John Britt on fri 3 jun 05
Love having mel back! He really stirs up the hive!
I don't usually do this but his post cries out for a Beatles quote:
"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."
Let's start passing out the love and quit the whining!
President of the Glaze Recipe - Free Trade Association
John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com
Vince Pitelka on fri 3 jun 05
> Sorry gang but I don't think many of us are original artists. I look at
> pots from Asia, Europe, America and wherever and try my darndest to copy
> them. As far as I'm concerned it's all been done before and usually
> better.
Bah humbug Tony the sometimes-curmudgeon. As I have said before, the human
race has barely scratched the surface of creative possibility. Plenty of
so-called "artists" really are not that creative at all, and have no
recourse but to immitate the work they admire, while there are plenty of
truely innovative ones who blaze new ground. No one else has made Tony
Clennell pots before.
And Tony, I don't understand why you would be in a funk about upcoming
exhibition, if it is the one you referred to recently. Why should it be
other than an honor and a point of pride? You shouldn't hesitate to show
your wares alongside those of any other potter.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Rod Wuetherick on fri 3 jun 05
> Sorry gang but I don't think many of us are original artists. I look at
> pots from Asia, Europe, America and wherever and try my darndest to copy
> them.
Tony,
Not sure where I read it but this little quote is fitting as per above;
"Creativity is directly proportional to the obscurity of it's sources"
-Unknown (at least by moi')
peace,
Rod
william schran on sat 4 jun 05
Well yeah, it's all been done before, except for the stuff that
hasn't been done yet.
Tony wrote:>So I realized that i was on the right track. It took a
potter that I admire
to take my work and celebrate it, to convince me that I should stick with my
own aesthetic.<
I'm the same. I'm my own worst critic. I point to this and that -
man, coulda done that better.
Then somebody picks it up and says it's the most wonderful pot
they've even seen.
So I guess it's good, but can always be better.
Bill
Mike Gordon on sat 4 jun 05
Great site , Lee thanks, Mike Gordon
On Jun 4, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Lee Love wrote:
>
> Check out how far we fall from the mark:
>
> http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/lascaux/en/f-visite.htm
>
> --
> $BM{ (B Lee Love $BBg (B
> $B0&!!!! (B $B!!!! (B $BNZ (B
> in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
> http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
>
> "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
> difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
> make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
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>
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>
Vince Pitelka on sat 4 jun 05
> We stand on the shoulder's of Giants. We can't improve upon the charcoal,
> iron oxide, and manganese paintings
> at Lascaux Cave made 30,000 years ago. We can only hope to draw upon the
> same inspiration.
I don't know about standing on the shoulders of giants or drawing from the
same inspiration. Perhaps an ongoing series of giants appearing throughout
the history of art, with more to come, and perhaps we can experience an
equally powerful inspiration, rather than hoping to draw upon the same one.
Because 19th and early 20th century archaeologists, anthropologists, and art
historians made such awkward reference to ancient and tribal art as
"primitive," denying or denigrating the level of sophistication in the
artwork, we now sometimes feel like we have to make up for their
transgressions by elevating the best artworks of the past to a level of
accomplishment that we cannot hope to equal. That doesn't make any sense.
Human artistic expression is driven by the times and circumstances, and by
individual creative genius as it randomly emerges from the great human
miasma. Great artists appeared in the past, great artists are alive today,
great artists will appear in the future. There is no shortage of creative
inspiration out there, past, present, and future.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
clennell on sat 4 jun 05
Sorry gang but I don't think many of us are original artists. I look at
pots from Asia, Europe, America and wherever and try my darndest to copy
them. As far as I'm concerned it's all been done before and usually better.
I posted that I was in a major creative funk because i am to be in a show
with a few potters that I am in awe of. Spent the best part of a month
making pots that aren't me.
About a month ago there was a show at Sheridan of faculty work. I gave Bruce
a big casserole that I had made but wasn't all that proud of. I went to the
show only to see my cassserole along with a large ash glazed teapot he
bought from me a couple of years ago. He said it is one of his favourite
pots of mine. Last night at the wood firing Bruce showed me some of the new
work he is making. He said much of it was influenced by my teapot.
So I realized that i was on the right track. It took a potter that I admire
to take my work and celebrate it, to convince me that I should stick with my
own aesthetic. I am pumped now and know exactly what I need to make for the
show. It took Bruce looking at my work and identifying what he liked about
it to get me on track about what i like about it. I hope this makes sense.
For those of you that have had your work copied, if it is by someone that
can make it as well or much better it is indeed the highest form of
flattery.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Sour Cherry Pottery
4545 King Street
Beamsville, Ontario
CANADA L0R 1B1
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com/current_news/news_letter.html
John Jensen on sun 5 jun 05
This topic has been quite popular, with many points of view expressed. =
I
find I can find agreement all around, but I particularly wanted to =
respond
to Tony's statement, "Sorry gang, but I don't think many of us are =
original
artists."
I think there's a lot of truth to that, and furthermore I think even =
the
creative ones among us find that the true creative, original ideas quite
rare. Einstein, the physicist, had a few great insights and spent the =
rest
of his life working out the implication. Cezanne was a mediocre sort of
painter until he had a great creative leap, then spent the rest of his =
life
working out the possibilities. You can look at the life work of any =
artist
and see that the work as a whole expresses just a few major insights. =
And
the life work is made up of many lesser creative moments. These "lesser
creative moments" (as I've called them) are still part of an ongoing
creative life and each is fully imbued with the creative spirit.
Many of us who love art and are drawn to the world of art may have a =
lust
or desire to be able to enjoy the presumed benefits of creativity. Some =
of
us may desire the presumed fame and glory, or great financial advantage,
while some others may want to experience the penetration of the mystery. =
To
satisfy this desire some may devote themselves to the mastery of a =
medium,
study the history and philosophy, practice, meditate, and work, work, =
work.
All the while praying for whatever guiding force to align with our =
dream.
In this way perhaps some small light may shine, some gentle parting of =
the
veil which may momentarily allow a vision of a new way to work. A
discovery. An insight. An invention, perhaps.
Others may find a sort of satisfaction in simply learning to copy an
admired artist. Some others may copy an admired artist and make claim =
to
originality.
I don't think it is realistic to say to an artist whose has been =
copied,
robbed, cheated, stolen from..."Just move on." As if creative work were
some sort of endless fountain any good artist had inside. In fact, the
abused artist may have to move on without getting justice or =
satisfaction;
but it won't be easy and the theft is no less a theft for the fact of =
having
put it behind oneself.
As Tony and other have said imitation is a great form of flattery, and =
I
can heartily agree with that. But imitation may lead to theft, and =
while
that may be somewhat flattering, it is still a deplorable abuse and =
should
not be excused or tolerated.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of clennell
Subject: We're all rip off artists
Sorry gang but I don't think many of us are original artists. I look at
pots from Asia, Europe, America and wherever and try my darndest to copy
them. As far as I'm concerned it's all been done before and usually =
better.
I posted that I was in a major creative funk because i am to be in a =
show
with a few potters that I am in awe of. Spent the best part of a month
making pots that aren't me.
About a month ago there was a show at Sheridan of faculty work. I gave =
Bruce
a big casserole that I had made but wasn't all that proud of. I went to =
the
show only to see my cassserole along with a large ash glazed teapot he
bought from me a couple of years ago. He said it is one of his favourite
pots of mine. Last night at the wood firing Bruce showed me some of the =
new
work he is making. He said much of it was influenced by my teapot.
So I realized that i was on the right track. It took a potter that I =
admire
to take my work and celebrate it, to convince me that I should stick =
with my
own aesthetic. I am pumped now and know exactly what I need to make for =
the
show. It took Bruce looking at my work and identifying what he liked =
about
it to get me on track about what i like about it. I hope this makes =
sense.
For those of you that have had your work copied, if it is by someone =
that
can make it as well or much better it is indeed the highest form of
flattery.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Lee Love on sun 5 jun 05
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> Bah humbug Tony the sometimes-curmudgeon. As I have said before, the
> human
> race has barely scratched the surface of creative possibility.
We stand on the shoulder's of Giants. Actually, there is a lot of
"novel" crap being made today that has nothing to do with "copies." I am
not so interested in novelty, as I am interested in trying to tap into
the same source as the greatest creative people who have ever lived. It
the hubris and myopic vision of our time, that fails to acknowledge the
grandness of all that has gone on before us. :-( :-)
We can't improve upon the charcoal, iron oxide, and manganese paintings
at Lascaux Cave made 30,000 years ago. We can only hope to draw upon the
same inspiration.
Check out how far we fall from the mark:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/lascaux/en/f-visite.htm
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
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