Elizabeth Priddy on thu 9 jun 05
I think experience with baking, culturally, is a thing that seperates
women and men potters. Stereotypes abound, but it is usually the
womwnfolk that bake and cook. And what you learn is that a recipe
is rarely the thing that will get you good product.
Give ten women the same recipe and you will get ten different dishes.
Give ten chemists the same formulae and you will get identical compounds,
or you ought to in a perfect world.
The ingredients, the prep thereof, the feel for how your oven works and
knowing things like where the hot spots are, which pan always sticks,
that all grandma's recipes are off on the water cause she measured with
a tin cup with a big dent in it, that parchment-wax-and-cello are not all
the same...
And little girls are still sometimes and traditionally always shunted off to the
kitchen as soon as they can toddle, and we learn that fire and ingredients
don't always go according to how it is written.
Nobody had to tell us that. Seems to be news to some big dogs.
And a preference for electric ovens, statistically. We don't do that as
a gender because we are afraid of your big bad wood kilns. We know that
better control and function by one person working alone is acheived most
quickly with electric.
I am experimenting with fire, chimney kiln, raku, tiny one man wood...
I already know electric. I have known electric for 20 years. I will never
go big on the kilns, not enough of a joiner to have to ask if they are ready
for me to stoke and wait for a group opinion as to why it is stalling and
what to do. My kiln, my process, my schedule.
And yet all the famous potters, the movers and shakers have been men.
Bernard Leach can't paint. Voulkos makes things that are ugly and that
would only appeal to a fire ant. Soldner is vulgar and coarse. I really could go
on for a while here, but I will hold back. And don't even get me started on
teapots with their little penises as the primary icon of ceramic work. [I prefer
basket forms with their one breast sticking off the top.]
Now I admit that Beth S-Cavener and Ken Fergusen and Ron Myers have
'special' feelings for rabbits and so many other things cross gender expectations.
Sometimes the cultural and gender roles really do affect us. I respect men and women
alike but celebrate our truly different skill sets. Until society treats us as equals
and some of the men start giving credit to the women in their pasts and women
start getting jobs with status according to their experience, I will still have a
bit of a chip on my shoulder about it.
And I notice when I hear men chatting about their influences and see a list with
zero estrogen. I hear them talk about women regularly, but when they get to
their lists and start talking about their chums, it turns into a boys club again.
How about some affirmative action. I'ld love to see our big dogs offer some lists of
women only that have influenced their work, not their personal lives or how great it is
to see women participate...but real credit for things you do today that you did not do
before you met THAT woman.
We all know who the men are already. Many of us also know all those men and have seen
how they act in workshops, whose questions they answer and the tone of such, and
who they sit with after class and network with.
Ah, the stories shared when the menfolk go off to smoke their pots.
Elizabeth
Wondering what I will tell my boy and how I can let him know that Mommy is just as vital
to his quality of life as his Daddy's paycheck.
mel jacobson wrote:
the combination of potter/chemist
is the recipe for
success. so many want a chart, a
graph....something from a gas
company...`how many btu's do i actually need?`
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Kate Johnson on thu 9 jun 05
Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
>
> And yet all the famous potters, the movers and shakers have been men.
> Bernard Leach can't paint. Voulkos makes things that are ugly and that
> would only appeal to a fire ant. Soldner is vulgar and coarse. I really
> could go
> on for a while here, but I will hold back. And don't even get me started
> on
> teapots with their little penises as the primary icon of ceramic work. [I
> prefer
> basket forms with their one breast sticking off the top.]
> And I notice when I hear men chatting about their influences and see a
> list with
> zero estrogen. I hear them talk about women regularly, but when they get
> to
> their lists and start talking about their chums, it turns into a boys club
> again.
Ah, memories of my days in the adult ed classes at KCAI...
>
> How about some affirmative action. I'ld love to see our big dogs offer
> some lists of
> women only that have influenced their work, not their personal lives or
> how great it is
> to see women participate...but real credit for things you do today that
> you did not do
> before you met THAT woman.
>
> We all know who the men are already. Many of us also know all those men
> and have seen
> how they act in workshops, whose questions they answer and the tone of
> such, and
> who they sit with after class and network with.
>
> Ah, the stories shared when the menfolk go off to smoke their pots.
Elizabeth, I have told you this OFFlist before, now for an ONLIST brava--I
LOVE YOUR POSTS. You GO girl.
Generally speaking, I've never been a feminist per se, 'cause I never really
felt I needed to--that's just me, and a personal outlook. I was brought up
by a terrific man who taught me I could do anything I was willing to work
hard enough for--didn't matter my sex, my age, or which side of the tracks I
grew up on, God bless my sainted, if flawed, Dad. (Yeh, ok, he WAS a man,
why do you ask?)
So what I'm saying is that basically I have tunnel vision. I pay attention
to what I'M working on, what I want to say with it, and when I see a piece
from someone else that I love, whether ancient or modern, I just pay
attention to the piece, not the potter. Sure as hell not their _sex_.
I couldn't any more tell you what a Leach or Voulkos or Ferguson pot looks
like than the man in the moon, unless we're talking a random piece they did
35 years ago. I don't keep up with The Scene. I literally don't notice, at
least 8 times out of 10, when looking at images in a book, I'm staring
happily at the pot. Never been one for hero worship, just a heck of a lot
of respect for craft, for art. (My favorite potter, however, is Rebecca
Koop.)
But just because I'm not cowed or influenced by the Big Boys doesn't mean I
don't think the fantastic women of pottery don't deserve every bit as much
credit. (Wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that we invented the
craft.) So keep reminding us, Elizabeth, as long as you perceive the
need--I know it's there, I'm just up to my elbows in my work, with a bad
case of tunnel vision....
Best--
Kate Johnson
graphicart@epsi.net
http://www.cathyjohnson.info/
Art, History, Nature and More at Cathy Johnson's Cafepress--
http://www.cafepress.com/cathy_johnson/
Graphics/Fine Arts Press--
http://www.epsi.net/graphic/
elca branman on thu 9 jun 05
When certain names surface in Clayart ,conversations,dogmas,
interchanges, revelations, whatever, I will always read them first and
then re read them again,carefully,because some people are infinitely
more generous with their allotment of figurative chocolate chips per
cookie and
Elizabeth Priddy ALWAYS gives good value both in content and in
style,so thank you , dear Elizabeth,for your words.
Biology and maternity deeply affect women in the arts, as well as a
continued and I believe, unconscious bonding by men, who are more
comfortable with the masculine patterns of behavior..clearer to them
than the way women incorporate feeling and thinking in their
responses.
.
(Gentleman,please..this is NOT male bashing..There are differences in
the way we work and think, whether its clay or politics..no need to
defend. I have loved men all my life and will continue to defend their
lovability forever, while always demanding equal respect)
I was fortunate enough to be introduced to clay by Karen Karnes who
has always made pots of great internal integrity. The drama is in
their strength and her consistency over the years plus her contiuing
growth:She has never stayed where she was because it "worked". Her
pots don't scream "Look at me, how big and bad and bold and ground
breaking and clever and bad I am".; they are simply fully present in
their pure dignity and beauty.
I don't worry a whit about the Priddy boy baby (name ?)growing up with
respect for women's strength and quality;He will have taken it in
with his mother's milk and he will learn her strength
Things HAVE changed and women are clearly more active in the work
world as well as the home, but those "big dogs" who didn't have
mothers fortunate enough to have had career choice can now opt to give
more than lip service to respect for the equality of women's
efforts.. Take Elizabeth's challenge as quoted below..
Elca Branman
On 6/9/05, Elizabeth Priddy wrote<-
> How about some affirmative action. I'ld love to see our big dogs offer s=
ome lists of
> women only that have influenced their work, not their personal lives or h=
ow great it is
> to see women participate...but real credit for things you do today that y=
ou did not do
> before you met THAT woman.
>=20
> We all know who the men are already. Many of us also know all those men =
and have seen
> how they act in workshops, whose questions they answer and the tone of su=
ch, and
> who they sit with after class and network with.
>=20
> Ah, the stories shared when the menfolk go off to smoke their pots.
>=20
> Elizabeth
>=20
> Wondering what I will tell my boy and how I can let him know that Mommy i=
s just as vital
> to his quality of life as his Daddy's paycheck.
>> =20
And again...thank you
Elca Branman
Brian O'Neill on fri 10 jun 05
I gave myself a day before deciding to respond this time. It pushed
buttons for me to be sure, but I was curious to see if this post would
become a pot stirrer. I see no men have weighed in yet, so let me stick
my head into the collective lionesses mouth. Wiser heads of my
particular gender persuasion will probably let this pass, avoiding a
cascade of emails "enlightening" them on women's issues. Equality of
the sexes is an ongoing struggle to be sure, but not all men are 1) the
enemy, 2) uniformed, 3) unappreciative of the strength it takes to
overcome oppression, be it sexual, racial, economic, etc.
I don't want to disrespect you CHIP Elizabeth, but get over yourself,
and this presumption, that men don't get it!
I don't presume my view is shared by all other men, but I'll speak for
men that consciously strive to better the situation and not repeat
mistakes of the past. From my perspective, your post is mildly arrogant
and sexist. It's been said that when an oppressed people overthrow
their oppressors, they often adopt the same methods of control. I
applaud your fervor for fairness and equality, but your email is
lacking in both. That you criticize the "big dogs" for learning and
sharing information between themselves (the boys club), but hold this
up as a binding force that women possess -- a double standard and "no
win" situation for men.
If the tone in your email was taken by a man, regarding "those women",
do you think it would be tolerated by any woman with a shred of
feminism in them? Equality is elusive, not just because men don't get
it.
I'm glad you had a son. I'm sure he will inherit your strength, if not
his daddy's checkbook.
Regards,
Brian
Brian Thomas O'Neill
Functional | Sculptural Ceramic Vessels
2985 Goshen Rd | Bellingham, WA | 98226 | 360 592 3164
brianoneill@cablespeed.com
On Jun 9, 2005, at 4:30 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> I think experience with baking, culturally, is a thing that seperates
> women and men potters. Stereotypes abound, but it is usually the
> womwnfolk that bake and cook. And what you learn is that a recipe
> is rarely the thing that will get you good product.
>
> Give ten women the same recipe and you will get ten different dishes.
> Give ten chemists the same formulae and you will get identical
> compounds,
> or you ought to in a perfect world.
>
> The ingredients, the prep thereof, the feel for how your oven works and
> knowing things like where the hot spots are, which pan always sticks,
> that all grandma's recipes are off on the water cause she measured with
> a tin cup with a big dent in it, that parchment-wax-and-cello are not
> all
> the same...
>
> And little girls are still sometimes and traditionally always shunted
> off to the
> kitchen as soon as they can toddle, and we learn that fire and
> ingredients
> don't always go according to how it is written.
>
> Nobody had to tell us that. Seems to be news to some big dogs.
> And a preference for electric ovens, statistically. We don't do that
> as
> a gender because we are afraid of your big bad wood kilns. We know
> that
> better control and function by one person working alone is acheived
> most
> quickly with electric.
>
> I am experimenting with fire, chimney kiln, raku, tiny one man wood...
> I already know electric. I have known electric for 20 years. I will
> never
> go big on the kilns, not enough of a joiner to have to ask if they are
> ready
> for me to stoke and wait for a group opinion as to why it is stalling
> and
> what to do. My kiln, my process, my schedule.
>
> And yet all the famous potters, the movers and shakers have been men.
> Bernard Leach can't paint. Voulkos makes things that are ugly and that
> would only appeal to a fire ant. Soldner is vulgar and coarse. I
> really could go
> on for a while here, but I will hold back. And don't even get me
> started on
> teapots with their little penises as the primary icon of ceramic work.
> [I prefer
> basket forms with their one breast sticking off the top.]
>
> Now I admit that Beth S-Cavener and Ken Fergusen and Ron Myers have
> 'special' feelings for rabbits and so many other things cross gender
> expectations.
> Sometimes the cultural and gender roles really do affect us. I
> respect men and women
> alike but celebrate our truly different skill sets. Until society
> treats us as equals
> and some of the men start giving credit to the women in their pasts
> and women
> start getting jobs with status according to their experience, I will
> still have a
> bit of a chip on my shoulder about it.
>
> And I notice when I hear men chatting about their influences and see a
> list with
> zero estrogen. I hear them talk about women regularly, but when they
> get to
> their lists and start talking about their chums, it turns into a boys
> club again.
>
> How about some affirmative action. I'ld love to see our big dogs
> offer some lists of
> women only that have influenced their work, not their personal lives
> or how great it is
> to see women participate...but real credit for things you do today
> that you did not do
> before you met THAT woman.
>
> We all know who the men are already. Many of us also know all those
> men and have seen
> how they act in workshops, whose questions they answer and the tone of
> such, and
> who they sit with after class and network with.
>
> Ah, the stories shared when the menfolk go off to smoke their pots.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> Wondering what I will tell my boy and how I can let him know that
> Mommy is just as vital
> to his quality of life as his Daddy's paycheck.
>
>
>
>
>
> mel jacobson wrote:
> the combination of potter/chemist
> is the recipe for
> success. so many want a chart, a
> graph....something from a gas
> company...`how many btu's do i actually need?`
>
> ---------------------------------
> Discover Yahoo!
> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
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