William & Susan Schran User on tue 5 jul 05
On 7/5/05 1:39 PM, "Fabienne McMillan" wrote:
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?"
Unattended is leaving the premises from where one could easily check on the
progress of the firing kiln.
I believe one would not have to check/visually look at the kiln all the
time, could be left for hours at a time, but would be present to the extent
if something were to go wrong, one could be on hand to deal with the
situation - say, put out a fire.
I do crystalline glaze firings. I check the kiln about an hour after it's
turned on, then hourly until I expect cones to start falling, then I'll
check often, maybe every 10 minutes. After dropping temperature, then
reaching my holding temperature, I'll check every 10 minutes for about a 1/2
hour, then every hour.
After one learns how their kiln fires, it's often not necessary to check
often, but it's best to be around for the possible burning smell....
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Jim Willett on tue 5 jul 05
Ok, we'll add our two cents worth to this one. We know there are lots of
you guys lurking our there just like us. We fire our three kilns (Cone Art
yay!) whenever we have a load ready to go be it bisque or glaze. That
means we don't sit and baby sit our kilns. My background is industrial
instrumentation and mining prep plant maintenance. I know systems and yes
one will fail once in a while, however I am not going to lose sleep over
it. We have fired our kilns automatically for respectively 12 years (7
cubic foot single zone Orton controller), 4 years (10 cu ft Bartlett
Controller) and 1.5 years (16 cu ft Bartlett controller) with no
catastrophic failures. The worst is an open thermocouple or element.
FTH...failure to heat. The Potter Brumfield relays Cone Art uses are
industrial standard relays that handle all the Black Box switching running
your life everywhere. I have never had one stick shut in an industrial
situation in 25 years of instrumentation experience. The contacts may fry
and fail or the coils may open up from failure but these are fail safe
failures. We find it a bit incongrous that in the 21st Century everyone
is sitting around watching their electric kilns fire. We are very aware of
operating costs, and time is money. Let the computer do it. We have just
ordered another 16 cu ft Cone Art oval (yay Cone Art) and it will be fired
the same way as it's brothers. Daily and automatically. The absolute worst
we could ever see happening in a proper installation with a three zone
controller is one zone over firing but the controller will still kill the
firing at an average temperature of your final setting. If the controller
fails, a thermocouple fails, an element fails, a relay fails, the system
shuts down and you under fire.
Let's hear it from a few more of you production lurkers out there. You
know who you are!
Jim Willett and Cindy Clarke
Out of the Fire Studio
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
http://www.outofthefirestudio.ca
http://www.howtomakepottery.com
blog: http://potblog.outofthefirestudio.com
http://www.rockymountaindragons.com
Fabienne McMillan on tue 5 jul 05
Hello folks,
I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
definition of "unattended?" Do you all stare at the
bugger for the x hours? God forbid it should be a
crystalline firing. Do you hold going to the
bathroom, too, just in case? Or is it okay to leave
for 5, 10, 15 minutes or 1 hour for lunch so long as
you are in the same room, building, town... ?
Go ahead, shoot. Let's see if one of us is left
standing. Sounds like some religious tenant.
Fabienne McMillan
They teach anything in universities today.
You can major in mud pies -- Orson Welles
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Andie Plamondon on tue 5 jul 05
I have a kiln shed in a little building ext to my house. Sometimes I candle
the kiln overnight - and I guess I'm not watching it with my eyes closed.
During firings, I use a slow firing schedule, so I go out & check the kiln
every 1/2 hour to hour. I don't leave the propery while I'm firing, though.
I know how long a firing should take, and plan to be home. I have had
firings (2) where both the cones in the conepack and the sitter cone
malfunctioned, and one of those times the timer had been bumped during a
turn up and didn't shut down, either. I personally don't depend on anything
but myself to watch my kiln.
A friend of mine has a digital controller for her kiln, she sets it and goes
to bed. Her perogative.
I knew a potter who also ran his kilns at night - he had all sorts of
stories about coming down for a glass of water in the middle of the night to
discover his kilns overfiring, his cones malfunctioning, etc - he thought
they were funny stories, I didn't.
I'll be doing firings for my classes at the Art Institute, and I will
probably stay there the whole time, or go run errands in between turn ups.
It'll be tough.
:) Andie Plamondon
Handful of Earth Pottery
www.handfulofearth.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabienne McMillan"
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?" Do you all stare at the
> bugger for the x hours? God forbid it should be a
> crystalline firing. Do you hold going to the
> bathroom, too, just in case? Or is it okay to leave
> for 5, 10, 15 minutes or 1 hour for lunch so long as
> you are in the same room, building, town... ?
Avril Farley on tue 5 jul 05
Hi Fabienne
Crystalline - well that's me. I tend to fire at night starting early =
evening. Check the kiln every two hours or so to take a reading and =
make sure elements perfoming as they should - check again towards speed =
up time for last two hours before soak. Go to bed. Get up two hours =
later check temp wait for changeover, hang about a it, but not long =
enough to be fumed to death, go back to bed. Get up 4 - 5 hours later =
depending on soak - voila - kiln off. check cooling, close up kiln, go =
back to bed. That is my idea of a supervised firing. Can't stare at =
the wretched kiln all that time, would be de oxygenated in no time flat.
Glad you are back in the world of ceramics, knew you through your web =
site, then via Tom Buck - happy new marriage
Avril in the forest UK
Arnold Howard on tue 5 jul 05
A kiln could fire at full rate if a relay locked on, a thermocouple failed,
or the contacts in a switch stuck in a single-switch kiln.
Estimate how long your kiln would take to bend the witness cone if for some
reason it fired at full rate. Then check the kiln before that critical
estimated time. In addition, check the kiln once in awhile just to make sure
everything is okay.
Some kilns will not fire hot enough to destroy themselves no matter how long
they run. This is especially true for kilns with older heating elements. On
the other hand, a cone 10 kiln can get hot enough to melt the ware into a
puddle and ruin all the firebricks.
A kiln that has multiple relays is less likely to over-fire than a kiln with
a single relay. This is because it would be rare for all the relays to lock
on at the same time. The exception is a multiple-relay kiln that uses a
"driver relay" to control all the others.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabienne McMillan"
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?" Do you all stare at the
> bugger for the x hours? God forbid it should be a
> crystalline firing. Do you hold going to the
> bathroom, too, just in case? Or is it okay to leave
> for 5, 10, 15 minutes or 1 hour for lunch so long as
> you are in the same room, building, town... ?
Taylor from Rockport on tue 5 jul 05
Howdy Fabienne:
I don't know what other electric firers do but I didn't leave my kiln for
more than an hour. When I type "leave" I mean leave the kiln room aka
garage. I never left the property at all when firing. When I
type "property" I mean that if my kiln were the second basemen, I never
strayed so far from home that I couldn't make the throw to second base to
start a double play. I had too much invested in my house to risk burning
it all down. I would not dream of getting in my truck and going anywhere
while my kiln was firing. During the turn up period I would do other
things around the house, but I would never be more than a quick run to the
kiln room (garage). When the kiln approached the endpoint I set alarms
every half hour or so and checked the kiln religiously. The last 20 or so
minutes I was always in the kiln room (garage) glancing over at the kiln,
listening for the sitter to drop, checking my firing cones. As soon as
that sitter tripped, I would reach over and reset the plunger. WATCH OUT
THAT THING IS HOT! Then I don't bother putting down the #10 welding
glass. Now when I set my kiln up it will be in another building and I will
have to deal with new sets of issues.
On my very first firing, I checked way too often and even felt of the power
cable to be sure it was not overheating.
In my view, an electric kiln is not a fire and forget air to surface
missle. It's a simple, dumb hotbox that needs a mind to keep it on
target. If, however, you have been pounding the Dr Pepper for an hour or
so, when you gots to go you gots to go. I imagine that a gas kiln is
pretty much the same.
If you get there just in time to see the firemen and women refolding the
hoses, the kiln was unattended.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:39:22 -0700, Fabienne McMillan
wrote:
>Hello folks,
>
>I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
>babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
>definition of "unattended?"
...
>Go ahead, shoot. Let's see if one of us is left
>standing. Sounds like some religious tenant.
...
Liz Willoughby on tue 5 jul 05
Hello Fabienne McMillan,
So nice to read your words again on Clayart.
Essentially, baby sitting an electric kiln simply means staying home
or coming back to your studio when you think the time for shut off
will be, occasionally checking it. Not to rely on other methods for
shutting down, especially with a glaze firing.
There are too many scary stories of kilns overfiring, studios being
burnt down, all because of something going wrong.
Always have the correct cones in your kiln, so if something goes
amiss with the firing, that is the controller fails, etc.....you have
something there that will tell you what is going on.
Controllers are wonderful, but they should be set so that the end of
the firing is when you are around to check to see if the firing is
going along according to schedule.
Just makes common sense.
Now are you living in France for a while, and yes, that looks like
you married an Irishman, that is I think so, Mc, not Mac.
Be well, and best of luck,
Liz from Grafton, Ontario, Canada.
>Hello folks,
>
>I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
>babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
>definition of "unattended?" Do you all stare at the
>bugger for the x hours? God forbid it should be a
>crystalline firing. Do you hold going to the
>bathroom, too, just in case? Or is it okay to leave
>for 5, 10, 15 minutes or 1 hour for lunch so long as
>you are in the same room, building, town... ?
>
>Go ahead, shoot. Let's see if one of us is left
>standing. Sounds like some religious tenant.
>
>
>Fabienne McMillan
>
>They teach anything in universities today.
>You can major in mud pies -- Orson Welles
Wayne Seidl on tue 5 jul 05
Once again into the fray! Charge!!!
I do not leave my (electric) kiln alone while firing.
It is outdoors (under a carport roof).
It gets lonely.
A cat or lizard or tree frog could inadvertently walk on it while
it's on and burn its feet.
Some idiot neighbor might try cooking a chicken in it if I turned my
back....or Taylor's possum.
I read a book.
I listen to music.
I pet the cat(s).
I write.
I throw.
I trim.
I glaze, or make glazes.
I use the pugmill.
I cut wood on the electric meter .
I take a dip in the pool.
Yeah, I will go use the bathroom, I am not superman.
I will answer a phone call. I do not watch TV.
The kiln knows what to do, it doesn't need me hovering. But I am
always within 100 feet of it. It gets looked over every 5-15 minutes
or so. Will I leave the property? NO. Never. Not as long as it's
on. I trust it about as much as I trust my toaster, my oven, my
dryer. Which is to say, not at all.=20
But then, I have lost a house to fire before. Never again.
My opinion, my routine. Feel free to disagree.
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Fabienne McMillan
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Unattended Kiln Firing
Hello folks,
I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
definition of "unattended?" Do you all stare at the
bugger for the x hours? God forbid it should be a
crystalline firing. Do you hold going to the
bathroom, too, just in case? Or is it okay to leave
for 5, 10, 15 minutes or 1 hour for lunch so long as
you are in the same room, building, town... ?
Go ahead, shoot. Let's see if one of us is left
standing. Sounds like some religious tenant.
Fabienne McMillan
They teach anything in universities today.
You can major in mud pies -- Orson Welles
____________________________________________________
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Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________
__________
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subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Kathi LeSueur on tue 5 jul 05
Arnold Howard wrote:
> A kiln could fire at full rate if a relay locked on, a thermocouple
> failed,
> or the contacts in a switch stuck in a single-switch kiln.
>
>
This is exactly what happened to me with a bisque firing. Twelve five
piece place settings ruined. I learned my lesson. Now I program the kiln
so that it should finish during the day when I am around to watch it.
Controllers are wonderful devices, except when they don't work. I don't
want to loose that amount of work again.
Kathi
Andrew Lubow on tue 5 jul 05
Is there any way to ball park estimate the time required to fire a load =
as a back up safety procedure?? Asks the newbie on firing.
Andy Lubow
"Live each day like it was going to be your last. Someday you'll be =
right" Benny Hill
Neal on wed 6 jul 05
I'm still new to firing kilns. The instructor at the city
arts center where I took a kiln owning workshop said not to
leave a kiln firing unattended--not meaning that you had to
sit beside it to watch it, but instead be there to check on
it periodically.
To be honest, I have left my kiln in the preheat phase for
a few hours.
Then Andy asked:
> "Is there any way to ball park estimate the
> time required to fire a load as a back up
> safety procedure??"
I've kept firing logs for all 19 of my firings. I do them
in Word tables, writing down the time the kiln reaches
certain temperatures. Doing this in a methodical manner
works for me. I can now guess, within a few minutes, how
long a firing is going to take.
My L&L instruction manual came with tables of the Easy Fire
programs at different cones that give estimated times for
firing. The tables begin on page 44 of this document:
Neal O'Briant
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Arnold Howard on wed 6 jul 05
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
> I believe one would not have to check/visually look at the kiln all the
> time, could be left for hours at a time, but would be present to the
> extent
> if something were to go wrong, one could be on hand to deal with the
> situation - say, put out a fire.
I know of several fires caused by kilns. In one case, someone fired a kiln
without the stand. In another, the lid was open and the kiln was turned on
somehow, causing a fire in a garage. In a third case, someone on Clayart had
a studio fire caused, as I remember, by a faulty wall outlet or cord plug.
One time I helped examine a kiln that had been in a garage fire. When I saw
the burned kiln, it was stored in a laboratory where fire experts were
studying it. As it turned out, the fire was caused by a faulty electrical
circuit panel. The kiln just happened to be in the garage. The kiln interior
was in perfect condition.
At any rate, I have never heard of an over-fired kiln causing a fire. When a
kiln over-fires, the elements burn themselves out, and the kiln cools down
on its own. The interior may be ruined, but the heat is contained within the
kiln.
I don't consider an electric kiln a fire hazard as long as one follows
safety guidelines. All the fires I know of could have been prevented by
using the correct stand, keeping the lid closed, and disconnecting the power
when the kiln is not in use.
I look forward to hearing other opinions.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
dannon rhudy on wed 6 jul 05
Fabienne said:
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?" ............
I don't leave my kiln unattended. That does not mean that I sit
and stare at it (that's a group activity known to potters world wide).
If I'm firing an electric kiln, it shuts down before I leave the studio.
I check on it periodically to note temp, make sure it is behaving
normally, (i.e., climb rate is ordinary etc). I would not be comfortable
leaving before the firing finishes. Too many things can and do happen.
Gas kilns require attention for obvious reasons, and I would not
leave one unattended. Unpleasant surprises can and do ensue
when they are left alone for long periods. Generally, I work in
the next room, check now and then. I have known students to
leave gas kilns unattended (I'll just run across the street and have
a beer syndrome). Many a ruined firing, shelves to replace, etc.
Wood kilns - well, they can be left unattended, but it sure will
lengthen the firing time.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Ann Brink on wed 6 jul 05
Ok, I'll admit it; I go to the store, etc while my Skutt (no controller) is
on low or medium. Sometimes have been gone 2 hours or so. Never while it's
on high, on the
final climb. I also go out while the dishwasher, washer, dryer etc are
running.
A "constant", not production potter,
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA
Jim Willett wrote:"> Ok, we'll add our two cents worth to this one. We know
there are lots of
> you guys lurking our there just like us. We fire our three kilns (Cone Art
> yay!) whenever we have a load ready to go be it bisque or glaze. That
> means we don't sit and baby sit our kilns. My background is industrial
> instrumentation and mining prep plant maintenance. I know systems and yes
> one will fail once in a while, however I am not going to lose sleep over
> it. .....
Pam Cresswell on wed 6 jul 05
I fire semi-unattended. I have an old dinosaur kiln that I love. No timer,
no computer, just a kiln sitter and 2 4-way switches. You cannot just turn
it on and go, as you have to turn up the heat manually. I usually set it to
low/low for a few hours, then before I leave it, set it to med/med
overnight. First thing in the morning I set it to high/high, and I stay with
it ( well, close to it) till it reaches maturity, usually cone 6 by lunch
time. I check it every hour, then as it gets close to target, every 15 min
or so till cone 6 is down. Then I usually set it back to med/med for 6 hours
or so, or till I need to go home and go to bed.
So, I never leave it unattended when set to high, but on low or medium, it
can run for days and not get very hot :-) The elements are getting sort of
old, I have noticed that ^6 happening later and later, so I will have to
replace them soon. With new elements, it may be a whole different sort of
beast!
Pam in hot and steamy KC, where pots are not dry enough to bisque after
sitting on the ware shelf for a week................
Snail Scott on wed 6 jul 05
Unattended kilns: yeah, I do that. My studio isn't
in my house, and though electrical fires in wall
wiring aren't unknown, they're pretty rare. If the
kiln itself catches fire, it would only be because
something got up against it, and that's why the
kiln shed has a door. The kiln itself isn't flammable,
nor is anything inside it, right? And my kiln shed
is largely fireproof.
By the way, adobe makes a great kiln shed...
I'd be more concerned about my toaster-oven, right
there on the kitchen counter near the paper towels
and under the wood cabinets, sharing an outlet with
other stuff, spattered with grease and full of
flammable toast or whatever. I've had kitchen fires.
I've never had a studio fire. That's too small a
sample to be statistically valid, but it does seem
to correlate to the larger world's data as well.
I start up the kiln, and if it's a manual electric,
I have to be there to turn it up at first. After that,
when it's cooking on 'high' and has many hours yet
to run, I may leave the premises for short errands.
I always plan to be back well before the end of a
firing, so I can monitor the witness cones and tweak
any unevenness before the final temperature is reached.
S&%t happens in this life, and a post-office trip may
end with me being flattened by a bus and never making
it back to turn the kiln off. For that, I have a kiln-
sitter (as a fail-safe, not to end all firings for me)
and a kiln timer. Could both of these fail? Sure. And
if they did, I'd have a bunch of overcooked clay, and
I'd eventually burn out the kiln innards, but I doubt
there's be a fire because of it. Just a lot of messed-
up work and a kiln in need of parts.
A gas kiln needs other types of attention, which
varies with the type, just as with electric kilns.
Some are designed to be automatic, needing minimal
adjustment during firing if any. Such a kiln can be
left for hours unattended if it's in a safe, secure
location. I'd want to be there for the final hours,
but not for safety reasons. I'm currently using a kiln
like that - still feels weird to me, not to be checking
the gas/air mixture and reduction levels every 20
minutes, but it doesn't need me to, so I'll go do
something constructive in the meantime. I get a lot
more done that way.
This depends on the location, though. Can anyone else
get in? Is anyone else likely to? If kids or animals
are involved, I'd be very attentive, you bet. If the
space contains flammables, I'd be careful of that,
too. As a general rule, I plan to be on premises while
firing, and check the kiln maybe every other hour if
it doesn't need anything done otherwise. If something
comes up, though, I could leave it for a short time
without much concern.
Being near enough to cope with unexpected crises is a
very good idea when firing. I recommend it. Try to
arrange your obligations to not conflict with firings;
you ought to be there. But going away now and then is
OK.
-Snail
Jane Murray-Smith on wed 6 jul 05
I had an almost disastrous experience when we put my new (used) electric
kiln into our new kiln shed, which was sitting up off the ground as it was
partly over the septic drain field. This kiln had been fired for 10 years
sitting on a wood deck and there was barely any change of color in the floor
under the kiln when we moved it.
We had MDF on the floor where we put this kiln.
During the 3rd firing, I realized that I could see daylight! under the kiln.
The MDF (with all the highly flammable glue in it) had completely coked,
dropped out and had started to coke the supporting floor joists.
My kiln god was my savior that day!
The floor is now cement.
Cheers, Jane
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnold Howard"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William & Susan Schran User"
>> I believe one would not have to check/visually look at the kiln all the
>> time, could be left for hours at a time, but would be present to the
>> extent
>> if something were to go wrong, one could be on hand to deal with the
>> situation - say, put out a fire.
>
> I know of several fires caused by kilns. In one case, someone fired a kiln
> without the stand. In another, the lid was open and the kiln was turned on
> somehow, causing a fire in a garage. In a third case, someone on Clayart
> had
> a studio fire caused, as I remember, by a faulty wall outlet or cord plug.
>
> One time I helped examine a kiln that had been in a garage fire. When I
> saw
> the burned kiln, it was stored in a laboratory where fire experts were
> studying it. As it turned out, the fire was caused by a faulty electrical
> circuit panel. The kiln just happened to be in the garage. The kiln
> interior
> was in perfect condition.
>
> At any rate, I have never heard of an over-fired kiln causing a fire. When
> a
> kiln over-fires, the elements burn themselves out, and the kiln cools down
> on its own. The interior may be ruined, but the heat is contained within
> the
> kiln.
>
> I don't consider an electric kiln a fire hazard as long as one follows
> safety guidelines. All the fires I know of could have been prevented by
> using the correct stand, keeping the lid closed, and disconnecting the
> power
> when the kiln is not in use.
>
> I look forward to hearing other opinions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
> ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Ric Swenson on wed 6 jul 05
I never like staying in the atmosphere of the bisque kiln...smelly.....
my Irish Setter...who lived in my studio for many years...was my GUARD against bad karma in the kiln. Thanks SEAN.
Actually..... I maintained my kiln setter... and trusted it. I never left town when it was firing but electric kiln that is well maintained and tested periodically should function perfectly. Skutt integrity. Trust built up over years of firing....
I never bet my house on a cone...but never lost sleep either.
My natural gas fired Olsen 24 fired perfectly for years...but I watched it like a hawk. Cone 10 is very hot.
See my article in CM re ventilation about gas kiln ventilation.......Dec '79
ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
.......Ric Swenson (770) 923-8816, Atlanta, GA. From: dannon rhudy <dannon@CCRTC.COM> Reply-To: Clayart <CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:57:41 -0500 Fabienne said: > I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of > babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the > definition of "unattended?" ............ I don't leave my kiln unattended. That does not mean that I sit and stare at it (that's a group activity known to potters world wide). If I'm firing an electric kiln, it shuts down before I leave the studio. I check on it periodically to note temp, make sure it is behaving normally, (i.e., climb rate is ordinary etc). I would not be comfortable leaving before
the firing finishes. Too many things can and do happen. Gas kilns require attention for obvious reasons, and I would not leave one unattended. Unpleasant surprises can and do ensue when they are left alone for long periods. Generally, I work in the next room, check now and then. I have known students to leave gas kilns unattended (I'll just run across the street and have a beer syndrome). Many a ruined firing, shelves to replace, etc. Wood kilns - well, they can be left unattended, but it sure will lengthen the firing time. regards Dannon Rhudy ______________________________________________________________________________ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/ Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who
may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Carole Fox on wed 6 jul 05
When I said I don't leave my electric kiln unattended while firing, I meant
I don't leave the premises. My kiln has manual controls, so I have to
adjust the switches periodically anyway. But, no, I don't sit there and
stare at it! And if you do, you might want to try getting a life :-)
I do other things, set a timer to let me know when it's time for the next
check, and stay within earshot of the falling weight after the witness cone
starts to bend. That way I can turn the kiln back on to soak or fire down
if I want to, or just turn all the switches off. If I do turn it back on
after the sitter has shut off, I do not leave the room until I turn
everything off.
Carole Fox
Dayton OH
Vince Pitelka on wed 6 jul 05
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?"
In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at the
Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to hover
over the kiln.
I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or a
programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix them
and then refire the load.
I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
good night's sleep and let them do their work.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Earl Brunner on wed 6 jul 05
Finally, a voice of reason and practicality. The controllers on the Skutt
kilns we have at the art centers give a length of fire read out at the end
of each firing (I'm there at the beginning and that's about it). Using the
basic program model from J&R's Mastering Cone 6 Glazes, The glaze fire with
the fire down takes somewhere around 16-20 hours, my bisque about the same,
because I preheat at 180 for 5-6 hours to keep the bombs the beginners make
from blowing up.
The kilns get loaded between 4-8 pm usually and fire off the next day; most
of the time someone is around when they fire off, but they aren't REALLY
monitoring the kilns. This art center has been in operation for 25 years and
for most of that time they have fired in this manner. On average they fire
each kiln about 2 times per week. I figure that's somewhere in the
neighborhood of at least 2000 firings (allowing for off weeks,etc).
Yeah, we have had some error out firings, but its usually the elements
failing, the thermocouple failing or once, one of the relays stuck in the on
position, but only one of the three and the firing errored on a temperature
gain instead of loss and shut down the other two elements so the kiln
actually lost temperature.
Without a full time clay person, when would we fire?
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jim Willett
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 7:52 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
Ok, we'll add our two cents worth to this one. We know there are lots of
you guys lurking our there just like us. We fire our three kilns (Cone Art
yay!) whenever we have a load ready to go be it bisque or glaze. That
means we don't sit and baby sit our kilns. My background is industrial
instrumentation and mining prep plant maintenance. I know systems and yes
one will fail once in a while, however I am not going to lose sleep over
it. We have fired our kilns automatically for respectively 12 years (7
cubic foot single zone Orton controller), 4 years (10 cu ft Bartlett
Controller) and 1.5 years (16 cu ft Bartlett controller) with no
catastrophic failures. The worst is an open thermocouple or element.
FTH...failure to heat. The Potter Brumfield relays Cone Art uses are
industrial standard relays that handle all the Black Box switching running
your life everywhere. I have never had one stick shut in an industrial
situation in 25 years of instrumentation experience. The contacts may fry
and fail or the coils may open up from failure but these are fail safe
failures. We find it a bit incongrous that in the 21st Century everyone
is sitting around watching their electric kilns fire. We are very aware of
operating costs, and time is money. Let the computer do it. We have just
ordered another 16 cu ft Cone Art oval (yay Cone Art) and it will be fired
the same way as it's brothers. Daily and automatically. The absolute worst
we could ever see happening in a proper installation with a three zone
controller is one zone over firing but the controller will still kill the
firing at an average temperature of your final setting. If the controller
fails, a thermocouple fails, an element fails, a relay fails, the system
shuts down and you under fire.
Let's hear it from a few more of you production lurkers out there. You
know who you are!
Jim Willett and Cindy Clarke
Out of the Fire Studio
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
http://www.outofthefirestudio.ca
http://www.howtomakepottery.com
blog: http://potblog.outofthefirestudio.com
http://www.rockymountaindragons.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on wed 6 jul 05
The key I think is to keep all of your stuff in good working order, I also keep a full set of elements and a new themocouple on hand for emergencies. We will probably get a set of relays in the near future, then the down time will be minimal.
Vince Pitelka wrote:
I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or a
programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix them
and then refire the load.
I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
good night's sleep and let them do their work.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
Elizabeth Priddy on wed 6 jul 05
i like a Dawson with a timer AND a cone setter
If you know how long it should take and set it for one
hour longer than that, the timer should turn it off if
the cone breaks [I have had that happen]
as fool proof as it gets.
E
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?"
In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at the
Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to hover
over the kiln.
I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or a
programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix them
and then refire the load.
I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
good night's sleep and let them do their work.
- Vince
Elizabeth Priddy
252-504-2622
1273 Hwy 101
Beaufort, NC 28516
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
*If you are an extra-sensitive or easily-offended type:
Remember that what I say is obviously just my opinion based
on my experiences and that I, like most people, don't go around
intending to step on toes and make folks cry. Take it with a
grain of salt.
---------------------------------
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William & Susan Schran User on wed 6 jul 05
On 7/6/05 7:22 PM, "Vince Pitelka" wrote:
> In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
> periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
> now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln.
Pretty good record.
I have had two "melt downs in my 30 years in clay, both to Kiln Sitter
malfunctions - the cone-holder/sensor rod/cone melting thing that can
happen. Both were an overfired bisque - way overfired - shelves warped, pots
bloated and stuck together. Both were supposed to shut off with the Kiln
Sitter.
I now NEVER leave kilns unattended for long periods of time. I will NEVER
trust a Kiln Sitter. And now I will NEVER trust the controller to shut off
the kiln.
Twice burned....
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Tom at Hutchtel on wed 6 jul 05
OK Earl, you sucked me in. Damn!
We fire 3 manual kilns a skutt 1027-3 and 2 shimpo/tucker/2827's two to
three times a week with just the kiln sitters. Never had a failure except
twice the thermocouple wire somehow got moved over and prevented the lever
from shutting down and once the cone stuck to the 2 support posts.
Overfired by a few cones. Lost a load, and it's disappointing, but with
this level of production, it's miniscule. (Of course it only happens when
you're crunching for a show or order). The backup timer catches it or it
realize that in the morning the thing shouldn't be this hot.
We sure don't lose sleep over it. Why fire at night? Who wants to be
breathing all that crud? Even with fans, the atmosphere still stinks. So
yes. fire away unattended. the technology is so damn near fail safe that
it's not worth the aggravation or lost sleep.
On the other hand, take normal precautions. Don't rest that piece of
plywood against the kiln while firing. Check the thermocouple wire. Reset
the trip lever thingamajig to make sure it's calibrated. Put a little kiln
wash on the cone supports once in a while. (maintain your computer parts).
Cmon folks, or we'll have to change the list name to "ClayParanoiaArt". You
all should see what Mel does with propane hoses and stuff. It's make your
back run cold.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Brunner"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
> Finally, a voice of reason and practicality. The controllers on the Skutt
> kilns we have at the art centers give a length of fire read out at the end
> of each firing (I'm there at the beginning and that's about it). Using
> the
> basic program model from J&R's Mastering Cone 6 Glazes, The glaze fire
> with
> the fire down takes somewhere around 16-20 hours, my bisque about the
> same,
> because I preheat at 180 for 5-6 hours to keep the bombs the beginners
> make
> from blowing up.
>
> The kilns get loaded between 4-8 pm usually and fire off the next day;
> most
> of the time someone is around when they fire off, but they aren't REALLY
> monitoring the kilns. This art center has been in operation for 25 years
> and
> for most of that time they have fired in this manner. On average they fire
> each kiln about 2 times per week. I figure that's somewhere in the
> neighborhood of at least 2000 firings (allowing for off weeks,etc).
> Yeah, we have had some error out firings, but its usually the elements
> failing, the thermocouple failing or once, one of the relays stuck in the
> on
> position, but only one of the three and the firing errored on a
> temperature
> gain instead of loss and shut down the other two elements so the kiln
> actually lost temperature.
>
> Without a full time clay person, when would we fire?
>
> Earl Brunner
> Las Vegas, NV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jim Willett
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 7:52 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
>
> Ok, we'll add our two cents worth to this one. We know there are lots of
> you guys lurking our there just like us. We fire our three kilns (Cone Art
> yay!) whenever we have a load ready to go be it bisque or glaze. That
> means we don't sit and baby sit our kilns. My background is industrial
> instrumentation and mining prep plant maintenance. I know systems and yes
> one will fail once in a while, however I am not going to lose sleep over
> it. We have fired our kilns automatically for respectively 12 years (7
> cubic foot single zone Orton controller), 4 years (10 cu ft Bartlett
> Controller) and 1.5 years (16 cu ft Bartlett controller) with no
> catastrophic failures. The worst is an open thermocouple or element.
> FTH...failure to heat. The Potter Brumfield relays Cone Art uses are
> industrial standard relays that handle all the Black Box switching running
> your life everywhere. I have never had one stick shut in an industrial
> situation in 25 years of instrumentation experience. The contacts may fry
> and fail or the coils may open up from failure but these are fail safe
> failures. We find it a bit incongrous that in the 21st Century everyone
> is sitting around watching their electric kilns fire. We are very aware of
> operating costs, and time is money. Let the computer do it. We have just
> ordered another 16 cu ft Cone Art oval (yay Cone Art) and it will be fired
> the same way as it's brothers. Daily and automatically. The absolute worst
> we could ever see happening in a proper installation with a three zone
> controller is one zone over firing but the controller will still kill the
> firing at an average temperature of your final setting. If the controller
> fails, a thermocouple fails, an element fails, a relay fails, the system
> shuts down and you under fire.
> Let's hear it from a few more of you production lurkers out there. You
> know who you are!
>
> Jim Willett and Cindy Clarke
> Out of the Fire Studio
> Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
> http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
> http://www.outofthefirestudio.ca
> http://www.howtomakepottery.com
> blog: http://potblog.outofthefirestudio.com
> http://www.rockymountaindragons.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Taylor from Rockport on thu 7 jul 05
Hey Tom:
I forgot to mention that I fire an old Paragon manual kiln and it's my
first one, so of course I'm going to to be watching that pot boil. Hee
hee, I've still got more fingers and toes than I do logged firings, so let
that be the grain of salt.
Unfortunately some of us don't have the departmental budgets like Vince,
or the back inventory like major producers to pay for an overfire. If I
let this old kiln get out of hand, that's it. I won't have a kiln. If I
fry all three elements in a kiln sitter malfunction, I will be SOL for
quite awhile. I consider these reasons ample justification for an
occasional "sohowsitgoing" to the kiln while firing.
Most of my attention is during turn ups and then about 40 minutes till
anticipated endpoint. One can be pretty sure the kiln is not going to
rocket to the end temp several hours before normal, so lots of free time
in the middle of the firing, but towards the end...well, I've got an old
timer/sitter and I like to be sure.
Unlike some, I get the heck out of the room when that monster fires. It's
just too blazing hot to be in there, not to mention the stinkies that I
shouldn't be breathing in (no vent as of yet). I'll go feed the chickens
I reckon.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
http:wirerabbit.blogspot.com
On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:58:02 -0500, Tom at Hutchtel
wrote:
>OK Earl, you sucked me in. Damn!
>
>We fire 3 manual kilns a skutt 1027-3 and 2 shimpo/tucker/2827's two to
>three times a week with just the kiln sitters. Never had a failure except
>twice the thermocouple wire somehow got moved over and prevented the lever
>from shutting down and once the cone stuck to the 2 support posts.
>Overfired by a few cones.
...
Gary Harvey on thu 7 jul 05
I can't relate to this. I fired my old paragon kiln and the cone melted and
one side stuck to the metal post and the other stuck to the center rod.
Which causes the kiln to not turn off. After I decided that the kiln had
been on to long I manually shut it down. Had I not been monitoring it there
would have been a bad situation. When I opened the kiln the glaze had all
melted off the ware and the kiln furniture had warped. That's when I
started using witness cones. I do leave my kiln when it is firing but only
before I turn the two switches to high. After that, I monitor it every 30
minutes. I do not recommend leaving a 2000 degree kiln firing unattended
completely that is a recipe for disaster. Gary Harvey, Palestine TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Priddy"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
>i like a Dawson with a timer AND a cone setter
> If you know how long it should take and set it for one
> hour longer than that, the timer should turn it off if
> the cone breaks [I have had that happen]
> as fool proof as it gets.
>
> E
>
> Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
>> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
>> definition of "unattended?"
>
> In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
> periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
> now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at the
> Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
> malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
> resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
> times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to
> hover
> over the kiln.
>
> I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or
> a
> programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
> they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix
> them
> and then refire the load.
>
> I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
> good night's sleep and let them do their work.
> - Vince
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> 252-504-2622
> 1273 Hwy 101
> Beaufort, NC 28516
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
> *If you are an extra-sensitive or easily-offended type:
> Remember that what I say is obviously just my opinion based
> on my experiences and that I, like most people, don't go around
> intending to step on toes and make folks cry. Take it with a
> grain of salt.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
claybair on thu 7 jul 05
Whew... Thanks Vince..... here I thought I was
going to have to stay in the closet regarding how
I fire my kiln.
I don't want to be in there while it's firing even though
I have a vent. I also don't want my production time curtailed
so I generally fire overnight. I schedule it so it's easy for
me to be there in the morning to monitor the end.
It's been successful for the 5 years with minor trouble
such as needing new elements and electronic controller
needing reprogramming. I have a kiln sitter as backup on
this kiln (L&L) which shuts it off if it's firing too hot.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vince Pitelka
> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
> definition of "unattended?"
In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at the
Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to hover
over the kiln.
I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or a
programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix them
and then refire the load.
I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
good night's sleep and let them do their work.
- Vince
--
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Arnold Howard on thu 7 jul 05
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or
> a
> programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
> they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix
> them
> and then refire the load.
I agree with Vince that an over-fire is rare, but just a couple of weeks ago
a CSR at Paragon told me about a digital kiln that continued to fire after
the controller turned off.
Most digital kilns have two or three relays. If a relay in a multi-relay
kiln locks on, the kiln won't over-fire, because only one section of
elements will remain on. It is a little different with mercury relays, which
are used in cone 10 kilns. The mechanical relay that drives the mercury
relays can fail and cause an over-fire.
However, I think a digital controller is less apt to over-fire than a Kiln
Sitter.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Alistair Gillies on thu 7 jul 05
I was keeping quiet whilst all of those who say that it is as good as
illegal to leave a kiln whilst it is firing, had their say ;-)
At most schools, or in my current case education centre, there is no choice
but to fire the kiln unattended - we are cannot be there for all of the
firing. Have your kiln serviced yearly, check the firing schedule as many
times as you feel you need - in my case about 6 times before I go out of the
door - and check that the kiln is free from clutter - has some bright one
put a pot on top to dry a bit but left it on a wooden bat? - or as Mel found
is there something leaning against it.
I have worked with clay for 29yrs and have always been in situations where
the kiln was left to switch off - take precautions and keep your kiln well
maintained.
Alistair Gillies
Above the Ironbridge Gorge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
>> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
>> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
>> definition of "unattended?"
>
> In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
> periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
> now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at
> the
> Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
> malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
> resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
> times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to
> hover
> over the kiln.
>
> I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or
> a
> programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
> they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix
> them
> and then refire the load.
>
> I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
> good night's sleep and let them do their work.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on thu 7 jul 05
Gary, you are talking apples and oranges. Vince is talking about computer programed firing, and Elizabeth is talking about using a kiln setter AND a timer that shuts off the kiln, you are talking about a kiln setter, no timer. They all use different mechanisms to shut down.
Gary Harvey wrote:I can't relate to this. I fired my old paragon kiln and the cone melted and
one side stuck to the metal post and the other stuck to the center rod.
Which causes the kiln to not turn off. After I decided that the kiln had
been on to long I manually shut it down. Had I not been monitoring it there
would have been a bad situation. When I opened the kiln the glaze had all
melted off the ware and the kiln furniture had warped. That's when I
started using witness cones. I do leave my kiln when it is firing but only
before I turn the two switches to high. After that, I monitor it every 30
minutes. I do not recommend leaving a 2000 degree kiln firing unattended
completely that is a recipe for disaster. Gary Harvey, Palestine TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Priddy"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Unattended Kiln Firing
>i like a Dawson with a timer AND a cone setter
> If you know how long it should take and set it for one
> hour longer than that, the timer should turn it off if
> the cone breaks [I have had that happen]
> as fool proof as it gets.
>
> E
>
> Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> I'm curious to see how everyone handles this issue of
>> babysitting the kiln. Essentially, what is the
>> definition of "unattended?"
>
> In 35 years in clay, I have ALWAYS left my kilns unattended for long
> periods. I have ALWAYS trusted the Kiln Sitter to shut off the kiln, and
> now I ALWAYS trust the controller to shut off the kiln. In 11 years at the
> Appalachian Center for Craft, we have had bisque or glaze firings
> malfunction a few times due to cone-holder or sensor-rod malfunctions,
> resulting in over-fired wares, but never damage to the kiln. That's a few
> times out of many hundreds of firings. It was worth it not to have to
> hover
> over the kiln.
>
> I have never seen a kiln element switch, a Kiln Sitter shutoff switch, or
> a
> programmable controller fail in the ON position. In my experience, when
> they fail, they shut the kiln off prematurely and you just have to fix
> them
> and then refire the load.
>
> I'm with Jim Willett on this, especially with programmable kilns. Go get a
> good night's sleep and let them do their work.
> - Vince
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> 252-504-2622
> 1273 Hwy 101
> Beaufort, NC 28516
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
> *If you are an extra-sensitive or easily-offended type:
> Remember that what I say is obviously just my opinion based
> on my experiences and that I, like most people, don't go around
> intending to step on toes and make folks cry. Take it with a
> grain of salt.
>
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>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
Vince Pitelka on thu 7 jul 05
> I agree with Vince that an over-fire is rare, but just a couple of weeks
> ago
> a CSR at Paragon told me about a digital kiln that continued to fire after
> the controller turned off.
> Most digital kilns have two or three relays. If a relay in a multi-relay
> kiln locks on, the kiln won't over-fire, because only one section of
> elements will remain on. It is a little different with mercury relays,
> which
> are used in cone 10 kilns. The mechanical relay that drives the mercury
> relays can fail and cause an over-fire.
> However, I think a digital controller is less apt to over-fire than a Kiln
> Sitter.
Thanks Arnold. I didn't want to seem cavalier about the risk. I know that
there is always some risk. But our kiln-use policies are based on a
combination of risk assessment and demand. During peak use, our toploader
electrics are being used continuously, and we cannot afford to say "no
firing at night," and we cannot police the kilns all the time to assure that
students remain on-site to monitor their firings in the toploaders. Because
we have never had a kiln overfire from a controller malfunction, and in ten
years have only had two malfunctions of kiln sitters (and are phasing out
our last kiln-sitter), the odds seem in our favor (knock on wood knock on
wood). So these policies have worked out very well for us.
And regarding Taylor's post, we have to make our budget stretch as far as
possible. We cannot afford to "waste" kilns by careless treatment, and we
have never done so. We keep our kilns in good shape, and have strict
policies about firing and maintenance. That's part of the reason we have
had so few problems over the last decade.
I certainly understand that an independent potter with one kiln would want
to take very good care of it, and it would be sensible to monitor the firing
closely, especially at shut-off time.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
bonnie staffel on fri 8 jul 05
Have to laugh at when I was starting out in clay. A friend built for me a
small electric kiln about one brick high hexagon shape. They would come
over in the evening with some cake and we would drink coffee and eat and
talk taking turns looking in the peep hole at the glazes boiling. It was a
real beginner's thrill. Another no no was I had my studio in the kitchen on
a long counter. What did I know????
Warm regards to the newbies out there going through their initial fears and
successes.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
Charter Member Potters Council
William & Susan Schran User on fri 8 jul 05
On 7/7/05 3:55 PM, "Arnold Howard" wrote:
> However, I think a digital controller is less apt to over-fire than a Kiln
> Sitter.
I agree and I certainly believe there are more things to go wrong with a
kiln that will cause it to shut down as opposed to over-firing.
BUT, every kiln manufacturer writes in their kiln manual: "Never leave kiln
unattended while firing". I'm sure this is a "cover-their-butts" disclaimer,
but just because some mechanical or electronic device has functioned as it
was designed to for many years, does not mean it's fail safe.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
URL Krueger on fri 8 jul 05
Has anyone ever had the bottom fall out of their kiln?
Mine has cracks in it and I have been concerned about that
happening so I don't leave it when it is hot.
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Jeanette Harris on fri 8 jul 05
>Has anyone ever had the bottom fall out of their kiln?
>Mine has cracks in it and I have been concerned about that
>happening so I don't leave it when it is hot.
>
>--
>Earl K...
>Bothell WA, USA
Funny you should mention that, Earl. Today I'm firing an old Skutt
10/27 full of bisque. I usually use my small new kiln with the
computer, but I figured I need to stock up on bisque ware in prep for
some shows.
It's my understanding that as the kiln heats up, the bricks expand
and the cracks aren't as bad as when the kiln is cold. I'm hoping
that's right. Otherwise I'm in deep kimchee for pieces to glaze. (No
slam intended--I love Koreans, but you do know how hot that stuff us!)
In any case, I'm a regular mother hen about my kilns. Couldn't
possibly leave them while they're firing.
I do have a problem developing on a nearly new Skutt where the back
hinge fastens on. It's cracking into a triangular flap along the top
area of the lid. I don't think it will affect the way the hinge
works, but it still is worrying. Also, for some reason, this new lid
cracks and pops a lot more than the old Skutt does. Does anyone know
if Skutt is trying something new here?
Good thing I have the old one to cannibalize if I need to.
Cheers,
--
Jeanette Harris
Poulsbo WA
Potter's Council member
William & Susan Schran User on fri 8 jul 05
On 7/8/05 9:48 AM, "URL Krueger" wrote:
> Has anyone ever had the bottom fall out of their kiln?
> Mine has cracks in it and I have been concerned about that
> happening so I don't leave it when it is hot.
Haven't had one fall out yet.
Have a L&L J2927 at school with a bottom just full of cracks, several all
the way across. Sat on an open type stand for years, no problem.
Recently moved kilns to a new location. Purchased a new stand, vent system
and control box from L&L. New stand is one piece of metal across (except for
hole for venting) and will support the bottom much better.
I'd recommend getting a piece of sheet metal to sandwich between your
cracked kiln bottom and the stand - no more concern, at least about the
bottom falling out, of the kiln, that is.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Snail Scott on sat 9 jul 05
At 06:48 AM 7/8/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>Has anyone ever had the bottom fall out of their kiln?
>Mine has cracks in it and I have been concerned about that
>happening so I don't leave it when it is hot.
Mine had a major cracks, but it didn't fall apart even
when the hose clamp rusted through and the band fell off.
I wrapped baling wire around it and it held for another
couple of years, until I unstacked the kiln to replace
elements. A kitten walked across it, and it fell into a
dozen pieces.
I shortened the kiln stand, put the lid off my old
beater onto it, and arranged the pieces of my old floor
on top of it before rebanding it and restacking the kiln.
It's still running that way, more evenly than before.
I blame many thousands of miles in U-Haul trucks, plus
my tendency (as a short person) to lean heavily on the
rim when loading. I realized at some point that the
load on the kiln walls presses down on the kiln floor
around the perimeter, where it's completely unsupported
by most kiln stands. This puts a lot of shear force on
the brittle softbrick.
I see that some newer kiln stands are larger than the
standard, which should help. I've also seen kilns with
sheet metal under the bottom, though I wonder whether
it's rigid enough to help with this problem. I also
wonder why it doesn't buckle and warp due to uneven
heating. Anyone tried these metal-bottomed designs?
-Snail
Jim Willett on sun 10 jul 05
In our electrics we have always put a kiln shelf ,( or two, or
three,depending on the kiln shape and size,) on the bottom of the kiln
when new. That way the post never rest on individual bricks but on a
shelf.
Jim
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
Fabienne McMillan on mon 18 jul 05
Hello Folks,
I don't get to check my email often and finally got
through the thread. Thank you for all the feedback.
Personally, when firing I estimate the time and hen
come back just before it ends and thereafter I check
every 30 minutes. I have a coneart with a controller
and use cones as well. I stay on the property and
will fire overnight without a second thought; I try to
keep the kiln in the best possible shape.
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Fabienne McMillan
They teach anything in universities today.
You can major in mud pies -- Orson Welles
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