marianne kuiper milks on sun 24 jul 05
Hello-remember me?
I have read and followed the advice of those who responded, because they made sense and all seemed to - pretty much- agree. Re. what my glazes did: just about everything from peeling to crawling to shivering in spite of the 2200 degrees and just not doing anything right.
I used witnes cones (5 6 7) in two places in the kiln at time eliminating the kiln-sitter alltogether. My results were much, much better, but I still had no clue about the glazes, therefore not how to fix them. I also need to know where to get "bars" for the kiln-siiter.
I went to Alfred University's Summer School, just came back 2 days ago. I attended, patiently and tenaciously, 8 3-hr glaze chemistry classes and learned a ton. Didn't get it all yet, but enough to be able to look at glaze recipes and say "aha...that may be a problem!" I loved it and am terribly intreagued. Hopefully the holes in my "knowledge" will become smaller when I take it again next year.
My gas kiln will be connected the end of this week. I know that this will present a new set of problems, but I am more ready and understand that it, basically, doesn't quite work like a toaster :)
I may ask more questions after I burn my fingers. Thanks again,
Marianne
william schran wrote:
Marianne wrote:>WHAT could I be doing wrong? I have no objection to
another Cabernet but my soul needs more comfort than
that. Any ideas what's happening???.... The cones I used are correct. <
I think we need more specific information about what is not working.
You write: "my glazes will not rise & shine". Mine shrink and shine.
Need to know what the glazes are doing or not doing. Are they not melting?
The correct cones you used - witness cones on the kiln shelf or in
the kiln sitter?
Tell us more!
FYI - Don't think the gas kiln will solve all your problems - not to
burst your bubble, but it could bring another set of problems. We'll
deal with that later.
Bill
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William & Susan Schran User on mon 25 jul 05
On 7/25/05 8:08 PM, "Susan Giddings" wrote:
> Well, off the top of my head, I can't tell you, but I think it's a lot more
> than 1/4". I doubt I'll be able to adjust them for tomorrow's firing, may
> not be until next week we fire again.
It's not all that hard to adjust them. Just reach under and turn the disk
counter clockwise until it is only open 1/4". I recommend doing this prior
to lighting the kiln, but you can make the adjustment while firing, just
have to be very careful and wear a glove for protection.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
William & Susan Schran User on mon 25 jul 05
On 7/24/05 8:08 PM, "marianne kuiper milks"
wrote:
> My gas kiln will be connected the end of this week. I know that this will
> present a new set of problems, but I am more ready and understand that it,
> basically, doesn't quite work like a toaster
Marianne - Let us know when you have the gas kiln ready to go. What
kind/brand is the gas kiln? Or is it home built?
If it's a small updraft, I'll be happy to share some insights of what I've
discovered firing mine. I also have a few glazes that are working well for
^6 reduction.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
marianne kuiper milks on mon 25 jul 05
Hello Bill,
Thank you for writing back. (Did you remember the email you wrote sometime mid spring?)
I have the Olympic top-loading gas kiln, # 2831G. The specs are 11.67 c ft, 28.25x31.5, 4 burners, cone 10, propane. I also bought an automatic shut-off and, I believe, auto ignition system. I grew up with gas heating (Holland) and have GREAT respect for the stuff! The kiln is placed on my NEW cement floor, about 1 ft thick, in my NEW older work-shed, built about 20 years ago. At the back is a 1ft fieldstone wall (old-about 100 yrs- but solid) and the other wall is un-insulated wood. We'll place the kiln 6 ft from there, a hood above, a pully/hook to hold the lid open, and a 9ft stack, which is what Vince Patelka (I believe it was Vince) told me was needed. We still want to put extra heat-insulation on the wood wall and/or ceiling...any sugestions? We also cut away some vegetation, just small stuff.
I am so excited. Yesterday we cut away side-panels to make pully operated vents from top to floor (4 4'x9' in the 15x10 shed) and I felt like I owned a tabacco barn. Great.:)
The kiln will be hooked up next week, I think. Since I was at Alfred U for a month, I don't have anything to fire/bisque yet, but that won't be long. The kiln can be fired oxidation, reduction or raku, acc. to Axner, with minor changes.
I hope it's ok that I responded now, but we're getting company from Germany tomorrow: a 17 yo boy who is deaf and likes ceramics. He's here for a month to practice/learn, including 5 days together at Peters Valley! He'll love the whole kiln process here!
I'll write when I'm ready, which will be soon! And cone 6 recipes would be great. Thanks.
You guys have a great day.
Marianne
---------------------------------
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Susan Giddings on mon 25 jul 05
I, too, have an Olympic updraft, very much like Marianne described. Fire
also to ^10. Getting it into reduction we haven't figured out. The smaller
version we did used to get into reduction, but this one doesn't seem so easy
to do. I think we have way too much draft - chimney is a 10" diameter maybe
13 feet long. The flame out the top between the dampers is very strong and
active even when we close the dampers to about 2" or less. We do get flames
out the peepholes, but the glaze effects do not look at all like a reduction
fire.
There isn't a lot in the archives about FIRING one of these although there's
a lot about Torchbearers, there isn't a lot about firing them - especially
as to reduction. A lot of comments about them being a bit neurotic and
difficult to get into reduction, but nothing from anyone who is successful
in doing it. So if you've managed, I (and everyone in my co-op) would dearly
love to hear how.
S
-------------------------------------------------
Susan Giddings
Bloomfield, Connecticut; New England
North East Coast; USA
"There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are
others who, thanks to their art and intelligence, transform a yellow spot
into the sun." - Pablo Picasso
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of William &
Susan Schran User
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:56 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Please shoot my electric kiln!- William Schran, a.o.
On 7/24/05 8:08 PM, "marianne kuiper milks"
wrote:
> My gas kiln will be connected the end of this week. I know that this will
> present a new set of problems, but I am more ready and understand that it,
> basically, doesn't quite work like a toaster
Marianne - Let us know when you have the gas kiln ready to go. What
kind/brand is the gas kiln? Or is it home built?
If it's a small updraft, I'll be happy to share some insights of what I've
discovered firing mine. I also have a few glazes that are working well for
^6 reduction.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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melpots@pclink.com.
William & Susan Schran User on mon 25 jul 05
On 7/25/05 9:39 AM, "marianne kuiper milks"
wrote:
> I have the Olympic top-loading gas kiln, # 2831G.
And now the adventure begins....
My Olympic updraft is a smaller model - #2327, about 7 cu. Ft. with 3
burners, fired with propane.
When I encountered problems with this kiln, the manufacturer was, well, how
can I put this? Oh, I know - USELESS! If you go back through the archives
searching for "Olympic updraft", you should be able to find my messages.
One caveat - I bought this kiln used for about 1/2 price of the original, so
I'm not real upset about having to figure out to fix what wasn't working.
Anyway, in the end I replaced the burners, installed new pilot/thermocouple
and removed the ignition tube. Works great now!
I also got some great advice from Charles Moore and
George Nagel
A few things I've found to get even firing temperature top to bottom:
1. A pyrometer with two thermocouples. A digital pyrometer is suggested to
instantly see temperatures top & bottom. I'm using L&L's digital system with
two sheathed thermocouples. Of course use witness cones top & bottom are
necessary.
2. Place bottom shelves on 4" posts. You do lose some space, but it's the
only way I've found to get even firings.
3. Place a small piece of kiln shelf a 1 1/2" to 2" below the flue opening.
Kinda tricky setting this in there but it does help.
4. Set the primary air baffles (the round metal disk on the back of the
burner) to about 1/4" open and use two insulating fire bricks on top of the
lid to close in the flue to regulate temperature top to bottom (more open to
raise temp on top, more closed to raise temp bottom) and to control
reduction.
Let us know how it goes.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
William & Susan Schran User on mon 25 jul 05
On 7/25/05 10:32 AM, "Susan Giddings" wrote:
> There isn't a lot in the archives about FIRING one of these although there's
> a lot about Torchbearers, there isn't a lot about firing them - especially
> as to reduction. A lot of comments about them being a bit neurotic and
> difficult to get into reduction, but nothing from anyone who is successful
> in doing it. So if you've managed, I (and everyone in my co-op) would dearly
> love to hear how.
How do you have the primary air baffles set?
I have mine set with about a 1/4" opening. As the kiln temperature rises, I
need to keep closing in the flue opening which also creates more reduction.
Near the end the IFB's I use on top to close in the flue are about 1 1/2"
apart.
I've also found it useful to make pencil lines on the lid spaced 1/4" apart
so I can write down exactly where I placed the bricks.
Also read my response to Marianne to see if any of the suggestions might
help to solve your issue.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Susan Giddings on mon 25 jul 05
Bill,
I have a feelng this will be VERY helpful:
"How do you have the primary air baffles set?"
Well, off the top of my head, I can't tell you, but I think it's a lot more
than 1/4". I doubt I'll be able to adjust them for tomorrow's firing, may
not be until next week we fire again. But I'll adjust them as soon as I can.
There's not a lot one can control with this kiln, but the burners have
always been something I hesitate to adjust. You are being very kind about
the manufacturer!
Marianne? If you're following this, Bill's advice about the piece of shelf
at the top is, in my experience, critical! We had one the same size as the
damper hole and found that it had to be 1 3/4" to 2" from the top center in
order to get it to fire ^10. We also used "deflectors" over each burner to
encourage the flame to go more into the middle. We also used kiln posts at
the very bottom to help direct the fire.
Bill, thank you very much for your help. It may be a week before I can get
back to you.
S
-------------------------------------------------
Susan Giddings
Bloomfield, Connecticut; New England
North East Coast; USA
"There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are
others who, thanks to their art and intelligence, transform a yellow spot
into the sun." - Pablo Picasso
marianne kuiper milks on wed 27 jul 05
Hi,
I am "baffled" by the turn this conversation took...I guess I better go back to the root of today's emails. Funny, and i'm sure the info will help me at some point, but for now i am lost. It's probably the heat....
Marianne
Susan Giddings wrote:
Bill,
I have a feelng this will be VERY helpful:
"How do you have the primary air baffles set?"
Well, off the top of my head, I can't tell you, but I think it's a lot more
than 1/4". I doubt I'll be able to adjust them for tomorrow's firing, may
not be until next week we fire again. But I'll adjust them as soon as I can.
There's not a lot one can control with this kiln, but the burners have
always been something I hesitate to adjust. You are being very kind about
the manufacturer!
Marianne? If you're following this, Bill's advice about the piece of shelf
at the top is, in my experience, critical! We had one the same size as the
damper hole and found that it had to be 1 3/4" to 2" from the top center in
order to get it to fire ^10. We also used "deflectors" over each burner to
encourage the flame to go more into the middle. We also used kiln posts at
the very bottom to help direct the fire.
Bill, thank you very much for your help. It may be a week before I can get
back to you.
S
-------------------------------------------------
Susan Giddings
Bloomfield, Connecticut; New England
North East Coast; USA
"There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are
others who, thanks to their art and intelligence, transform a yellow spot
into the sun." - Pablo Picasso
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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marianne kuiper milks on wed 27 jul 05
Hi
I hope my life (new kiln and all) will be a bit easier than what you describe!
I already knew about the shelves at the bottom, because I've seen that in every gas kiln I encountered, incl. at Alfred.
I do not have a kiln computer of any kind there. With my previous electric kiln I had so much trouble that I - at least for now - intend to do the eyeball (protected) check at all levels, and keep a scoreboard next to the kiln to measure stages and progress. Promises, promises...
I'll also keep your list of advice there, to help me when the kiln goes astray. It's hard: everyone give a different critique on every kiln (that I could afford). Maybe I should just ask about pools, cars or violins or, more simple, pasta and sauce.
Thanks again - I appreicate it!
Marianne
William & Susan Schran User wrote:
On 7/25/05 9:39 AM, "marianne kuiper milks"
wrote:
> I have the Olympic top-loading gas kiln, # 2831G.
And now the adventure begins....
My Olympic updraft is a smaller model - #2327, about 7 cu. Ft. with 3
burners, fired with propane.
When I encountered problems with this kiln, the manufacturer was, well, how
can I put this? Oh, I know - USELESS! If you go back through the archives
searching for "Olympic updraft", you should be able to find my messages.
One caveat - I bought this kiln used for about 1/2 price of the original, so
I'm not real upset about having to figure out to fix what wasn't working.
Anyway, in the end I replaced the burners, installed new pilot/thermocouple
and removed the ignition tube. Works great now!
I also got some great advice from Charles Moore and
George Nagel
A few things I've found to get even firing temperature top to bottom:
1. A pyrometer with two thermocouples. A digital pyrometer is suggested to
instantly see temperatures top & bottom. I'm using L&L's digital system with
two sheathed thermocouples. Of course use witness cones top & bottom are
necessary.
2. Place bottom shelves on 4" posts. You do lose some space, but it's the
only way I've found to get even firings.
3. Place a small piece of kiln shelf a 1 1/2" to 2" below the flue opening.
Kinda tricky setting this in there but it does help.
4. Set the primary air baffles (the round metal disk on the back of the
burner) to about 1/4" open and use two insulating fire bricks on top of the
lid to close in the flue to regulate temperature top to bottom (more open to
raise temp on top, more closed to raise temp bottom) and to control
reduction.
Let us know how it goes.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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