mel jacobson on mon 15 aug 05
i think bill has it right...pressure treated wood and paint
do not always mix.
.....
a piece of corrugated metal roofing material
hung over the kiln will help.
in fact...cheap metal roofing is a great shield.
just nail it up...put some spacers behind it and you
have solved one big problem.
i do not think you need some expensive hood system.
get a nice box fan and suspend it from the ceiling.
just turn it on.
in fact. get three of them. goodwill fans.
i use old small fans....sorta throw away fans.
i got one from a de/humidfier...one from a big old stereo.
it cannot be more than four inches.
but, it moves air around.
i have one in each corner of my kiln room.
when it is -36 dgrsF with a thirty mile an hour wind...my
wooden building is a god send.
i just open a door and wheel the pots to the kiln.
nice.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
http://home.comcast.net/~figglywig/clayart.htm
for gail's year book.
Ingeborg Foco on mon 15 aug 05
Mel,
My roof decking is ordinary rough sawn plywood and the support beams are
some kind of engineered laminated beam. The paint failed first on the beam
and now all over the plywood as well. I do not have pressure treated lumber
up on the ceiling just the framework holding the bug screens is pressure
treated. I live in Florida and the screen is all that is between me and the
snakes and bugs trying to get in. In the winter when it is cold and I am
firing, well cold is all relative, the snakes snuggle up close to the kiln
area on the loading dock. It's the screen that keeps them out...most of the
time. The outside roof is metal and I think it is called 5V, panels that
are screwed down.
I have stainless steel metal bestos pipe sitting on top of the brick chimney
and of course it is the metal bestos that goes thru the roof . I feel I
have adequate clearance (air space) between the metal bestos pipe and the
plywood cut out.
When I contracted the building to be constructed, I specified round turbine
fans to be installed up on the highest point to help evacuate the hot air.
They work without electricity and I thought it was a good idea. The project
manager talked me out of having them installed because he said they don't
work very well.
I like the idea of just hanging some sheet metal over and above the kiln
area. It would clearly be more economical as well as easier to construct.
Mel, do you think any thickness will work or would you recommend something
specific, some specific kind of metal? Is corrugated better because it
isn't flat?
This conversation is sure timely for me because I have been giving this fire
business a great deal of though and vowed not to start the upcoming tourist
season without doing something to make me feel safer and sleep better at
night.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
> i think bill has it right...pressure treated wood and paint
> do not always mix.
> .....
> a piece of corrugated metal roofing material
> hung over the kiln will help.
> in fact...cheap metal roofing is a great shield.
> just nail it up...put some spacers behind it and you
> have solved one big problem.
> i do not think you need some expensive hood system.
> get a nice box fan and suspend it from the ceiling.
> just turn it on.
> in fact. get three of them. goodwill fans.
>
>
Wayne Seidl on tue 16 aug 05
Ingeborg:
Your project manager lied to you. I have (2 of) those turbines on
my roof (for a 1000 cu ft attic space) and they work like a dream.
You do need a bit of a breeze to get them spinning, but they will
vent (by convection alone) even if still.
For Christmas, I attach plastic pink flamingoes to ours with little
Santa hats on them. The neighbors are amused watching them spin
around, and it confuses the white cap pigeons that like to poop on
my roof.
If you are going to have them installed, specify "externally braced"
and be sure that they come with caps. You're going to want to
remove them when you put up your hurricane shutters (and cap the
hole.) Insect screen can be installed over the hole on the inside,
if bugs are a problem in your area.
You can use the 5V crimp roof panels on the inside of the roof as a
heat shield as well. Just mount it on short chain (as the Mayor
suggested) or some other type standoff to keep it off the wood.
(talk to your electrician about using "all-thread" (threaded rod
favored by electricians for suspending stuff from ceilings in FL).
S/He might have some shorter hunks you can get for free.) You can
paint 5V crimp any color you like, and it (usually) won't peel.
Then you can ignore what is happening to the paint on the plywood...
forever .
Best,
Wayne Seidl
hoping the weather stays agreeable
and the storms stay away
Key West, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Ingeborg Foco
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:40 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: hoods/fire paint
Mel,
My roof decking is ordinary rough sawn plywood and the support beams
are
some kind of engineered laminated beam. The paint failed first on
the beam
and now all over the plywood as well. I do not have pressure
treated lumber
up on the ceiling just the framework holding the bug screens is
pressure
treated. I live in Florida and the screen is all that is between me
and the
snakes and bugs trying to get in. In the winter when it is cold and
I am
firing, well cold is all relative, the snakes snuggle up close to
the kiln
area on the loading dock. It's the screen that keeps them
out...most of the
time. The outside roof is metal and I think it is called 5V, panels
that
are screwed down.
I have stainless steel metal bestos pipe sitting on top of the brick
chimney
and of course it is the metal bestos that goes thru the roof . I
feel I
have adequate clearance (air space) between the metal bestos pipe
and the
plywood cut out.
When I contracted the building to be constructed, I specified round
turbine
fans to be installed up on the highest point to help evacuate the
hot air.
They work without electricity and I thought it was a good idea. The
project
manager talked me out of having them installed because he said they
don't
work very well.
I like the idea of just hanging some sheet metal over and above the
kiln
area. It would clearly be more economical as well as easier to
construct.
Mel, do you think any thickness will work or would you recommend
something
specific, some specific kind of metal? Is corrugated better because
it
isn't flat?
This conversation is sure timely for me because I have been giving
this fire
business a great deal of though and vowed not to start the upcoming
tourist
season without doing something to make me feel safer and sleep
better at
night.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
> i think bill has it right...pressure treated wood and paint
> do not always mix.
> .....
> a piece of corrugated metal roofing material
> hung over the kiln will help.
> in fact...cheap metal roofing is a great shield.
> just nail it up...put some spacers behind it and you
> have solved one big problem.
> i do not think you need some expensive hood system.
> get a nice box fan and suspend it from the ceiling.
> just turn it on.
> in fact. get three of them. goodwill fans.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
__________
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melpots@pclink.com.
Ingeborg Foco on tue 16 aug 05
Wayne said "Ingeborg, your project manager lied to you. I have (2 of)
those turbines on
my roof (for a 1000 cu ft attic space) and they work like a dream.
You do need a bit of a breeze to get them spinning, but they will
vent (by convection alone) even if still."
I should have known not to listen to a 29 year old on his first big job
especially since I see them all over the buildings around here.
I have a little bit of a problem picturing 5V metal and how to hang it.
Since it comes in panels, how would you connect the sections in order to
hang them from the ceiling? Or is this where you would leave an air gap to
keep air moving? I have some panels cluttering my loading dock left over
from the initial construction so could use them and purchase some extra. On
the other hand, corrugated metal is probably less expensive than 5V.
Clearly I have to get to town to look at all of the options.
I won't be hiring anyone to install the turbines or the sheet metal. So,
why do you have to remove them for hurricanes? I'm not too crazy about
going up on the roof on a routine basis.
Didn't take my metal bestos chimney down (thought about it but ran out of
time) and it held up for 4 hurricanes last year Charley and Francis being
worse.
My trees were uprooted and broken but the pipe held up.
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
Wayne Seidl on tue 16 aug 05
-----Original Message-----
From: Ingeborg Foco [mailto:ifoco@earthlink.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:22 AM
To: wjsvt@sover.net
Subject: Re: Re: hoods/fire paint
I should have known not to listen to a 29 year old on his first big
job
especially since I see them all over the buildings around here.
I have a little bit of a problem picturing 5V metal and how to hang
it.
Since it comes in panels, how would you connect the sections in
order to
hang them from the ceiling? Or is this where you would leave an air
gap to
keep air moving? I have some panels cluttering my loading dock left
over
from the initial construction so could use them and purchase some
extra. On
the other hand, corrugated metal is probably less expensive than 5V.
Clearly I have to get to town to look at all of this)
___________
You can install one of two ways: If you can manage it, you can
sheet metal screw the panels together (maybe 2 panels at a time) and
hang it as a unit, starting at one end, lifting it onto "S" hooks
for holes drilled in the edges of the panels. That's a pain in the
butt, being so unwieldy and heavy. And don't get me started on how
sharp those sheets are, I'll show you the scars.
You can install the panels individually, wiring them into place
using light chain, or wire such as connects the tracks on suspended
ceilings, being sure that the panels overlap (that's what those V
Crimps are for, BTW) and then screw them together if you want, or
not, as you see fit.
David Hendley had some excellent advice about leaving gaps at the
edges and not covering the entire ceiling, so that air can flow in
and out. In a 10X10 space, I would leave about 6 inches on the edge
(to the wall) all the way around.
__________
I won't be hiring anyone to install the turbines or the sheet metal.
So, why do you have to remove them for hurricanes? I'm not too
crazy about going up on the roof on a routine basis.
Didn't take my metal bestos chimney down (thought about it but ran
out of time) and it held up for 4 hurricanes last year Charley and
Francis being the worst. I had trees uprooted and figured the pipe
was gone but it was still on the roof and not bent either.
_____________
I was told by my contractor (who turned out to be a jack*ss) that
the turbines would rip off in a hurricane wind, since those things
are designed to "grab" wind the way they're designed. That makes
sense to me. I have to go up on my roof to install the shutters for
the clerestory windows (5), so removing and capping them while I'm
up there is not a big deal...I'm there anyway. I've seen people
simply cover them with plastic sheeting/tarps, and lash it all down,
and they survived storms too, so I think it's more to keep the wind
from blowing rain into them. Also (and I don't know how important
this is, or how much it matters) there is the question of negative
air pressure. Hurricane winds put an awful strain on windows and
doors, trying to blow them in. Adding the suction created by the
madly spinning turbines might contribute to window or door failure,
and we both know what can happen after that...there goes the roof.
Me, I'll keep removing the turbines, and do a lot of praying .
Even with the extra work, I still would install them. The turbines
do keep the temperature of the attic about 20 degrees cooler, and
that keeps my AC bill down. My neighbor installed one of those
electric attic vents instead. His bill didn't drop more than $5,
because the damn fan is running constantly. My electric bill went
down $40/month, which is nothing to sneeze at.
I don't know how inclined I'm going to be to go up on the roof in my
60s, but for now at 50 I can still manage it...as long as I don't
look down LOL. Maybe I can get Dolita to do it for me...she'll be
young for decades yet.
Best,
Wayne
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