Charanjiv Sachar on wed 15 jun 05
Hello everyone,
After going through a lot of archives while researching which kiln to buy I finally purchased the L&L e23T with 3" brick and the vent. The kiln got delivered yesterday and I have spent most of last night just looking at it, spell bound by its beauty. I hope my wife is not reading this,.. she was wondering if it was like having a live-in mistress especially after I named her too, "Bijli" meaning electricity in Hindi.
Thank you all for your direct/indirect input. The archives have been such a valuable source of information.
So after all the excitement, I was confused by two things. I saw some reference to this in the archives but couldn't pin point to what the answer is.
The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when the vent is ON. From archives I have seen several people mentioning to keep the top peep hole open and the vent ON for bisque and saw mixed answers for glazing. There were some emails by Ron Roy too, but I just couldn't see what the solution was. I would really like some clarification on this. Keep peep holes open through out? or for certain time? for bisque? for glaze? vent ON or OFF? Also I don't understand how can one see the witness cones without opening the peep holes. I guess you turn the vent off, open the peep hole, look at the cone, plug in the peep hole and turn on the vent.
The other question I have is for the lid. I couldn't see any kind of latch for the lid to keep it shut during the firing. We had a Skutt at the guild earlier and if you forgot to latch the lid shut, it would sometimes lift up by an inch or two during the firing. I hope that is not expected when you fire a L&L. Or does one have to weigh down the lid with something else? May be this won't even be an issue when I fire, but I thought it didn't hurt to check before I start pulling my hair while doing my first firing. I am aiming to do my first firing this weekend.
I would be very thankful for all your responses.
Charan
Creative with Clay
32706 5th Ave SW
Federal Way, WA 98023
Tel: 253 241 2245
Email: creativewithclay@yahoo.com
www.creativewithclay.com
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Cindi Anderson on wed 15 jun 05
Hi Charaon
Keep the vent on all the time, for bisque and glaze. You can take out a
peep hole plug to look at the cones, it is just not recommended to leave it
out a lot or you might get drafts. And since you have the vent to pull
moisture out, you don't need an open peep hole.
Kilns don't come with latches anymore (actually I didn't know they ever
did!) You may see a small gap at the higher temperatures, but probably not
an inch. I think on older kilns they made the hinge tight, then when it
heated up you would get a big gap in front. Now the whole lid is designed
to "float" so it still sits evenly with no large gaps.
Cindi
Reno, NV
----- Original Message -----
> The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when the vent
> is ON. From archives I have seen several people mentioning to keep the top
> peep hole open and the vent ON for bisque and saw mixed answers for
> glazing. There were some emails by Ron Roy too, but I just couldn't see
> what the solution was. I would really like some clarification on this.
> Keep peep holes open through out? or for certain time? for bisque? for
> glaze? vent ON or OFF? Also I don't understand how can one see the witness
> cones without opening the peep holes. I guess you turn the vent off, open
> the peep hole, look at the cone, plug in the peep hole and turn on the
> vent.
> The other question I have is for the lid. I couldn't see any kind of latch
> for the lid to keep it shut during the firing. We had a Skutt at the guild
> earlier and if you forgot to latch the lid shut, it would sometimes lift
> up by an inch or two during the firing.
Maurice Weitman on wed 15 jun 05
Hello, Charan,
Congrats on your new Bijli kiln. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
As you've noticed, there are many varied opinions about keeping peeps
open for venting, both on and off clayart. Here's mine:
L&L apparently feels that there are enough "leaks" between the
sections and the lid and the top that leaving the peep open isn't
necessary to provide enough "make-up air" to allow the vent to
evacuate nasties effectively.
You will have to decide that for yourself. I decided for my Bailey
kiln to make holes either in the lid (as I believe Skutt suggests, or
some notches/holes near the top of the sides.
Even if it's not enough air, I'd vote against leaving the peep(s)
open... too much air coming in from one place ESPECIALLY if you have
a cone pack nearby.
And checking the progress of cones should only take a few seconds, so
open the peep, check them out, close the peep (while leaving the vent
on).
I leave my vent on for the whole firing, bisque and glaze. Properly
designed and installed (and adjusted, if needed) vents shouldn't draw
enough air to make a measurable difference in the rate of cooling.
Lids will warp SLIGHTLY during high heat, but an inch??? I'd say
that was over the top, so to speak. There should be no need (or way
to) latch a lid closed on a new, well-made top-loading kiln, and I
believe L&L makes fine kilns.
Enjoy your new friend!
Regards,
Maurice
jesse hull on wed 15 jun 05
Charanjiv,
I've had a 3" brick L&L w/ 3-zone computer for almost
4 yrs now and I love it.
1st, concerning the sypholes: it's not that strict.
The kiln may pull air more uniformly (through all the
"leaks", where the kiln sections and lid meet) when
the spies are closed. But, basically you just don't
NEED to keep your spyholes open, or drill holes in the
lid (as other manufacturers suggest) for the vent to
work properly; however, I sometimes do keep them all
open when doing luster firings with great results.
Popping out the plug for a few moments when viewing
your witness cones will cause no ill effects.
2nd, concerning the lid: I have never seen the lid
lift during a firing. If you purchased the 3" brick,
then the lid will be 3" as well, and it's heavy enough
to keep closed. No latch has ever been needed for any
of my firings. I know people that even hit ^12 with
theirs, - and no problems.
There is a phone # in the instruction book for
technical support, or you can call L&L's #, and
they'll give it to you. It's toll free, the tech's
name is Rob, and I've had many an insightful and
educational conversation with him.
You should give him a call with any concerns, ideas,
or questions.
~jesse
~jessehull.
www.jessehull.com
www.latticestructures.com
Arnold Howard on wed 15 jun 05
Charan, I suggest keeping the vent on and all peephole plugs inserted for
all firings. I believe your vent system is similar to Orton's KilnVent,
which requires that all peephole plugs are left inserted. If the peepholes
are open, the firing chamber will lack the negative pressure needed to
prevent fumes from leaking out of the kiln.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
arnoldhoward@att.net / www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charanjiv Sachar"
> The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when the vent
> is ON. From archives I have seen several people mentioning to keep the top
> peep hole open and the vent ON for bisque and saw mixed answers for
> glazing. There were some emails by Ron Roy too, but I just couldn't see
> what the solution was. I would really like some clarification on this.
> Keep peep holes open through out? or for certain time? for bisque? for
> glaze? vent ON or OFF? Also I don't understand how can one see the witness
> cones without opening the peep holes. I guess you turn the vent off, open
> the peep hole, look at the cone, plug in the peep hole and turn on the
> vent.
Snail Scott on wed 15 jun 05
At 08:30 AM 6/15/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when the vent
is ON. From archives I have seen several people mentioning to keep the top
peep hole open...
If this is brand-new kiln shipped with a factory-installed
vent, follow its instructions. Most folks are working
with retrofitted vents on older kilns not designed for
them, so the practice would naturally be a bit different
for each. Do as the manufacturer recommends for yours.
>...I couldn't see any kind of latch for the lid to keep it shut during the
firing. We had a Skutt at the guild earlier and if you forgot to latch the
lid shut, it would sometimes lift up by an inch or two during the firing...
A top-loading kiln should never need a latch or a weight
to keep the lid shut. It sounds like the one at your guild
may have had one added because the lid hinge had broken
and perhaps been inappropriately repaired. Kiln-lid hinges
are almost always made with a sliding joint to allow the
lid to 'float' during firing and adjust itself to heat
expansion during firing. Lids that open up during firing do
so because the hinge has gotten jammed and won't 'float'
anymore, or because its counterweight or spring (if it has
one) is way too much for it.
Old kiln lids often develop gaps at the front due to abrasion
of the bricks, but if your brand-new lid opens up more than
a tiny amount during firing, call L&L right away and get it
fixed, 'cause somethin' ain't right! ;)
-Snail
William & Susan Schran User on wed 15 jun 05
On 6/15/05 11:30 AM, "Charanjiv Sachar" wrote:
> The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when the vent=
is
> ON. From archives I have seen several people mentioning to keep the top p=
eep
> hole open and the vent ON for bisque and saw mixed answers for glazing.
L&L instructions indicate that you can leave in the spy hole plugs with the
vent on as there are enough gaps between the sections & between lid and
wall. You would remove the spy hole plug to look at the cones, then put it
back in after looking.
I have placed insulating fiber between the sections of my L&L kiln, so I
leave the top spy hole plug out anytime the vent motor is running.
Also put witness cones at the bottom of kiln to check how even the firing
is.=20
>We had a Skutt at the guild earlier and if you forgot to latch the lid shu=
t, it
would sometimes lift up by an inch or two during the firing. I hope that is=
not
expected when you fire a L&L. Or does one have to weigh down the lid with
something else?<
The lid will deflect as the kiln heats up, meaning the edges of the lid wil=
l
raise up a little creating a bit more of a gap between lid and wall - this
is normal. The lid will flatten out when it cools down.
DO NOT EVER PUT ANYTHING ON THE LID! It's a bad habit to get into.
Bill, in Fredericksburg, VA where the heat index was over 100=B0F yesterday.
Yes, I know some on this forum put pots on the lid to dry - IMHO, still a
bad habit.=20
Lou Roess on wed 15 jun 05
On Jun 15, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Charanjiv Sachar wrote:
>
> The vent system indicates not to open the peep holes at all when
> the vent is ON.
Trust L&L . Since they say leave the plugs in, that's what you
should do A lot of the information on Clayart is for other kilns,
not yours..
> Also I don't understand how can one see the witness cones without
> opening the peep holes.
You don't need to see witness cones. In fact you won't be using
witness cones. The kiln is all electronic. I put some self standing
cones on each shelf somewhere just to know how the kiln is firing but
I only see them after the firing is done and cooled.
> The other question I have is for the lid. I couldn't see any kind
> of latch for the lid to keep it shut during the firing.
There's no latch. The kiln lid will move a bit as it expands and you
will see red between the lid and the body but that's expected.
> . Or does one have to weigh down the lid with something else?
Don't weight down the lid - it's supposed to be able to move.
>
If you have other questions call Robert Baty their tech support
person. The 800 number is on the information packet that came with
the kiln. He's very knowledgeable and can talk you through any fine
tuning over the phone. Be sure and do the test firing with the kiln
empty as recommended in the manual before you fire a load of your
pieces. This will let you know if the electronics need tweaking.
Mine did but it was very easy with Rob's help.
I was in the same boat when I first got my kiln- very tentative
- can I really do this, etc. I was amazed and delighted at how easy
it is and I am getting great results from my L&L. You won't be sorry
you got it.
Good luck,
Lou in Colorado
John Anthony on wed 15 jun 05
Hi Charan-
I have had my L&L for a year and a half or so- I fire with the vent
on ( I'm using an Orton), and the peeps plugged, bisque or glaze.
I've never had a problem. I ileave the vent on if I'm firing down in a
glaze firing, but I turn it off when a bisque firing has reached
temperature.
Orton recommends drilling three small (5/16" I think) holes in the lid
to let air in. I'm guessing that he peeps would let in far too much,
and lower the effective pull of the fan. I don't know if the L&L system
has you drill holes in the lid. The L&L website illustration of the
vent system seems to show the peeps plugged. I would check with them
about holes in the lid.
Cheers
John Anthony
http://www.redhillpottery.com
William & Susan Schran User on thu 16 jun 05
On 6/15/05 12:02 PM, "Maurice Weitman" wrote:
> Even if it's not enough air, I'd vote against leaving the peep(s)
> open... too much air coming in from one place ESPECIALLY if you have
> a cone pack nearby.
I fire crystalline glazes in a small L&L (J18X) with vent mounted on bottom
section, 3/8" hole through kiln wall and top spy hole plug left out anytime
vent is running.
Each firing has a cone pack in front of top spy hole and at bottom spy hole.
Looking at the cone packs after firing, they look almost identical.
I would agree that there probably some affect on the top cones from the
incoming air, but I have not noticed enough difference between top & bottom
cones packs to change my process.
FYI - For this kiln, the vent system and my firing schedule, I've found
propping up the bottom shelf on 3" posts gives me even firings.
Bill
Carol Tripp on thu 16 jun 05
Regarding the use of witness cones and needing to open the peeps to see
them:
I think it is important to observe cone behaviour during glaze firings.
Bisque firings - I just have the cones in there and see at the end what
happened, UNLESS I am using brand new thermocouples and or elements or I've
made some other big change.
It only takes a few moments to open the peep and gaze in (wearing proper
eyewear of course) and check what is going on heatwork-wise. The few
moments will not make a hoot worth of difference to the inside temp of the
kiln and the knowledge you will gain gives you control over your kiln as you
near top temp and soaking. If you just put in the cones, fire and then
observe them after everything is all over, it's too late to make any changes
to that particular load. What if you set the top temp too high and the soak
too long and all your cones slump? If you had been checking the cones near
the top of the firing cycle, you would have seen things heading that way and
could have taken steps to ramp forward into your fire down. Or what if you
programmed too short a firing and not even the lowest cone has fallen when
your kiln finishes? All that heat work will be lost and you'll have to
start all over again.
I fire to ^6 so I set up three self supporting cones ^5 ^6^7 in a row
heading back into the kiln. ^5 is nearest the peep and facing right to bend
that way. ^6 is second in line and set to bend left and ^7 is last and
furthest from the peep and set to bend right if things have gone on too
long. Sometimes cones are difficult to see and so by setting them up like
this every single time, I can always distinguish between the cones and see
what is happening. I program in a lenghty soak and keep and eye on the
cones and when I see ^6 bend just so, I ramp forward to the fire down.
(Read that method on Clayart courtesy Ron Roy)
Maybe you are just going to use one of the four programs for bisquing or
glazing until you figure out your own firing schedules. I'd still set up
the lines of three cones for observation in front of at least one peephole.
(I set these rows up in front of the bottom and middle peep hole.) Take
control, be around for the firing.
As for the vent, I have an L&L kiln with a Bailey vent and I've fired with
the top peep out and with the top peep in and it doesn't appear to me to
make a difference. I turn off the vent following the soak - bisque or
glaze.
Best regards,
Carol
Dubai, UAE
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Snail Scott on thu 16 jun 05
>On Jun 15, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Charanjiv Sachar wrote:
>> Also I don't understand how can one see the witness cones without
>> opening the peep holes.
At 02:50 PM 6/15/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>You don't need to see witness cones. In fact you won't be using
>witness cones. The kiln is all electronic.
I like to use witness cones in all kilns, as a 'reality
check' on the thermocouple, as well as to test for
variations among the different levels of the kiln.
'Keeping the peepholes shut' doesn't mean never opening
them for a look, it just means don't leave them open
constantly. Too-frequent peeks (or leaving them open)
can cause a cold draft across the cones, affecting their
accuracy, but an occasional good long look is just fine.
-Snail
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