Marcia Selsor on mon 8 aug 05
So Lee, What is the story about the Korean/Japanese Pottery Wars from
the middle Ages? It is difficult to find info about it.
About 25 years ago I had a student do a research paper on it.
Basically, the story was that the Korean Potters were kidnapped by
the Japanese in order to bring the craft to Japan. Do you have any
insight about this story?
Marcia Selsor
in Montana
On Aug 8, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> --- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Overall's wrote:
>
> > he called them `korean farm pots`. he said that they had no
> place in
> the modern world "
>
> > HEY! I resemble that remark (being part Korean and Hawaiian
> > and Scotch, English and Irish, too.. acronym: SHIEK)
>
> Kim, The more I hear from Mel about him, the more have to wonder
> about Honorable Mr. Uchida-san Sensei's eye. ;-)
>
> The best potters in Japan have always tried to copy Korean
> farm pots and rarely succeed. Korean Yi is the Gold Standard for
> "feeling" in pots. I look to these pots as my main inspiration.
>
> My most memorable day of my apprenticeship was unpacking my
> teacher's collection of Korean "Farm pots." I got a chance to
> handle
> the pots I had only previously seen in catalogs and in museums.
> They
> are even more impressive when you can touch them.
>
> Mashiko pots don't follow one style. The day Hamada
> arrive is the day Mashiko was reborn. Hamada brought creative
> freedom
> to Mashiko. Many people who learned elsewhere in Japan, come to
> Mashiko. A Kyoto couple told me, if they stayed in Kyoto, they
> would
> have only been able to use a certain kind of clay and certain glazes,
> the same ones their teacher used, or else no one would buy their pots.
> Mashiko has always been welcoming to foreigners too.
>
> Check out this Korean collection from the Osaka Museum of Oriental
> Ceramics. I first saw pots from this collection in Chicago at
> the Art
> Institute. Today, the collection is much larger because of
> Dr.RHEE
> Byung-Chang's donation of his collection to the museum.
>
> "In the 17 years since the Museum was founded, we have been able to
> continue to increase the size of our collection through the generosity
> of a large number of donors; including the Ataka Collection, the
> Museum
> now houses some 2000 pieces of Oriental ceramics. In particular, the
> donation in 1999 of the RHEE Byung-Chang Collection of Korean ceramics
> enabled us to significantly enrich the content of our collection of
> Korean ceramics. "
>
> Read more about Dr. Rhee below my signature. He worked to enhance
> understanding and friendship between Korea and Japan, Just like Yanagi
> did. See the collection here:
>
> http://www.moco.or.jp/en/colle/colle/Korea_B/frame.html
>
> Main index here: http://www.moco.or.jp/en/index.html
>
> --
> Lee Love
> in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
>
>
> "Dr. RHEE Byung-Chang is a Korean national who has lived in Japan
> since
> 1949. His career included serving as a diplomat, obtaining a doctorate
> in economics, and operating a trading company. Dr. RHEE spent half of
> his life assembling a collection of 301 pieces of Korean ceramics
> and 50
> pieces of Chinese ceramics. He spent a long time carefully considering
> where to leave his collection and how to put it to the best use; as a
> result of his deliberation, he decided to donate the entire collection
> to the Museum of Oriental Ceramics, Osaka. His goal is to provide a
> source of courage and pride to Koreans living in Japan, and also to
> tell
> the world about the object of his boundless passion, the beauty and
> fascination of Korean ceramics. To help realize this goal, Dr. RHEE
> also
> donated land and a house he owned and lived in for many years in
> Moto-azabu, Minato Ward, Tokyo to the Museum to provide funds for
> research of Korean ceramics. In terms of quality, Dr. RHEE's
> collection
> of Korean ceramics is among the world's top private collections. The
> addition of the Rhee Collection to the Ataka Collection is of
> immeasurable value in enriching the quality of the Museum's overall
> collection. Thanks to the generosity of Dr. RHEE Byung-Chang and his
> wife, Dr. Madeleine KIM, the Museum of Oriental Ceramics, Osaka is now
> the world's foremost center for the appreciation and research of
> Korean
> ceramics outside of Korea itself."
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Steve Slatin on mon 8 aug 05
You know Lee, you remind me here of that awful
recurrent late night sketch (was it Sat'd Night Live?)
of the "All Scots Shop" -- official motto,
"If is inna Scots, it's crap!"
The endless droning about your personal dislike
of everything non-Mashiko because of the inherent
superiority of everything from Mashiko (where, it
is said, DESHI'S ARE KEPT ON A NEED TO KNOW
BASIS! YES! IT'S TRUE!) frankly, get a little old.
If you can't appreciate anything that anyone else
writes about anything else, perhaps you should
experiment with the delete key, as opposed to writing
about every little thing you think is inferior to
Mashiko.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- Lee Love wrote:
> --- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Overall's
> wrote:
>
> > he called them `korean farm pots`. he said that
> they had no place in
> the modern world "
>
> > HEY! I resemble that remark (being part Korean
> and Hawaiian
> > and Scotch, English and Irish, too.. acronym:
> SHIEK)
>
> Kim, The more I hear from Mel about him, the
> more have to wonder
> about Honorable Mr. Uchida-san Sensei's eye. ;-)
>
> The best potters in Japan have always
> tried to copy Korean
> farm pots and rarely succeed. Korean Yi is the
> Gold Standard for
> "feeling" in pots. I look to these pots as my
> main inspiration.
>
> My most memorable day of my
> apprenticeship was unpacking my
> teacher's collection of Korean "Farm pots." I got
> a chance to handle
> the pots I had only previously seen in catalogs and
> in museums. They
> are even more impressive when you can touch them.
>
> Mashiko pots don't follow one style.
> The day Hamada
> arrive is the day Mashiko was reborn. Hamada
> brought creative freedom
> to Mashiko. Many people who learned elsewhere in
> Japan, come to
> Mashiko. A Kyoto couple told me, if they stayed
> in Kyoto, they would
> have only been able to use a certain kind of clay
> and certain glazes,
> the same ones their teacher used, or else no one
> would buy their pots.
> Mashiko has always been welcoming to foreigners too.
>
> Check out this Korean collection from the Osaka
> Museum of Oriental
> Ceramics. I first saw pots from this collection
> in Chicago at the Art
> Institute. Today, the collection is much larger
> because of Dr.RHEE
> Byung-Chang's donation of his collection to the
> museum.
>
> "In the 17 years since the Museum was founded, we
> have been able to
> continue to increase the size of our collection
> through the generosity
> of a large number of donors; including the Ataka
> Collection, the Museum
> now houses some 2000 pieces of Oriental ceramics. In
> particular, the
> donation in 1999 of the RHEE Byung-Chang Collection
> of Korean ceramics
> enabled us to significantly enrich the content of
> our collection of
> Korean ceramics. "
>
> Read more about Dr. Rhee below my signature. He
> worked to enhance
> understanding and friendship between Korea and
> Japan, Just like Yanagi
> did. See the collection here:
>
>
http://www.moco.or.jp/en/colle/colle/Korea_B/frame.html
>
> Main index here:
> http://www.moco.or.jp/en/index.html
>
> --
> Lee Love
> in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
>
>
> "Dr. RHEE Byung-Chang is a Korean national who has
> lived in Japan since
> 1949. His career included serving as a diplomat,
> obtaining a doctorate
> in economics, and operating a trading company. Dr.
> RHEE spent half of
> his life assembling a collection of 301 pieces of
> Korean ceramics and 50
> pieces of Chinese ceramics. He spent a long time
> carefully considering
> where to leave his collection and how to put it to
> the best use; as a
> result of his deliberation, he decided to donate the
> entire collection
> to the Museum of Oriental Ceramics, Osaka. His goal
> is to provide a
> source of courage and pride to Koreans living in
> Japan, and also to tell
> the world about the object of his boundless passion,
> the beauty and
> fascination of Korean ceramics. To help realize this
> goal, Dr. RHEE also
> donated land and a house he owned and lived in for
> many years in
> Moto-azabu, Minato Ward, Tokyo to the Museum to
> provide funds for
> research of Korean ceramics. In terms of quality,
> Dr. RHEE's collection
> of Korean ceramics is among the world's top private
> collections. The
> addition of the Rhee Collection to the Ataka
> Collection is of
> immeasurable value in enriching the quality of the
> Museum's overall
> collection. Thanks to the generosity of Dr. RHEE
> Byung-Chang and his
> wife, Dr. Madeleine KIM, the Museum of Oriental
> Ceramics, Osaka is now
> the world's foremost center for the appreciation and
> research of Korean
> ceramics outside of Korea itself."
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Slatin --
Drove downtown in the rain
9:30 on a Tuesday night
Just to check out the
Late night record shop
__________________________________________________
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Overall's on mon 8 aug 05
"mr. uchida could not stand mashiko pots.
he called them `korean farm pots`. he said
that they had no place in the modern world "
HEY!
I resemble that remark
(being part Korean and Hawaiian
and Scotch, English and Irish, too..
acronym: SHIEK)
Kim Overall
Houston, TX
John Baymore on tue 9 aug 05
I have been around Japan a bit over the past number of years. There
certainly are "crap pots" produced in Mashiko. The Hamada "knock-offs"
abound. BUT...... there are also crap pots produced in Kasama, Shigaraki,
Bizen, Kyoto, and so on and so on and so on. Mashiko is no different than
the others in that regard.
But that being said..... there are also absolutely GREAT pots being
produced in Mashiko......... and all those other locations too. Depends on
whose work you look at.
I agree with Lee-san that one of Mashiko's stregnths (thanks to Hamada-
sensei) is that there is no longer a "Mashiko style" there. The diversity
of the work produced in Mashiko is amazing. And gaijin are very welcome
there as potters........ which continues the broadening of the work
produced. Mashiko is almost an "international" pottery center now .
Mashiko is certainly the most "alive and vibrant" of the pottery villages
that I have been in. And it is constantly growing. Each time I go
back.... the development is evident. There's a downside to this too. I
miss the old narrow winding main street. It is becoming the Japanese
equivalent of "a bit yuppified" for my tastes. But then again... Japan is
hastilly chasing "Western Values" at a dizzying pace everywhere..... and
losing a lot of it's identity in the process.
At the same time.... it is also a shame that there isn't still
much "tradition" left in Mashiko....... but that is true in most everything
in Japan. Onda Sarayama is maybe the most "traditional" place left.....
and that is changing fast too since they have been "discovered". (I can buy
Onda pots now in Boston. )
Uchida-san is (was?) a product of his culture, his time, and his
upbringing. It would not surprise me that he did not like the general trend
in a lot of Mashiko work at the time mel-san was in Kyoto (long while
ago). Doesn't mean Uchida-san was right or wrong..... just that he had an
opinion. One has to take the opinion....weigh it... turn it around and
look at it from all sides... and come to a personal conclusion. And I
think that Uchida-sensei's message was not "Mashiko-machi or Korean pots
are bad."....... but more like "Look to develop the future, not to staying
stuck in the past."
You ALSO have to remember here that the Japanese looked down upon the
Koreans....... and that could have colored Uchida-san's thoughts on the
choice of words too. Cultural "norms" are easily ingrained and hard to
break out of.
And I personally like qualities of "Korean Farm Pots" a lot too. Had the
pleasure once of having chado from a "national treasure" old Korean rice
bowl bowl ....... stunning.
What I personally "take" from "Korean Farm Pots" is the simplicity and
directness of the execution and the truth to materials.... not try
to "make "Korean Farm Pots".
best,
.................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
"Please use compuserve address for direct communications."
Lee Love on tue 9 aug 05
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Overall's wrote:
> he called them `korean farm pots`. he said that they had no place in
the modern world "
> HEY! I resemble that remark (being part Korean and Hawaiian
> and Scotch, English and Irish, too.. acronym: SHIEK)
Kim, The more I hear from Mel about him, the more have to wonder
about Honorable Mr. Uchida-san Sensei's eye. ;-)
The best potters in Japan have always tried to copy Korean
farm pots and rarely succeed. Korean Yi is the Gold Standard for
"feeling" in pots. I look to these pots as my main inspiration.
My most memorable day of my apprenticeship was unpacking my
teacher's collection of Korean "Farm pots." I got a chance to handle
the pots I had only previously seen in catalogs and in museums. They
are even more impressive when you can touch them.
Mashiko pots don't follow one style. The day Hamada
arrive is the day Mashiko was reborn. Hamada brought creative freedom
to Mashiko. Many people who learned elsewhere in Japan, come to
Mashiko. A Kyoto couple told me, if they stayed in Kyoto, they would
have only been able to use a certain kind of clay and certain glazes,
the same ones their teacher used, or else no one would buy their pots.
Mashiko has always been welcoming to foreigners too.
Check out this Korean collection from the Osaka Museum of Oriental
Ceramics. I first saw pots from this collection in Chicago at the Art
Institute. Today, the collection is much larger because of Dr.RHEE
Byung-Chang's donation of his collection to the museum.
"In the 17 years since the Museum was founded, we have been able to
continue to increase the size of our collection through the generosity
of a large number of donors; including the Ataka Collection, the Museum
now houses some 2000 pieces of Oriental ceramics. In particular, the
donation in 1999 of the RHEE Byung-Chang Collection of Korean ceramics
enabled us to significantly enrich the content of our collection of
Korean ceramics. "
Read more about Dr. Rhee below my signature. He worked to enhance
understanding and friendship between Korea and Japan, Just like Yanagi
did. See the collection here:
http://www.moco.or.jp/en/colle/colle/Korea_B/frame.html
Main index here: http://www.moco.or.jp/en/index.html
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Dr. RHEE Byung-Chang is a Korean national who has lived in Japan since
1949. His career included serving as a diplomat, obtaining a doctorate
in economics, and operating a trading company. Dr. RHEE spent half of
his life assembling a collection of 301 pieces of Korean ceramics and 50
pieces of Chinese ceramics. He spent a long time carefully considering
where to leave his collection and how to put it to the best use; as a
result of his deliberation, he decided to donate the entire collection
to the Museum of Oriental Ceramics, Osaka. His goal is to provide a
source of courage and pride to Koreans living in Japan, and also to tell
the world about the object of his boundless passion, the beauty and
fascination of Korean ceramics. To help realize this goal, Dr. RHEE also
donated land and a house he owned and lived in for many years in
Moto-azabu, Minato Ward, Tokyo to the Museum to provide funds for
research of Korean ceramics. In terms of quality, Dr. RHEE's collection
of Korean ceramics is among the world's top private collections. The
addition of the Rhee Collection to the Ataka Collection is of
immeasurable value in enriching the quality of the Museum's overall
collection. Thanks to the generosity of Dr. RHEE Byung-Chang and his
wife, Dr. Madeleine KIM, the Museum of Oriental Ceramics, Osaka is now
the world's foremost center for the appreciation and research of Korean
ceramics outside of Korea itself."
Leonard Smith on wed 10 aug 05
On 8/8/05 9:08 PM, "Overall's" wrote:
> "mr. uchida could not stand mashiko pots.
> he called them `korean farm pots`. he said
> that they had no place in the modern world "
>
> HEY!
> I resemble that remark
> (being part Korean and Hawaiian
> and Scotch, English and Irish, too..
> acronym: SHIEK)
>
> Kim Overall
> Houston, TX
Oh Kim!!!
My wee gran is turning in her grave, you drink "scotch", as all good "scots"
do.
Leonard Smith
Rosedale Street Gallery
2A Rosedale Street
Dulwich Hill NSW Australia 2203
Email: Leonard@rosedalestreetgallery.com
http://www.rosedalestreetgallery.com
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