ash glaze.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Rod Wuetherick on sun 8 may 05
"Really now folks, I appreciate the interest but I did not ask whether I =
should wash ash but rather how to do it.
"I don't need anyone else telling me it's unnecessary, I'll decide that =
for my self. So if someone can answer the question about "how to dry =
the ash for weighing I'll be done with it.
Rob,
With a pestiferous post such as that I'm not sure how many replies your =
going to get. I could tell you how to dry the ash for weighing but.... =
well.... you looked at a gift of experience and knowledge with a =
somewhat edgy acerbic attitude.
Depending on your experience perhaps you SHOULD listen to some of the =
reasons FOR washing and NOT washing. I personally heartily disagree with =
Lee on this subject for a plethora of reasons.
Lee,
You always talk about the magic of firing wood, using natural materials, =
etc. Then say we really SHOULD wash wood ash. I say we should wash wood =
ash perhaps depending on what we are doing with it. I have done =
literally 100's and 100's of tests with Jun glazes with washed/unwashed =
wood ash real bone ash/DICAL, etc.=20
I have personally found the most beautiful Jun glazes are found with =
unwashed wood ash and real bone ash. It seems when you wash all those =
yummy phosphates, etc. away by over washing your ash you turn what was =
once a variable and magical flux material into an almost boring flux. =
Hey if you don't have access to flux materials somewhere out in the =
boonies' and you are making ash celadon glazes and would like a higher =
degree of consistency then sure wash that ash 20 times.
BTW Rob if you wash that ash multiple times and all the solubles are =
gone just dump it on a plaster bat and it will be ready for weighing in =
a day or so. I figured from the wording of your email that perhaps you =
knew enough about the process that anyone telling you how you SHOULD =
prepare the ash might invite an another testy response.
peace,
Rod
Wayne Seidl on sun 8 may 05
The simplest way is always the easiest, though not the fastest.
=20
Once you decant the final rinse water, simply leave it in the
(plastic) bucket, in the sun, until it's dry,
or transfer it to metal containers (I use old stainless steel
roasting pans) and place them on top of your kiln while it's firing.
I use both methods, but I'm never in a hurry to get more ash. I
don't use that much.
=20
A five gallon bucket full of ash, washed a few times (I'm not a
fanatic about rinsing X number of times),
decanted and dried, yields (for me) about two to four inches of
dried hard ash, which I then pound up and sieve
(through a 120) into storage containers (plastic). It can take up
to a week, depending on the weather, your firing time (or not) etc.
=20
Have fun,
Wayne Seidl
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Rob Di
Stasio
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 11:40 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Washing ash for glazes, proper procedure?
=20
Really now folks, I appreciate the interest but I did not ask
whether I should wash ash but rather how to do it.
I don't need anyone else telling me it's unnecessary, I'll decide
that for my self.=20
So if someone can answer the question about how to dry the ash for
weighing I'll be done with it.
Thanks, Rob=20
____________________________________________________________________
__________ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at
the archives for the list or change your subscription settings from
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/ Moderator of the list is Mel
Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Craig Martell on sun 8 may 05
Vince was saying:
>But if a person wants to make a classic ash glaze, I don't
>understand the idea of washing out all the soluble flux and then turnning
>around and putting it back in with feldspar or neph sy in an attempt to make
>a glaze that performs like a classic ash glaze.
Hello Vince:
Once again, we are talking about things that are mainly a personal
choice. I wash my wood ash because I want to lower the content of soluble
fluxes to the point that I can mix glazes and store them for long periods
of time without the mega flocculation problem. I don't wash out all the
solubles but I take out enough that they are no longer a problem. Some
ashes are so stuffed with solubles that I would absolutely hate using them
unwashed. There's also the problem of solubles being carried into the
interface and the claybody and this will sometimes cause problems when the
pots are fired. Not always. But if you give the ash a little water and
take out the lions share of solubles you have nothing to worry about.
I spray my ash glazes and caustic, unwashed ash is hell on wheels with
spray gun tips and any metal it contacts.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Lee Love on mon 9 may 05
Rod Wuetherick wrote:
>Depending on your experience perhaps you SHOULD listen to some of the reasons FOR washing and NOT washing. I personally heartily disagree with Lee on this subject for a plethora of reasons.
>
>
Disagree? Interesting. Pretty much, when someone asks how, I make it a
practice not to tell them that they are wrong for wanting to do what
they want to do. I'd rather enable than preach or lecture.
>Lee,
>
>You always talk about the magic of firing wood, using natural materials, etc. Then say we really SHOULD wash wood ash. I say we should wash wood ash perhaps depending on what we are doing with it. I have done literally 100's and 100's of tests with Jun glazes with washed/unwashed wood ash real bone ash/DICAL, etc.
>
Genuine Chun glazes are primarily feldspar, with only a minute amount of
wood ash and/or boneash added, to add phosphorus which helps create the
blue color, based upon the same principles as what makes the sky blue.
My recipe back home had so little ash (4%), that washing or not washing
caused few problems. Here is the recipe:
Paul's Chun
Custer 80
Whiting 7
Flint 7
Ash 4
Boneash 2
Ocher 1
Bentonite 1
3% copper added to slip on raw body for purple./red blush.
>
>I have personally found the most beautiful Jun glazes are found with unwashed wood ash and real bone ash.
>
There are many beautiful ashes made by various methods. The traditional
way to make Nami Jiro, the standard Mashiko glaze, is with washed ash.
It is applied thin and moves very little, but it has its own appeal.
As I explained previously, the important reason why they wash ash here
in Japan, is because the glazes are mixed by wet measure. If you don't
wash the ash, the amount of ash you add by wet measure will not be
constant, because the amount of solubles in the ash varies and this
effects flocculation/defloculation, which effects the water to ash ratio.
When you mix by dry measure, the soluble content is not so important.
>It seems when you wash all those yummy phosphates, etc. away by over washing your ash you turn what was once a variable and magical flux material into an almost boring flux. Hey if you don't have access to flux materials somewhere out in the boonies' and you are making ash celadon glazes and would like a higher degree of consistency then sure wash that ash 20 times.
>
>
Nami Jiro is a sort of celadon. Mine behaves somewhat like a chun when
it is thick, more blue than what my teacher used. His ash is wash
hundreds of times. I wash my wet measure ash about 6 or 7 times. These
glazes that have 50% ash or more do have enough solubles to cause some
problems or changes in the glazes. So it is important to understand the
differences when you are dealing with larger amounts of wood ash.
One option, if you want the solubles back in the glaze after wet
measuring for mixing the glaze, is that you can save the first wash and
add that water back in after you get your measurements. You can also
reintroduce solubles with soda ash.
>you knew enough about the process that anyone telling you how you SHOULD prepare the ash might invite an another testy response.
>
>
I think you missed the fact that Ron already had his ash slaked, and he
wanted to know where to go from there in order to wash the ash. Rod,
please re-read my post and note that I didn't tell anybody what the
"should" do with their ash. Only that, for accurate wet measure mixing,
wood ash is washed. But you certainly have told us what we "Shouldn't"
do with ash. ;^)
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
Richard Aerni on mon 9 may 05
On Sun, 8 May 2005 18:50:51 -0700, Craig Martell wrote:
>Once again, we are talking about things that are mainly a personal
>choice. I wash my wood ash because I want to lower the content of soluble
>fluxes to the point that I can mix glazes and store them for long periods
>of time without the mega flocculation problem. I don't wash out all the
>solubles but I take out enough that they are no longer a problem. Some
>ashes are so stuffed with solubles that I would absolutely hate using them
>unwashed. There's also the problem of solubles being carried into the
>interface and the claybody and this will sometimes cause problems when the
>pots are fired. Not always. But if you give the ash a little water and
>take out the lions share of solubles you have nothing to worry about.
>
>I spray my ash glazes and caustic, unwashed ash is hell on wheels with
>spray gun tips and any metal it contacts.
>
>regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
I'll chime in here to give evidence to the myriad of approaches one can take
in dealing with aspects of one's own work. I do not wash my wood ash, for a
number of reasons, the primary one being the time and effort it takes.
Flocculation of glazes used to be a problem for me, and to deal with it I
would only mix enough ash glaze to deal with one kiln load. But, as I began
to use more and more types of ash glazes on my pots, it began to be a
problem to mix so many for each firing. So, I looked for solutions, and
after trying many, one presented itself. I now add about a teaspoon of
Darvan 7 to my ash glaze batches and they stay liquid and usable for an
indefinite period of time.
And I also spray my ash glazes, like Craig Martell. They do not affect my
spray gun because I use one that was designed to be a sand blaster, not a
airbrush. It may paint with a bit broader brush than a fancy airbrush, but
there are no parts to wear away, or clog. It's cheap, and I'm still using
the same one that came to me used 25 years ago. Best of all, it has a pivot
pin in the head which allows the user to vary the volume of the spray as you
are spraying, which makes it very quick and easy to use to achieve variable
thicknesses over a pot. And, I might mention, I use this for single fired
work, with no problems.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Rob Di Stasio on mon 9 may 05
Sorry if I seemed snippy, didn't mean to, just frustrated.
On the other hand, up until my last post I was getting answers to questions
I didn't ask, not necessarily a bad thing, I learned a bit, but it didn't
help me.
Once until I became pestiferous (personally I wouldn't go as far as saying
the post was "dangerous to society") I got the info I needed.
It's seems to me that washed vs. unwashed ash is a subject of contention
between different potters and perhaps someday when I'm knowledgable I'll
take a side, but I think it's clear from my original post that this
is the first time I'm making a glaze and the recipe which was given to me
(as a gift I wish to add) calls for well washed wood ash.
Didn't mean to upset anyone, thanks to all for having the interest to reply.
Regards,
Rob
Taylor from Rockport on mon 9 may 05
AND Mr. Aerni forgot to mention that his pots are KEWL ash pots. (Yours too
Issenberg.)
Taylor in Rockport, TX
On Mon, 9 May 2005 07:53:47 -0400, Richard Aerni
wrote:
...
>And I also spray my ash glazes, like Craig Martell. They do not affect my
>spray gun because I use one that was designed to be a sand blaster, not a
>airbrush. It may paint with a bit broader brush than a fancy airbrush, but
>there are no parts to wear away, or clog. It's cheap, and I'm still using
>the same one that came to me used 25 years ago. Best of all, it has a
pivot
>pin in the head which allows the user to vary the volume of the spray as
you
>are spraying, which makes it very quick and easy to use to achieve variable
>thicknesses over a pot. And, I might mention, I use this for single fired
>work, with no problems.
...
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on tue 10 may 05
about ashes,,, in my last firing i had made some tea cups using the method i
saw Jeff Brown demoing at NCECA and also a week later i had a work shop with
Hank Morrow at the App Craft Center throwing and cutting then re throwing ,,,
I really liked the way they looked.. i had made some with a really orange
textured clay and some with a light body clay,,,,
The dark ones i dipped into Shaners Shino and used ash from a flour sifter
while the glaze was wet and used Shark Skin Shino on the Light clay cups
sifting ash on those while wet...
The dark ones are really dark with ash runs and a sheen on the glaze and the
light ones have green clear crackle,, all really yummy,, two different type
of cups using the same technique,, what fun,,,,
SO , there are ways to use ASH,, washing it , NO, too much work
have finally put up my back splash yeaterday, going to grout it tonite,, I
used all my tile ,, i thought i had planty,, didnt have enough to finish a
small wall.. need more tile... whats up looks like Art and Crafts style,, i
sprayed and dipped tiles with all the glazes i use ,, ash , shino, tenmoku,
green and orange,,
Make tile ,, what a way to have NO wasted space in a kiln
Mark
_www.lookoutmountainpottery.com_ (http://www.lookoutmountainpottery.com)
going to Hotlanta Thursday for the Gay Smith opening at Mudfire,, hope to
see a bunch of u there
Lee Love on tue 10 may 05
Taylor from Rockport wrote:
>AND Mr. Aerni forgot to mention that his pots are KEWL ash pots. (Yours too
>Issenberg.)
>
>
Taylor,
Just like in wood kilns, there is a huge variety of effects that can be
achieved with ash. Back home, I think we have too narrow a perspective.
One of the important things I experienced during my apprenticeship, is
being exposed to the variety of effects you can get, both from applied
ash glazing and from fly ash and charcoal introduction into the
woodkiln. I put some photos up of my teacher's work, showing the great
variety one potter can get from ash. You can see it at the link below.
Also, the korean style pots below my teacher's work is wood ash glazed:
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
Lee Love on wed 11 may 05
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM wrote:
>SO , there are ways to use ASH,, washing it , NO, too much work
>
My Korean kickwheel is "too much work." My only kiln, my wood fired
kiln, is "too much work." What would I do without "too much work"? ;-)
I noticed another reason why my teacher washed his ash for his standard
Nami Jiro glaze. After I had been there a while, I realized that the
single most important aspect of the glazing of his work was not how the
work was fired (in the gas kiln or the noborigama), but rather, the
meticulous care in which the wood ash glaze was applied. Because water
is removed at the beginning of glazing and added as the work to be
glazed becomes thicker, if you did not remove the solubles from the
glaze, because of the changing of the amount of water in the glaze, it
would cause an inconsistent outcome.
There were two versions of the same standard glaze that had different
amounts of kaolin in them. These were blended according to where in the
kiln the work would go. The hottest area of the kiln required the glaze
with the most kaolin in it. The coolest parts had the glazes that were
the lowest in Kaolin. Kaolin content varied from 5% in the coolest
spots, to 25% in the hottest part of the noborigama. In the gas kiln,
the kaolin went from 5% to 15%.
In addition to the variation of kaolin content, the water content of the
glaze varied according to the thickness of the work. The thinnest work
was glazed first and used the glaze that had the lowest water content.
As we glazed thicker work, more water was added. Water was added the
minimum of five times. So, even in the gas kiln, where you would have
the minimum of 3 different kaolin content glazes and 5 different levels
of water content, we ended up using 3 X 5 = 15 different variations of
the same glaze. Essentially, these variations in the glazes according to
the thickness of the ware and how hot the area was that the piece would
go, insured that all the glaze on the work looked essentially the same.
Yes, it was "too much work." But, everything at my teacher's workshop
required "too much work", from the modern perspective.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
David Beumee on wed 11 may 05
Hi Vince,
My expeience is that thoroughly washed ash still has plenty of flux in it, and cures a lot of running problems in an ash glaze recipe while retaining the unique rivulet patterns.
David Beumee
www.davidbeumee.com
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Vince Pitelka
> Rob Di Stasio wrote:
> "Really now folks, I appreciate the interest but I did not ask whether I
> should wash ash but rather how to do it. I don't need anyone else telling
> me it's unnecessary. I'll decide that for my self. So if someone can answer
> the question about how to dry the ash for weighing I'll be done with it."
>
> First, Rob, no reason to get snippy. People were trying to help you. Mark
> Issenberg is a wonderful potter with vast experience in ash glazes, and to
> dismiss his comment in such cavalier fashion is certainly not in your best
> interests. Select which advice you want to take, and if someone posts
> something useless to you, just ignore it.
>
> When you have washed the ash the final time, let it settle thoroughly, pour
> off all the water, spread the wet ash on a sheet of plastic and let it dry.
> Once it is dry, crush it back to powder and weigh it. To crush it, take the
> dry ash outside, put on your dust mask, break it the dry ash and put it in
> the bottom of a bucket or barrel and crush it with the end of a clean 2x4.
>
> It is true that washed ash and unwashed ash behave completely differently in
> glazes. But it is also true that there is no danger in using unwashed ash
> as long as it is done with reasonable common sense. One can simply use
> washed ash as a glaze ingredient in glazes that we don't normally think of
> as ash glazes. But if a person wants to make a classic ash glaze, I don't
> understand the idea of washing out all the soluble flux and then turnning
> around and putting it back in with feldspar or neph sy in an attempt to make
> a glaze that performs like a classic ash glaze.
> Good luck -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
| |
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