MaryAnn Diorio on sun 31 jul 05
Hello, everyone,
I am new to this list and relatively new to creating pottery. I am looking
for a good potter's wheel and kiln for my home studio and would appreciate
the any advice.
Thanks very much!
MaryAnn Diorio
www.maryanndiorio.com
William & Susan Schran User on mon 1 aug 05
On 7/31/05 8:42 PM, "MaryAnn Diorio" wrote:
> I am new to this list and relatively new to creating pottery. I am looking
> for a good potter's wheel and kiln for my home studio and would appreciate
> the any advice.
First advice would be to search the archives for comments on various wheels
& kilns.
I assume you are seeking advise on electric kilns. Do you want a
programmable or manual kiln? How big? How big will you pots be? To what
temperature will you be firing? Ask yourself these questions before
deciding.
IMHO, I believe beginning potters should get a kiln with manual controls,
pyrometer, kiln sitter and use witness cones. I think those folks just
starting out will use the programmable controller as a "start it and forget
it" device and when there are issues with firing results, will have a more
difficult time understanding and resolving them. Of course I still drive
cars with manual transmissions.
I believe most top loading electric kilns are fairly comparable these days,
but for quality, ease of repair, reliability and customer service, I
recommend L&L kilns.
For cost/quality factors, I suggest looking into either Pacifica or Axner
wheels.
In the spirit of public disclosure, I own a Pacfica electric wheel, built
from a kit in the 1970's and we have Axner & Brent wheels at school.
I own a L&L kiln in my studio and all of our 6 electric kilns at school are
L&L.
I have worked with and repaired several brands of wheels & kilns over 30
years
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
karen gringhuis on mon 1 aug 05
Maryann -
Bill Schran wrote:
>IMHO, I believe beginning potters should get a kiln
with manual controls, pyrometer, kiln sitter and use
witness cones. I think those folks just starting out
will use the programmable controller as a "start it
and forget it" device and when there are issues with
firing results, will have a more difficult time
understanding and resolving them. Of course I still
drive cars with manual transmissions.<
Though only a Porsche would get me back to a manual
transmission, I totally agree with Bill's point here -
I want to be able to totally call the shot firing up
AND cooling down. But aren't there some computer
controllers which one can override? Maybe this is the
answer.
>for quality, ease of repair, reliability and customer
service, I
recommend L&L kilns.<
I, too, have an L & L J230 and the porcelain element
holders are fantastic even tho I don't replace my
elements myself. That said, if you are really serious
about this whole endeavor, I would advise buying the
most insulation you can possible afford. If I had it
to do over again, I would want board between the metal
shell and the bricks. I would also want elements in
the floor (which I don't have) on the assumption they
help the bottom fire evenly with the top tiers.
Bailey makes such a kiln and L & L may also. Yes, I
fire to C/10 so insulation is a major concern.
My wheel is a Soldner and I love it.
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Earl Brunner on mon 1 aug 05
I advocate for a kick wheel as well. Motors tend to complicate the throwing process for beginners. They tend to have a hard time becoming "one with the clay" when it's all mechanized.......
Bill Schran wrote:
>IMHO, I believe beginning potters should get a kiln
with manual controls, pyrometer, kiln sitter and use
witness cones. I think those folks just starting out
will use the programmable controller as a "start it
and forget it" device and when there are issues with
firing results, will have a more difficult time
understanding and resolving them. Of course I still
drive cars with manual transmissions.<
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
William & Susan Schran User on mon 1 aug 05
On 8/1/05 2:46 PM, "karen gringhuis" wrote:
> I want to be able to totally call the shot firing up
> AND cooling down. But aren't there some computer
> controllers which one can override? Maybe this is the
> answer.
Sure, they can be overridden. One of our L&L's at school is programmable.
We fire crystalline glazes in this kiln and make changes all the time
according to the progression of the firing.
>I would also want elements in
>the floor (which I don't have) on the assumption they
>help the bottom fire evenly with the top tiers.
>Bailey makes such a kiln and L & L may also.
Yes, L&L kilns can have an element in the floor as an option.
I have not found it necessary in the 23" models, but would recommend it for
29" models.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Steve Slatin on mon 1 aug 05
MaryAnn (apologies to others, who've seen me fulmiate
on this subject --
Most wheels come with removable splash pans. This
makes it easier to clean them, many people think.
Some Thomas Stuart wheels come with removable wheel
heads; you pull the head off and can clean the
(sturdy, lifetime, metal, immovable) splash pan in
situ. They also have one design I saw with a round
splash pan that I guess you can pull by removing the
wheel head, and then wash it separately.
CI, Pacifica, Brent, newer Shimpos, use removable
splash pans. Sometimes these (plastic or whatever)
pans crack or simply wear out. That's bad, but they
are fairly cheap to replace. Some manufacturers have
made very thin splash pans from time to time; they may
crack and give you some heartburn. Lockerbie makes an
electric wheel with a removable metal splash
pan, both durable and easy to clean, but it's small
and doesn't catch as much splash as some other wheels.
How important is the splash pan to you? Which style
do you prefer?
For some people, vibrations and noise are a big issue.
Shimpo makes some really quiet wheels. I think
Thomas Stuart makes a very smooth wheel (they have a
BIG honking motor) but it's not nearly as quiet as the
Shimpo. The electric Lockerbie is pretty smooth,
pretty quiet, and a little expensive.
Vibration and noise may or may not be important to you
-- it's your call.
Wheels also have different amounts of torque. You
want a motor strong enough not to have unwanted speed
changes when you center, throw, etc. Almost all
manufacturers have multiple models with different size
motors. Most modern controllers (foot pedals)
have feedback circuits, and adjust power to control
velocity reductions. There are also
different types of pedals, some have physical
connections to rheostats, others have
the speed control governed by the distance a magnet is
moved from a circuit -- so the dust and dirt in your
studio won't interfere with a smooth pedal motion.
CI makes a very small wheel that's portable, and
doesn't come with legs -- it has a controller on the
side that you move by hand -- some folks like it,
others don't. If you need to put your wheel away,
it's pretty much the only game in town. It's also
inexpensive, but if you need a foot pedal controller
and legs it starts to rise towards the cost of other
wheels. Brent makes a range of wheels; the least
expensive is light but not built as sturdily as the
heavier units and seems to vibrate more than I like,
but it's light enough to move. The more costly
Brents are sturdy and powerful, and are used in many
teaching environments because they are nearly
indestructible.
For some people it's important to have a wheel that
moves freely without power (i.e., you can turn it a
little by hand with the motor off, or even spin it,
and use it as a banding wheel). There's only a few
that do this. Shimpo's VL-whisper is one.
Probably more important is wheel height and position.
The shape of the work surface of a wheel governs how
closely you can sit, and the height of most wheels is
fixed. If you don't 'fit' the wheel, you won't be
comfortable with it no matter how good the wheel may
be in the abstract.
Then, some wheels have better workspace than others.
The Lockerbie has a big, rounded aluminum surface. The
Shimpo Whispers have a nice workspace. The Bailey
design has a really big splash pan, and an optional
shelf that fits above the wheel.
For myself, I have a Pacifica and I am very used to it
and can hardly think of working with anything else.
It is the right height for me, and I can get close
enough to get into the position I need to throw
comfortably. I find it quiet and smooth, and the
pedal works so smoothly that I don't think about my
speed while I'm throwing something tall, I just adjust
it as needed and it seems like it's no effort.
(After using it for maybe 8 months, I adjusted the
screw that tightens the pedal against the base a half
turn. It's the only adjustment I ever made.) But
I've only thrown extensively on the Pacifica, Brent
B's, and old (ring-cone) Shimpos.
Go to the nearest pottery dealer with a good display,
and sit at a few wheels. See how they differ, turn
them on and see how the speed controller works. Make
sure you're comfortable with a wheel before you buy.
This is one of the advantages to working with
a local dealer. You might even save as much on
shipping by buying locally as you spend extra with a
local dealer.
For pretty much any of the major manufacturers, you
can consider it a long-term to lifetime investment.
When you've worked your way through the process a
little further -- lets say, to the point that you find
that you like one wheel's size and shape but another's
options and power, you can post a specific question
here that people will be quick to weigh in on.
-- Steve Slatin
--- MaryAnn Diorio wrote:
> Hello, everyone,
>
> I am new to this list and relatively new to creating
> pottery. I am looking
> for a good potter's wheel and kiln for my home
> studio and would appreciate
> the any advice.
>
> Thanks very much!
> MaryAnn Diorio
Steve Slatin --
Drove downtown in the rain
9:30 on a Tuesday night
Just to check out the
Late night record shop
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Ron Roy on mon 1 aug 05
I would recommend a kiln with a controller - right at the start. Just make
sure you have someone who can tell you how it works. You can do anything
you want with a modern controller.
I certainly would also recommend programming your own ramps right from the
start.
I don't know why the pre programmed ramps are so dumb - I guess they
weren't programmed by potters.
If you spend the extra money on a sitter and a pyrometer - well it makes it
that much more expensive when and if you decide to upgrade to a controller.
The best part of a controller is you can hold temperature any where you
want to - at 100C to dry ware out, a slow rise over night, a hold at the
end of the firing while the cones drop - and easy to slow cool.
No doubt in my mind - the controller is the way it should have been from
the start.
I do agree that witness cones should be used - at different levels in every
new kiln - and I would never recommend using a controller as a start and
forget it device. The unfortunate part about kiln sitters - they invite
people to use them as a shut off device - there should be a soak function
built into them.
Get a controller!
RR
>Bill Schran wrote:
>
>>IMHO, I believe beginning potters should get a kiln
>with manual controls, pyrometer, kiln sitter and use
>witness cones. I think those folks just starting out
>will use the programmable controller as a "start it
>and forget it" device and when there are issues with
>firing results, will have a more difficult time
>understanding and resolving them. Of course I still
>drive cars with manual transmissions.<
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Jim Willett on mon 1 aug 05
MaryAnn wrote:
..........."I am new to this list and relatively new to creating pottery. I
am looking for a good potter's wheel and kiln for my home studio and would
appreciate the any advice".....
MaryAnn,
Before someone suggests you must dig your own clay to really understand the
process , we thought we would give some alternative suggestions. Since
you will be living with this kiln for years (we still have Cindy's first
kiln which is 15 years old) we would suggest you get one with a good
computerized controller and multiple zones (3 thermocouples). Your witness
cones will tell you what is happening in the kiln and with proper automation
you can fine tune your firings much more easily, and then get repeatable
results. We are partial to ConeArt kilns, we have three with another on
order, they are well constructed, well insulated, come with Bartlett
controllers which allow you to program up to 16 steps of heating, cooling,
holding, delay firing, whatever. Sure you won't need all that at the
beginning but why limit yourself when making a major purchase like this that
you are going to live with for years? We have found ConeArt kilns very
reasonably priced as well.
Wheels are a more personal thing. Steve's suggestion to try several on for
fit was probably the best. If we were buying a wheel today it would be one
of the new Shimpo VL Whispers, but we can't seem to make the old Shimpo
RK-2s wear out. They just keep cranking. There are many excellent wheels on
the market and you should "test drive " them. Find a Pottery Supplier who
will work with you on this. The good ones will.
Jim
Out of the Fire Studio
Edmonton, Alberta (where the "partly cloudy" is running down the gutters in
torrents)
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
http://potblog.outofthefirestudio.com
William & Susan Schran User on tue 2 aug 05
On 8/1/05 11:00 PM, "Ron Roy" wrote:
> I would recommend a kiln with a controller - right at the start. Just make
> sure you have someone who can tell you how it works. You can do anything
> you want with a modern controller.
After recommending new potters purchase manual kilns, I have to take a step
back and say that I essentially agree with what Ron writes. The problem
being, that it's not all that easy to find someone that can "tell you how it
works".
I then checked L&L's web site and saw they have an instructional CD, with
video, on using their "Easy-Fire" programmable kilns. This should provide
"newbies" with beginning guidance for firing.
So now I have to say: programmable controller is also the way to go, still
using witness cones, thermocouples at each level and a vent!
But I'm not buying a car with automatic transmission!
I've also written to Stephen Lewicki, President of L&L suggesting a preset
on their controller that follows firing schedule recommended in MC6G and
including a copy of the book with the kiln.
--
William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Carole Fox on tue 2 aug 05
Maryann - looks like you've already received some good advice. I would re-
emphasize that your kiln will last a very long time, so you need to think
about what your needs will be at least 5 years out, maybe even longer. I
know this is hard. However, from my own experience, I really wish I had
purchased a larger kiln, and one with a controller rather than just the
sitter & timer. In my case, I bought a kiln in brand new condition, which
another potter had bought but never used (it still had packing material on
it). On face value, it was a great bargain- way less than half of what
the same model would have cost from a supplier - but given that I outgrew
it in literally months, it wasn't a great long term investment. And, yes,
I could have added on a controller, but it didn't make sense to do that on
a kiln that was too small anyway. Hopefully you can benefit by learning
from my mistake. Think about the quantity, style, and size of work you
plan (or would like) to make for the next several years before you commit
to buying.
Carole Fox
Dayton, OH
| |
|
