Randy McCall on thu 9 jun 05
How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Randy
Pottery Web Site
members.tripod.com/~McCallJ/index.html
South Carolina
Paul Herman on thu 9 jun 05
Randy,
You asked:
> How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Not very much money.
There are other reasons to make your own, though. Like knowing what is
in the stuff, or changing color, texture or firing temperature. Clay
that is "too hard" is not a big issue if you are mixing your own. If
there is a dunting problem, you (knowing the clay formula) can adjust
the mix. To my knowlege, no wet clay maker will tell you what you are
working with. For me, the main reason is autonomy.
Good mixing,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://www.greatbasinpottery.com/
----------
>From: Randy McCall
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Mixing your own Clay?
>Date: Thu, Jun 9, 2005, 5:00 AM
>
>
>
> Randy
>
> Pottery Web Site
> members.tripod.com/~McCallJ/index.html
> South Carolina
Bruce Girrell on thu 9 jun 05
Randy McCall asked:
>How much can you save mixing your own clay?
If your concern is cost savings, I doubt that it's really worth your while
to mix your own clay. You still need to buy and ship dry materials unless
you dig and refine your own clay, which involves quite a bit of your time.
Then you need to spend time doing the mixing. You'll probably need to buy a
fairly expensive machine or two to do the mixing and pugging.
The real reason I see to mix your own clay is control. You can create your
own clay body that that has the properties that you want. Scupture,
handbuilding, and throwing all require different clay bodies for optimum
results. You can formulate your clay to do what you want it to do in the
firing - a certain color, resistance to thermal shock, a specific shrinkage
or coefficient of expansion. You can adjust the moisture content just the
way that you want.
Bruce "have fun" Girrell
Kenneth D. Westfall on thu 9 jun 05
You can save nothing in the long run if your time it worth anything. In
dry clay the last time I figured it out it was costing me around 9 cents a
pound. Then you figure in your time. It takes me all day to mix up 10 to
15 bags of clay that weigh about 75 pounds a bag. So 750 to 1125 lb per 8
to 10 hours because I'm slow and have already ruptured two disk comes to
112 lb an hour at say $45 comes to .49 cent a lb. I have wasted a compleat
day doing something I don't like to do at all that will last me a week and
half and then i have to do it all over again. So just think of all the
nicer pots I could have made if I had just called laguna or Columbus and
order a ton of clay which only takes me half an hour to unload from a truck.
Then there is the other side of the story. How much time did I save
because the clay company decided that all chemicals were equal ,changed
there formal and I threw 6 weeks of pots with clay my glazes will all
shivered off because of the change. Hmm?
Not sure there is a very clear answer to this question.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
kenneth@pinehillpottery.com
http://www.pinehillpottery.com
Vince Pitelka on thu 9 jun 05
> How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Randy -
That's not really the reason to do it. If you pay yourself a good wage for
the time, and factor in the dedicated storage space for the raw materials
and the room for mixing equipment, you probably don't save much money at
all. The best reason to mix your own clay is if you want to control the
clay yourself, and if you enjoy using a variety of different claybodies.
Lots of potters like to control the whole process from purchasing the raw
materials. As you have seen on this list, a very common discussion thread
involves problems with commercially produced clay. I think that the major
clay manufacturers sell a very consistently high-quality product, but there
are inevitable problems. Of course the same will be true if you mix your
own clay. We mix all our own clay here at the Craft Center because we want
our students to have the experience and to really learn about claybodies.
But when I was doing production throwing in Northern California several
decades ago I bought all my clay from Westwood, and had consistent good luck
with them. They are one of the companies that was gobbled up by Laguna.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
URL Krueger on thu 9 jun 05
On Thursday 09 June 2005 05:00 am, Randy McCall wrote:
> How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Randy,
If you consider that wet pugged clay is about 30% water by
weight then 30% of what you pay for in a bag of clay is the
water and 70% is for the actual clay. If you paid $1 per
pound for the wet clay then you actually paid $1 / 0.7 or
$1.43 per pound for dry clay. ( You should substitute the
actual $ / lb you pay. I just used $1 / lb for convience.)
My supplier charges 10% more for dry clay body over wet.
Using the same $1 per pound for wet, buying the clay dry
would cost $1 X 1.1 or $1.10 per pound.
I have looked at what it would cost for me to buy the
various components to mix my own formula and find that
there would be little, if any, savings by doing that. And
that doesn't even include any labor time or equipment.
To me the reason for mixing your own clay would be to get
the formula you want, get the degree of moisture you want
and to ensure consistency and quality. If you buy clay in
a large enough quantity you could have your supplier make
up your formula to your specifications. However there
still might be some cross contamination from a previous
batch and they might not catch some of the problems you
would, such as large chunks or foreign materials.
In summary, since clay is relatively inexpensive I don't
think cost should be a factor in your decision as much as
quality. Unless you use 20 tons of clay a year or more in
which case a few cents per pound might add up.
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Snail Scott on fri 10 jun 05
At 08:00 AM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Depends on how much your time is worth. ;)
It also depends on what you would pay in
freight. Shipping water costs money -
what's the convenience worth to you? More
for some folks than others, I suspect.
-Snail
Ron Roy on sat 11 jun 05
>Randy,
>
>You asked:
>
>> How much can you save mixing your own clay?
Hi Randy - complicated subject - I'll try to answer in three parts.
If you have a clay maker nearby that screens raw materials and tests raw
materials and the clays they make - and will let you see their test results
- and has some one working for them who understands what to do to keep the
clays relatively stable - then there is not much to recommend your mixing
your own.
We also have to assume - if you mix your own - that you would be able to do
at least as good a job of body formulation as your clay maker - thats not
so easy to assess. Most potters simply do not understand much about body
formulation - and going by most of the recipes out there is not a very good
option.
If you mix your own you will always pay more for the raw materials than
your clay mixer will - you need the space to store and mix clay, you need
to buy equipment - and then there is the dust you will need to deal with.
Consider what happens when a tuck arrives - with a couple skids of bagged
raw materials - can the truck get close to your door? Will the truck driver
help you unload? Do you have a fork lift?
There is a third option - but it takes some serious study on your part -
you develop the clay body - using materials available at a reputable clay
supplier/mixer - and they mix the clay for you to your specifications.
You do the testing and reformulation as needed - and you swallow the clay
if it's it's not right.
The more you know about clay bodies - the more likely you will be able to
deal with a dealer or clay maker - you may even find you eventually know
more than they do - which can be profitable in the long run.
RR
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Steve Mills on sat 11 jun 05
Having control over the recipe for me wins hands down!
I make my clay up as slop, pour it into *trouser legs*, and leave it to
sweat. When it's *right* I bag it, and knead up as much as I need for
each session. Compared to pugging several hundred pounds in one go, I
think the way I do it is pretty lo-cost and lo-effort.
Can't be bad!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Kenneth D. Westfall writes
>You can save nothing in the long run if your time it worth anything. In
>dry clay the last time I figured it out it was costing me around 9 cents =
>a
>pound. Then you figure in your time. It takes me all day to mix up 10 t=
>o
>15 bags of clay that weigh about 75 pounds a bag. So 750 to 1125 lb per =
>8
>to 10 hours because I'm slow and have already ruptured two disk comes to
>112 lb an hour at say $45 comes to .49 cent a lb. I have wasted a comple=
>at
>day doing something I don't like to do at all that will last me a week a=
>nd
>half and then i have to do it all over again. So just think of all the
>nicer pots I could have made if I had just called laguna or Columbus and
>order a ton of clay which only takes me half an hour to unload from a tru=
>ck.
>Then there is the other side of the story. How much time did I save
>because the clay company decided that all chemicals were equal ,changed
>there formal and I threw 6 weeks of pots with clay my glazes will all
>shivered off because of the change. Hmm?
>Not sure there is a very clear answer to this question.
>
>
>
>Kenneth D. Westfall
>Pine Hill Pottery
>R.D. #2 Box 6AA
>Harrisville, WV 26362
>kenneth@pinehillpottery.com
>http://www.pinehillpottery.com
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
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