Dan Saultman on sun 24 jul 05
For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that=20
represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment. =20
This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas=20
the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was=20=
$35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a=20
mug!!
But that is buying a mug from a famous potter. When I commented to one=20=
of the exhibiting potters about the escalated price of mugs at the fair=20=
they broke into the, "It costs a lot of money to make pots and takes a=20=
lot of time. A potter has to recoup their investment and cover their=20
travel...besides I don't like to do mugs=97 they are a lot of work for=20=
little return" I'm sure you've heard the line before.
Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for=20
$35.00? I see single porcelain bowls priced at $35.00. Maybe the art=20
fair pottery trade has sidled up to the jewelry folks. But I fear that=20=
such pricing is leaving a lot of people going home with nothing in=20
their shopping bag. Of course the person buying a pinwheel on a stick=20
is not our customer perhaps, but art pottery has always been a more=20
friendly accessible medium than say sheet-metal sculpture or even blown=20=
glass. Yet nobody blinks at a blown glass mug for $35.00 if you can=20
find one.
In the end my commentary is on the sad disappearance of the $20.00 mug.=20=
I came away from the Ann Arbor Art Fair with a hand painted 6" tile and=20=
a small 3" stoneware coaster each for $20.00. They will end up lost in=20=
a small cupboard somewhere but I ponied up a few dollars to my fellow=20
potters and felt that I had done all my budget could bear.
In a world where there are no nickel candy bars, a gallon of gas is=20
$2.50 and you can't even put a real quarter ion a slot machine it=20
stands to reason that the $20.00 mug would have to be next.
By the way, can you spare $7.00 so I could buy a cup of coffee? Here,=20
put it in my $40.00 mug.
Dan Saultman=
Jeff Guin on sun 24 jul 05
Dear Dan,
At that price I guess I won't be adding any new mugs to my collection. Yes,
the "20 dollar Mug" is, or was, a great way for us poor shmucks to purchase
art. 20 bucks for a mug from a well know potter, or even from an interesting
unknown mudbug, What a deal! Alas, the poor 20 dollar mug is dead. Oh, by
the way....were they selling many mugs?
mudhead99@hotmail.com
>From: Dan Saultman
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: The $40.00 Mug
>Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:00:05 -0400
>
>For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
>represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment. This
>year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas the $20.00
>mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was $35.00. Steven
>Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a mug!!
>But that is buying a mug from a famous potter. When I commented to one of
>the exhibiting potters about the escalated price of mugs at the fair they
>broke into the, "It costs a lot of money to make pots and takes a lot of
>time. A potter has to recoup their investment and cover their
>travel...besides I don't like to do mugs— they are a lot of work for little
>return" I'm sure you've heard the line before.
>
>Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for $35.00?
>I see single porcelain bowls priced at $35.00. Maybe the art fair pottery
>trade has sidled up to the jewelry folks. But I fear that such pricing is
>leaving a lot of people going home with nothing in their shopping bag. Of
>course the person buying a pinwheel on a stick is not our customer perhaps,
>but art pottery has always been a more friendly accessible medium than say
>sheet-metal sculpture or even blown glass. Yet nobody blinks at a blown
>glass mug for $35.00 if you can find one.
>
>In the end my commentary is on the sad disappearance of the $20.00 mug. I
>came away from the Ann Arbor Art Fair with a hand painted 6" tile and a
>small 3" stoneware coaster each for $20.00. They will end up lost in a
>small cupboard somewhere but I ponied up a few dollars to my fellow potters
>and felt that I had done all my budget could bear.
>
>In a world where there are no nickel candy bars, a gallon of gas is $2.50
>and you can't even put a real quarter ion a slot machine it stands to
>reason that the $20.00 mug would have to be next.
>
>By the way, can you spare $7.00 so I could buy a cup of coffee? Here, put
>it in my $40.00 mug.
>
>Dan Saultman
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
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Gordon Ward on sun 24 jul 05
If everyone is actually selling mugs at $35 - $40, I guess that's a =20
good thing for potters.
At those prices I would hope they are gorgeous though.
Gordon
On Jul 24, 2005, at 7:00 AM, Dan Saultman wrote:
> For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that =20
> represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment. =20=
> This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas =20=
> the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was =
=20
> $35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a =20
> mug!!
> But that is buying a mug from a famous potter. When I commented to one =
=20
> of the exhibiting potters about the escalated price of mugs at the =20
> fair they broke into the, "It costs a lot of money to make pots and =20=
> takes a lot of time. A potter has to recoup their investment and cover =
=20
> their travel...besides I don't like to do mugs=97 they are a lot of =
work =20
> for little return" I'm sure you've heard the line before.
>
> Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for =20
> $35.00? I see single porcelain bowls priced at $35.00. Maybe the art =20=
> fair pottery trade has sidled up to the jewelry folks. But I fear that =
=20
> such pricing is leaving a lot of people going home with nothing in =20
> their shopping bag. Of course the person buying a pinwheel on a stick =20=
> is not our customer perhaps, but art pottery has always been a more =20=
> friendly accessible medium than say sheet-metal sculpture or even =20
> blown glass. Yet nobody blinks at a blown glass mug for $35.00 if you =20=
> can find one.
>
> In the end my commentary is on the sad disappearance of the $20.00 =20
> mug. I came away from the Ann Arbor Art Fair with a hand painted 6" =20=
> tile and a small 3" stoneware coaster each for $20.00. They will end =20=
> up lost in a small cupboard somewhere but I ponied up a few dollars to =
=20
> my fellow potters and felt that I had done all my budget could bear.
>
> In a world where there are no nickel candy bars, a gallon of gas is =20=
> $2.50 and you can't even put a real quarter ion a slot machine it =20
> stands to reason that the $20.00 mug would have to be next.
>
> By the way, can you spare $7.00 so I could buy a cup of coffee? Here, =20=
> put it in my $40.00 mug.
>
> Dan Saultman
> =
_______________________________________________________________________=20=
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Tony Ferguson on sun 24 jul 05
Dan,
I think it was Craig Martell who did a cost of living raise analysis from the 1960's $5 mug till present. I recall, with just adjust the cost of living (1 to 3%) or something like that, according to Craig we should be selling our mugs for $40. Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong. But, Craig's thoughts made sense to me and I say if everyone raised the prices of their mugs, its about @#@! time! By gosh, did we raise our standard of living or are we still trying to catch up?
Tony Ferguson
Dan Saultman wrote:
For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment.
This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
$35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
mug!!
But that is buying a mug from a famous potter. When I commented to one
of the exhibiting potters about the escalated price of mugs at the fair
they broke into the, "It costs a lot of money to make pots and takes a
lot of time. A potter has to recoup their investment and cover their
travel...besides I don't like to do mugs— they are a lot of work for
little return" I'm sure you've heard the line before.
Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for
$35.00? I see single porcelain bowls priced at $35.00. Maybe the art
fair pottery trade has sidled up to the jewelry folks. But I fear that
such pricing is leaving a lot of people going home with nothing in
their shopping bag. Of course the person buying a pinwheel on a stick
is not our customer perhaps, but art pottery has always been a more
friendly accessible medium than say sheet-metal sculpture or even blown
glass. Yet nobody blinks at a blown glass mug for $35.00 if you can
find one.
In the end my commentary is on the sad disappearance of the $20.00 mug.
I came away from the Ann Arbor Art Fair with a hand painted 6" tile and
a small 3" stoneware coaster each for $20.00. They will end up lost in
a small cupboard somewhere but I ponied up a few dollars to my fellow
potters and felt that I had done all my budget could bear.
In a world where there are no nickel candy bars, a gallon of gas is
$2.50 and you can't even put a real quarter ion a slot machine it
stands to reason that the $20.00 mug would have to be next.
By the way, can you spare $7.00 so I could buy a cup of coffee? Here,
put it in my $40.00 mug.
Dan Saultman
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
fergy@cpinternet.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
http://www.tonyferguson.net
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Wayne Seidl on sun 24 jul 05
Dan:
Interesting observations. I would have hesitated at spending $40 for
a mug, perhaps though not one of Mr. Hill's, being a bit familiar
with his. It is beautiful work.
My partner called from VT this morning. He went to the Tunbridge
farmer's market on "an expedition" as he calls it (to check it out)
yesterday.
He complained to me about the price of "heritage organic" tomatoes
being sold at $4 per pound, which he (and I) found a bit pricey. He
said that sales were good, though, even at that price. He also
mentioned that there were two potters there selling their work. The
following is a quote from him:
"There were two potters there (and he went on to give names and
their respective locations.) One of them had beautiful, beautiful
work, lots of blues and greens and combinations. (There's that "blue
sells" thing again.) The thing that caught my eye was the blue over
brown, how it ran down the side, like what you were trying to do,
remember? (Guilty as charged.) The other potter had mostly browns
and greens, and his work wasn't as pretty." I asked if the browns
and greens were maybe wood-fired, or gas, and he said no, he didn't
think so, it "didn't look like wood, they both look like electric".
I then asked what the mugs were selling for and he said "$12-15, but
the one that caught my eye (the blue-brown combo) was $12. Is that
a good price?" I said that mugs average between $10-50, from what
I've seen (not that I've been around all that much) and asked him if
he thought $12 was too much for the mug he saw. His response was
priceless...=20
"Well, no, because it's made by hand, and it's local. If it were
down in West Lebanon (NH, at the local Walmart) I wouldn't have even
looked at it."
I'm so proud of that guy . See what education will do? Or is it
my constant ranting? I'm just not sure any more LOL.
Whatever the market will bear, Dan. Personally, I don't have
problems with a $40 mug, but then, I'm looking at it as "maker" not
"buyer". If you can get $40 for a mug, go for it, but as someone on
the list quoted a bit ago "You have to price your work for your
market".
Best,
Wayne Seidl
sweltering in the south
and praying for rain
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dan
Saultman
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:00 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: The $40.00 Mug
For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that=20
represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment. =20
This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug
was=20
$35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a=20
mug!!
But that is buying a mug from a famous potter. When I commented to
one=20
of the exhibiting potters about the escalated price of mugs at the
fair=20
they broke into the, "It costs a lot of money to make pots and takes
a=20
lot of time. A potter has to recoup their investment and cover their
travel...besides I don't like to do mugs- they are a lot of work for
little return" I'm sure you've heard the line before.
Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for=20
$35.00? I see single porcelain bowls priced at $35.00. Maybe the art
fair pottery trade has sidled up to the jewelry folks. But I fear
that=20
such pricing is leaving a lot of people going home with nothing in=20
their shopping bag. Of course the person buying a pinwheel on a
stick=20
is not our customer perhaps, but art pottery has always been a more=20
friendly accessible medium than say sheet-metal sculpture or even
blown=20
glass. Yet nobody blinks at a blown glass mug for $35.00 if you can=20
find one.
In the end my commentary is on the sad disappearance of the $20.00
mug.=20
I came away from the Ann Arbor Art Fair with a hand painted 6" tile
and=20
a small 3" stoneware coaster each for $20.00. They will end up lost
in=20
a small cupboard somewhere but I ponied up a few dollars to my
fellow=20
potters and felt that I had done all my budget could bear.
In a world where there are no nickel candy bars, a gallon of gas is=20
$2.50 and you can't even put a real quarter ion a slot machine it=20
stands to reason that the $20.00 mug would have to be next.
By the way, can you spare $7.00 so I could buy a cup of coffee?
Here,=20
put it in my $40.00 mug.
Dan Saultman
Steve Dalton on sun 24 jul 05
I wish I could get $40 for a mug. Heck, I would be happy for $20!
I really have to justify $12. Yet, here on the West Coast, way up
past Seattle in a small town known to some as Snohomish, I'm
lucky to get $10 without someone whining for a cheaper price!
Go figure! Maybe I'm selling to the wrong crowd. Especially
when they drive up in their brand new 2006 Escalades and carrying
their $5 Big Name coffee shop iced mocha.
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
On Sunday, July 24, 2005, at 07:00 AM, Dan Saultman wrote:
> For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
> represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment.
> This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
> the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
> $35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
> mug!!
> Dan Saultman
Richard Aerni on sun 24 jul 05
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:00:05 -0400, Dan Saultman wrote:
>For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
>represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment.
>This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
>the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
>$35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
>mug!!
Well, I guess if people are willing to pay that much, then the mug is worth
it. I still charge $20 for my mugs, but I wasn't at Ann Arbor this year,
for the first time since 1988. Instead, I was vacationing with my family
and then leisurely making pots in my studio, instead of facing 16 hour days
on the street in either rain or sun, never cool overcast skies. It felt good.
But, in the fair which you visited (the Street Art Fair), most potters
wouldn't get in if mugs were an integral part of their production. That
show looks for the best and the brightest, and most have figured that in
making mugs, they're competing with anyone with the skills to center and
throw one pound of clay. Ann Arbor is a chance to showcase virtuosity,
one's skill in handling clay, and while mugs certainly can contain both of
those, mostly one needs larger work in order to attract a customer's
attention from the 500 other potters showing in town during those four days.
Sorry you didn't get a 20 mug. Give me a call if you still want one.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY 585-429-0211
Andie Plamondon on sun 24 jul 05
1st: my mugs sell for $10 each, and they don't sell often - a $75 platter
will fly off the shelves, but $10 mugs, forget it. I'm happy to send you
one - I have plenty, plenty, plenty around. Maybe if I price them at $35
they would sell better.
2nd: I don't remember the famous person this reference came from, but I do
remember the seniment - 'you can sell 10,000 mugs for $1 each, or 1 mug for
$10,000. It will take the same amount of time and effort.'
When I place work in a store, my main price points tend to be $68 - $99,
because that's what sells. When I go to a craft show, though, I try to have
a range between $10 & $125.
:) Andie Plamondon
Handful of Earth Pottery
Laurel, DE
www.handfulofearth.com
Kathi LeSueur on sun 24 jul 05
Dan Saultman wrote:
> For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
> represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment.
> This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
> the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
> $35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
> mug!!..............
>
> Has the economy reached such a point that a mug has to be sold for $35.00?
> Dan Saultman>>>>>
My mugs are $16 as are those by several other potters I respect. Often
the mug is a person's first entry into the world of buying pottery. I
want it to be affordable. They will take that mug home, use it every
day, and enjoy it. Then they will come back for more pottery and
eventually something that is much more expensive and profitable to me.
But, if that first time buyer can't find anything to buy they won't ever
come back. Their level of sophistication will never be raised and we
will all loose. I look to the buyer down the road. BTW I like making mugs.
Kathi
>
> _
Kathi LeSueur on sun 24 jul 05
Richard Aerni wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:00:05 -0400, Dan Saultman wrote:
>
>Well, I guess if people are willing to pay that much, then the mug is worth
>it. I still charge $20 for my mugs, but I wasn't at Ann Arbor this year,
>for the first time since 1988. Instead, I was vacationing with my family
>and then leisurely making pots in my studio, instead of facing 16 hour days
>on the street in either rain or sun, never cool overcast skies. It felt good.>>>
>
Be glad you weren't there. The heat was unbearable. The humidity was
100% most of the time. Impossible to cool off. Several artists ended up
in the hospital. One is still there in intensive care and they don't
know when they are going to release him. As the average age of the
exhibitor approaches sixty (not kidding, in 1994 the Michigan Guild of
Artists and Artisans survey found the median age to be 47), outdoor
summer fairs age getting downright dangerous to do. Unless there is a
huge influx of young exhibitors, I expect the whole phenomenon to be
over in ten years.
Kathi
>
>
>
>
claybair on mon 25 jul 05
Hey Steve,
I did a little research for you.........
August 02, 2004
Woman will pay $1,000 for Starbucks mug
It has to be the Minneapolis mug. Starbucks' city mugs are an obsession for
Leila Schutz. She owns 270 of them. The most she's paid so far is about
$200 -- "a bargain" -- for a New Orleans mug with a Bourbon Street sign. "I
can't walk by a Starbucks without looking" to see whether a new city has
been introduced, she says. (Los Angeles Times)
.................................
Then I moseyed up to the Starbucks web site and found this:
.
Starbucks Mint Mocha Chip Frappuccino® Blended Coffee
Serving Size 24 fl. oz.
Calories 690
Fat Calories 230
Total Fat (g) 25
Saturated Fat (g) 17
Cholesterol (mg) 70
Sodium (mg) 400
Total Carbohydrates (g) 109
Fiber (g) 3
Sugars (g) 90
Protein (g) 10
Vitamin A 0%
Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 30%
Iron 15%
I think you had better reassess what you are charging for your mugs
or start making ones like starbucks.... hey just change one letter so you
do not have them come after you with their highly caffeinated lawyers!
Be bold..... change the "b" to an "f"....Oops, Sorry, my apologies for those
with
delicate profanity dispositions.
Another little tidbit of info on our coffee city:
http://www.teaandcoffee.net/0900/world.htm
see article
CAFFEINE FOUND IN SEATTLE’S WATER
I guess what I'm intimating is that your mug is hand crafted, with little
effort will last longer than the owner's entire family tree, will not give
him
a coronary, is more environmentally responsible and aesthetically pleasing
than the multitude of paper Starbucks cups he would use in his/her lifetime.
YOU could always give your mugs a Japanese sounding name and hike the
prices up to $60! What's Japanese for "mug"?
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dalton
I wish I could get $40 for a mug. Heck, I would be happy for $20!
I really have to justify $12. Yet, here on the West Coast, way up
past Seattle in a small town known to some as Snohomish, I'm
lucky to get $10 without someone whining for a cheaper price!
Go figure! Maybe I'm selling to the wrong crowd. Especially
when they drive up in their brand new 2006 Escalades and carrying
their $5 Big Name coffee shop iced mocha.
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
On Sunday, July 24, 2005, at 07:00 AM, Dan Saultman wrote:
> For years I have come away from an art fair with several mugs that
> represented a fresh style, new glaze or a unique handle treatment.
> This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
> the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
> $35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
> mug!!
> Dan Saultman
--
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Dan Saultman on mon 25 jul 05
There becomes a difference between a $20.00 mug and a $40.00 mug in my
cupboard.
The $12, $14, $20 mug gets used daily. Oh sure they bang around in the
dishwasher, the teenagers treat them like tin cups in the sink
sometimes when I'm not around. But the $40.00 mug is going into a china
cabinet. I'll pull it out to fondle it and turn it in the light and
marvel at the layers and rivulets. But it's not going to be in the
cupboard with it's poor wonderful cousins. It's going to have to eat
it's lunch all by itself in the china cabinet.
There is nothing wrong with getting $40.00 or $90.00 for a mug. There
is nothing wrong with hairdressers in Hollywood making $1000.00 an hour
doing up Hollywood stars. You work hard, make a name for yourself and
your work can command a higher price. Everyone understands that. All
the power to you. But the boys that work in the warehouse for $8.75 an
hour will be hardpressed to dig into their pockets to let go of half a
days wages for a mug, even for the china cabinet unless it's the
squeezes birthday.
We are also talking about "hand made". That counts for a lot. But it
comes down to functional and usefull as a part of your daily life vs.
functional and usefull on the mantle. A mug on the mantle? Yup, I paid
forty bucks for it.:)
Just as a footnote, every potter exhibiting in Ann Arbor that I
visited, was only displaying 6 or 8 mugs.
I remember when there were racks of mugs to choose from. What happened
there? I'm smelling a bit of reality here. Why doesn't the $40.00 mug
maker display 50 or 60 of them? Because that's a lot of mugs to repack
at the end of the show.
Best wishes to you all. Your comments were a delight.
Dan Saultman
Richard Aerni on mon 25 jul 05
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:45:54 -0400, Dan Saultman wrote:
>Just as a footnote, every potter exhibiting in Ann Arbor that I
>visited, was only displaying 6 or 8 mugs.
>I remember when there were racks of mugs to choose from. What happened
>there? I'm smelling a bit of reality here. Why doesn't the $40.00 mug
>maker display 50 or 60 of them? Because that's a lot of mugs to repack
>at the end of the show.
>
>Best wishes to you all. Your comments were a delight.
Hi Dan,
Just as a comment to your footnote. A well organized display (in my
opinion, and I've been doing shows for better than 25 years now) should show
the range of one's work, without overemphasizing one aspect of it. If all
one made were mugs, then racks of them would be appropriate. But, in most
potter's cases, I would imagine that they produce a range of work, and as
there are only so many "hot" or "attractive" places to display in a booth,
that each potter has to make the decision what to leave out. Mugs are
probably left out in most cases.
I do make mugs (now, there were years when I did not), and I sell them for
what I think is an appropriate price ($20), which gives me some and
hopefully the customer feels he/she has gotten their money's worth. But, I
make my real money on other items, if truth is to be told.
Good luck in your search for your mug...but please don't beat us up because
we don't display what you would like us to!
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Randall Moody on mon 25 jul 05
I have gmail which provides a context sensative search feature. Off to
the side of the $40.00 mug topic I got this link
http://www.discountmugs.com/ceramics.htm advertising $0.53 printed
mugs. Granted that these are not hand made but the price difference is
interesting to note.
How many potters will pay $40.00 for another persons mug and use it everyda=
y?=20
On 7/25/05, Richard Aerni wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:45:54 -0400, Dan Saultman wr=
ote:
>=20
> >Just as a footnote, every potter exhibiting in Ann Arbor that I
> >visited, was only displaying 6 or 8 mugs.
> >I remember when there were racks of mugs to choose from. What happened
> >there? I'm smelling a bit of reality here. Why doesn't the $40.00 mug
> >maker display 50 or 60 of them? Because that's a lot of mugs to repack
> >at the end of the show.
> >
> >Best wishes to you all. Your comments were a delight.
>=20
> Hi Dan,
> Just as a comment to your footnote. A well organized display (in my
> opinion, and I've been doing shows for better than 25 years now) should s=
how
> the range of one's work, without overemphasizing one aspect of it. If al=
l
> one made were mugs, then racks of them would be appropriate. But, in mos=
t
> potter's cases, I would imagine that they produce a range of work, and as
> there are only so many "hot" or "attractive" places to display in a booth=
,
> that each potter has to make the decision what to leave out. Mugs are
> probably left out in most cases.
> I do make mugs (now, there were years when I did not), and I sell them fo=
r
> what I think is an appropriate price ($20), which gives me some and
> hopefully the customer feels he/she has gotten their money's worth. But,=
I
> make my real money on other items, if truth is to be told.
> Good luck in your search for your mug...but please don't beat us up becau=
se
> we don't display what you would like us to!
> Richard Aerni
> Rochester, NY
>=20
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>=20
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Liz Willoughby on mon 25 jul 05
Mug Talk,
We love this discussion because so many of us make mugs. We all have
a different take on why we make them, and how much we sell them for.
I like Kathy's explanation of why she makes mugs, why she likes to
use mugs, and how much she thinks they should sell for.
Many mugs that are $40, I wouldn't use. Many that are $10, I
wouldn't use. I have so many favorites now, it is hard to choose in
the morning which mug to drink from. This is serious business. How
it feels in the hand, the weight, the handle, the size, the glaze,
the FORM.......
My mugs sell for $18 in my showroom.
What I have learned from making mugs, has helped me be a better
potter. Sometimes you have to give a little to make a lot.
Meticky Liz in Grafton, Ontario, Canada
p.s. who took Ron Roy's Glaze Calc class at Loyalist College, and
actually found myself looking forward to calculating glazes. What is
this world coming to? Me who has always been a hands-on person, but
has always read, and read, and read, glaze recipes, and information
about our materials, now finds that it isn't really difficult to
learn glaze calculation, using software. So folks, listen up, if I
can do it, so can you.
>Dan Saultman wrote:
>>
>>This year at the Ann Arbor Art Fair the selections were few and alas
>>the $20.00 mug was nowhere to be found. The lowest price for a mug was
>>$35.00. Steven Hill's mugs were beautiful and $40.00. $40.00 for a
>>mug!!..............
>
>
>My mugs are $16 as are those by several other potters I respect. Often
>the mug is a person's first entry into the world of buying pottery. I
>want it to be affordable. They will take that mug home, use it every
>day, and enjoy it. Then they will come back for more pottery and
>eventually something that is much more expensive and profitable to me.
>But, if that first time buyer can't find anything to buy they won't ever
>come back. Their level of sophistication will never be raised and we
>will all loose. I look to the buyer down the road. BTW I like making mugs.
>
>Kathi
Darlene Yarnetsky-Mudcat Pottery on mon 25 jul 05
Wayne wrote (in part)
> "Well, no, because it's made by hand, and it's local. If it were
> down in West Lebanon (NH, at the local Walmart) I wouldn't have even
> looked at it."
> I'm so proud of that guy . See what education will do?
Speaking along those lines...
I had a couple of friends' kids in recently and we spent a morning
playing with slabs together. Just before they left the kids took a
look around at the finished pots for sale and went up to a big brown
sculpture made from slabs. They read the price and the older one
(13) said for all of that work it was worth it!
Some of my best customers are people who have tried pottery or have a
friend who is a potter.
Darlene Yarnetsky
Tom at Hutchtel on mon 25 jul 05
The $40 mug.....yes it's here folks. I guess I'd pay $40 for a S. Hill
mug...if I though it was good. Hell, I paid $60 for a Coleman Whiskey cup
at Tony and Ernest's workshop last fall and am using it for tea this
morning. But we sell our mugs at $15 at shows and $8.00 wholesale.
And there's one of the clues to the $40 mug. If a potter sells wholesale,
the mug she sells at $10 is going to end up at $22 to $25 on the shop shelf.
Admittedly she didn't have to travel to and stand in the hot sun at a street
fair, so there is some compensation.
But shops specializing in handmade are selling mugs at well over $20 retail.
I think potters at street fairs, cave too much to the price pressure put on
by customers and their own psychology just to make a sale. And the
customers know that pressure is on. It's part of the game. We've certainly
seen that a casserole that has reached its price point at $55 on the street,
will sell for $75 in a gallery.
Glassblowers over the last 10 years or so kept raising their prices and
finally got to a point where their sales started falling. And once you've
crossed that line, I suspect that it's very hard to get the customer back.
...except for the well-known names. They charge almost anything....limited
supply and collectability. Seems that comes on after you've been at it for
maybe 20 years.
We all choose our path and philosophies, for making pots and pricing them.
If you hear lots of people saying your prices are very reasonable, you need
to raise them. If stuff sits on the shelves, it's more complex. Is the
work good, is the market (or day) soft, is the price right, etc. Is the
booth laid out right? Much tougher to tell. The biggest sign for us is
when a customer picks up a piece, is obviously interested, check the price
and immediately puts it down. If this happens repeatedly, it's overpriced.
The underlying current in this discussion is, what's this all about? Making
pots or making money. I know...It's both. Can't make pots if you don't
make money. So we all walk a line trying to balance it as best we can.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
>>I remember when there were racks of mugs to choose from. What happened
>>there? I'm smelling a bit of reality here. Why doesn't the $40.00 mug
>>maker display 50 or 60 of them? Because that's a lot of mugs to repack
>>at the end of the show.
Greg Marshall on mon 25 jul 05
Well, I guess we are really out of touch here in Manitou Springs,
Colorado. I sell my work at a local artist's co-op. There are 12 potters
in the co-op. I sell a small (about 6 ounce) mug for $14.00, a 8 ounce mug
for $16.00, and a 12+ ounce beer mug for $22.00. My prices are pretty much
average for the co-op and for the area. I sell a lot of mugs and during
the summer I can hardly keep the beer mugs in stock. Oh, and I like making
mugs and think they look and feel good.
Greg at the foot of Pikes Peak where our week long weather of temperatures
near 100 degrees has finally broken and we are back in the 80's.
Gordon Ward on mon 25 jul 05
Strive to do your best and don't think about the money while you work.
Thinking about money usually screws up your priorities as an artist.
Learn something from the doing. Make little changes. Try a slightly
different variation. Go ahead and back-fill your pulled handles. Make
beautiful, thoughtfully made ware. When you can't keep the pots on the
shelf, you might raise the price a little. You might find yourself
making $40 mugs in the end and be doing a world of good for your
reputation as a potter.
Happy potting,
Gordon
Steve Irvine on mon 25 jul 05
I make both tea bowls and coffee mugs in every firing. I work on a three week cycle; two weeks of
making things, and one week of firings and glazing. At the start of each cycle I make some tea
bowls, and at the end I make coffee mugs.
The tea bowls help to get me re-centred (the clay centering the potter?) with what I think about
clay and what I want to do with it in the coming weeks. We are talking prices, my tea bowls sell for
$100. each.
At the end of the making cycle the final things I make are coffee mugs. After two weeks of
shepherding the more involved pieces along, it's nice to spend an afternoon just getting into the
rhythm of throwing the same basic form over and over. They sort of resolve the making cycle for
me. My coffee mugs sell for $17.50 each.
Is it worth it making them at that price? I honestly can't say. There are so many ways of looking at
it. On the surface, getting paid $17.50 for one pound of clay, plus five minutes work sounds pretty
good, but as a little exercise once I tried to trace that one pound of clay from the time the clay
delivery truck pulled up outside, until I handed the mug over to a customer. I think it was 35 times
that the pound of clay was picked up and put down. My teacher at Sheridan, Angela Fina, defined a
potter as, "Someone who spends all of their time picking things up and moving them somewhere
else."
One thing I have noticed is that people have more of an emotional attachment to their favourite
mug than any other kind of pot. Maybe this is the main reason I keep making them.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:45:54 -0400, Dan Saultman wrote:
>We are also talking about "hand made". That counts for a lot. But it
>comes down to functional and usefull as a part of your daily life vs.
>functional and usefull on the mantle. A mug on the mantle? Yup, I paid
>forty bucks for it.:)
Dan,
To quote Ned Flanders: "Don't touch Maggie! Those figurines aren't for enjoying, they're for
collecting!"
Steve
http://www.steveirvine.com
Lee Love on tue 26 jul 05
From: Tony Ferguson wrote:
> I think it was Craig Martell who did a cost of living raise analysis
from the
> 1960's $5 mug till present. I recall, with just adjust the cost of
living (1 to 3%) or
>something like that, according to Craig we should be selling our mugs
for $40.
My handled cups range from $14.00 to $40.00, all woodfired.
The price depends upon the size (demitasse to large beer stein) and the
kind of clay used (mashiko glaze, shino, unglazed shigaraki.)
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"We can make our minds so like still water that beings gather about us
that they may see,
it may be, their own images, and so live for a moment with a clearer,
perhaps even with a fiercer life because of our quiet."
-- W.B. Yeats
.
John Baymore on wed 27 jul 05
Gayle,
What's Japanese for "mug"?
It often refered to as "moningu kapu" . Pronounced sort of like "MOE -
NIN -Goo KAH -Poo" with the final "U"'s voiced but almost silent. A
typical "Japenglish" transliteration.... literal coming from "morning cup".
The Japanese DO love their coffee. And like their common obsession
with "quality" in lots of life's pursuits....... particularly when it
comes to food and drink..... they have some great coffee there. The
closest stuff that I have had here in America to coffee I was frequently
served in Japan is in the $20 to $25 a pound range here.
And as to coffee mugs..... interestingly the Japanese potters typically
don't make very good "pulled" handles. They don't have the long history
of making them and using them, I guess. I have some great video footage I
shot during my residency in Japan last summer of one of the other
residents during one of our many impromptu sharings of techniques. It is
our own Tony Clennell showing a group of Japanese and Korean potters how
to pull handles.
BTW... as I have wandered around Japan over a number of years.......
Star*ucks is everywhere and the number of them is growing each time I
go back (along with Dunkin Donuts, KFC, and Micky D's). So is the number
of obese Japanese that I see. Coincidence?
best,
..................john
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
"Please use compuserve address for direct conmmunications."
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