Mary/Adams on fri 19 aug 05
Thanks for all the good info. Mainly I learned that the new clay from
companies has the air bubbles removed. That is consistent with what I am
experiencing. It is only on the recycled and the clay I've mixed myself.
I have now been doing ceramics for over a year and have taken classes (and
will continue taking them) and still my kneading is awkward. I think it is
because of being left-handed. Just cannot seem to get that swirling that I
see done. My instructor insists that I do everything right handed (wheel,
kneading, etc).
Good data, though, to wedge for 15 seconds. I've just been throwing it down
3 or 4 times and thinking that's it.
Again, 40 books and they have not told me these significant details. Thanks
again.
Mary
Michael Wendt on fri 19 aug 05
Mary,
Despite what Snail said, stack and slam wedging will improve the uniformity
of clay without adding bubbles IF certain procedures are followed.
1) spray the cloth table surface with water to improve the ease of rejoining
the cut pieces during slamming.
2) make sure you don't dent the joining faces during handling as this will
introduce pockets of air.
3) let the joining start by slamming forcefully at one edge and advancing
across the face rather than laying the piece on the other and then slamming.
This slightly oblique slam ejects air from the joint and "spits" if you are
doing it right.
4) invert the piece and slam the other face hard enough to return it to the
pre-doubling height for the next cut and slam.
5) turn the piece 90 degrees each time so that the cuts occur at right
angles to the previous cut.
6) be sure that all the laminations are parallel to each other much like the
sheets of wood veneer in a sheet of plywood.
Why stack and slam rather than ram's horn or spiral wedge?
I can take 12.5 lbs of red clay and 12.5 lbs of white clay and quickly wire
wedge them into a uniform mass.Can anyone in this group make the same claim
about either of the other methods?
I have tried this with the other methods and it is murder to try to spiral
wedge 25 lbs of clay when compared to stack and slam wire wedging.
The reason wire wedging by lamination works is the power of doubling. 1x2=2,
2x2=4, 4x2=8, ...
At just 10 doublings, there are over 1000 layers
at 20 doublings there are over 1,000,000 layers
at 30 doublings there are over 1,000,000,000 layers.
try it yourself and see.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Mary wrote:
Thanks for all the good info. Mainly I learned that the new clay from
companies has the air bubbles removed. That is consistent with what I am
experiencing. It is only on the recycled and the clay I've mixed myself.
I have now been doing ceramics for over a year and have taken classes (and
will continue taking them) and still my kneading is awkward. I think it is
because of being left-handed. Just cannot seem to get that swirling that I
see done. My instructor insists that I do everything right handed (wheel,
kneading, etc).
Good data, though, to wedge for 15 seconds. I've just been throwing it down
3 or 4 times and thinking that's it.
Again, 40 books and they have not told me these significant details. Thanks
again.
Mary
Steve Slatin on fri 19 aug 05
Mary --
I'm also left-handed, but when wedging it really makes
no difference. I never learned the 'ramshead' and
don't like the slice'n'whack process, so I only do
twist wedging. My experience is that if I do at least
100 presses with it, I have very little air left in
the clay. Sometimes I don't count, I just wedge until
the clay feels dense and flexible.
With twist wedging, the hardest part for beginners
seems to be the twist -- turning a consistent amount.
If you do it right, you don't need to press down on
the clay too much, mostly you roll the clay as you
take that little half-step forward, then lift and
twist as you take the corresponding step back.
Like so many other things, it seems to work better
with the knees slightly bent.
Best wishes -- Steve S
--- Mary/Adams wrote:
> Thanks for all the good info. Mainly I learned that
> the new clay from
> companies has the air bubbles removed. That is
> consistent with what I am
> experiencing. It is only on the recycled and the
> clay I've mixed myself.
>
>
Steve Slatin --
Drove downtown in the rain
9:30 on a Tuesday night
Just to check out the
Late night record shop
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claybair on fri 19 aug 05
Mary,
In the 2 postings you have written about the air bubbles
you have used the work "kneading". In kneading bread the
desired result is putting air bubbles into the dough. If you are
kneading the clay you may be adding air bubbles instead of removing then.
When wedging clay you are trying to remove air bubbles.
The clay should be sliding against itself as it rotates.
I'm sorry to hear that the instructor insists you do everything right
handed.
You will find that there is no right or wrong way. It's more like best way
for you personally to achieve the desired result. That will come with
experience.
I have found that being ambidextrous frequently poses a challenge but it
all sorts out
after a while.
Get some basic pottery videos, DVD's at your local library. Take some
workshops
given by potters. Watch carefully..... I remember watching Linda Christensen
wedge clay. It was a workshop I attended in my 2nd year in clay........I
finally got it then.
After watching many potters you will see diverse techniques potters use to
get the same effect. It's definitely not "one size fits all" but does take
practice.
Gayle Bair - so I found I can write upside-down and backwards...!raf em ekat
ylerus lliw taht lliks A
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Mary/Adams
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:54 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Thanks for the bubble info
Thanks for all the good info. Mainly I learned that the new clay from
companies has the air bubbles removed. That is consistent with what I am
experiencing. It is only on the recycled and the clay I've mixed myself.
I have now been doing ceramics for over a year and have taken classes (and
will continue taking them) and still my kneading is awkward. I think it is
because of being left-handed. Just cannot seem to get that swirling that I
see done. My instructor insists that I do everything right handed (wheel,
kneading, etc).
Good data, though, to wedge for 15 seconds. I've just been throwing it down
3 or 4 times and thinking that's it.
Again, 40 books and they have not told me these significant details. Thanks
again.
Mary
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Jennifer Boyer on fri 19 aug 05
I would just put the left handedness issue out of your mind. I've been
a left handed production potter doing it all the same way that righties
do for 30 + years and it's all fine. There must be something going on
with your wedging technique. Try switching to rams head and skip
spiraling and the slicing. There's no law that says you have to spiral
wedge. See if that helps.
I actually have a theory that lefties have an advantage throwing since
our dominant hand is inside the pot. The inside hand has a big job to
do all the way through the throwing of a pot.
The only thing that ever bothers me in the least about being lefty on
a counter clockwise wheel is that you have to hold your trimming tools
a bit backwards...
Take Care
Jennifer, left handed, footed and eyed..... ALL LEFTY ALL THE TIME
On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:53 AM, Mary/Adams wrote:
> Thanks for all the good info. Mainly I learned that the new clay from
> companies has the air bubbles removed. That is consistent with what I
> am
> experiencing. It is only on the recycled and the clay I've mixed
> myself.
>
> I have now been doing ceramics for over a year and have taken classes
> (and
> will continue taking them) and still my kneading is awkward. I think
> it is
> because of being left-handed. Just cannot seem to get that swirling
> that I
> see done. My instructor insists that I do everything right handed
> (wheel,
> kneading, etc).
>
> Good data, though, to wedge for 15 seconds. I've just been throwing
> it down
> 3 or 4 times and thinking that's it.
>
> Again, 40 books and they have not told me these significant details.
> Thanks
> again.
>
> Mary
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Snail Scott on sat 20 aug 05
At 11:34 AM 8/19/2005 -0700, Michael W wrote:
>Mary,
>Despite what Snail said, stack and slam wedging will improve the uniformity
>of clay without adding bubbles IF certain procedures are followed...
Thanks. I didn't mean to imply that cut-and-slam
wedging is inherently a bad idea, only that it
(like other wedging methods) might be the source
of some of Mary's bubbles if done improperly. I
didn't take the time to discuss what the proper
technique would be, though, so I'm glad you did.
-Snail
Snail Scott on sun 21 aug 05
At 07:53 AM 8/19/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>Good data, though, to wedge for 15 seconds. I've just been throwing it down
>3 or 4 times and thinking that's it.
I wouldn't go by that number, unless you wedge as
fast as the person who cited it. Wedge until you
can't feel those little bubbles pop as you work.
You will also feel a change in the way the clay
behaves, though it will be less obvious with de-
aired clay than non-deaired, homemade or reclaimed
clay. Especially with homemade or recycled clay, it
could take you a minute or even more for one lump,
and longer the larger the lump is. Practice confers
speed, but I'm betting that at this stage, you're
still developing a rhythm. Develop a consistent
effective pattern first, THEN speed. Following
someone else's numbers may only mislead, while
you're still learning.
Not sure what you mean by "throwing it down three
or four times", though. You mean after cutting it to
check? Or when? Since you said you were wedging in a
ram's horn technique (in your previous post), I
assume you're not (as some folks do) relying solely
on cutting and slamming to remove bubbles. Clarify?
-Snail
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